The Random Transformers Image Thread
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Well, once we get the reflexive stances on a debate from early 1987 out of the way, this actually leads to a more intriguing deviation than the one that IDW published.
Think about it. Unicron is presumably still on his way, Optimus has no particular reason to think that he will be the One able to do anything about that (in all fairness, nobody in-universe -- save perhaps Alpha Trion, who had bowed out some time before -- had any idea what to do about a Unicron-scale threat), and while Megatron is presumably no more (as in the published Deviations), so too are many Autobots -- including one that was supposed to fix the larger plot on his journey from fool to hero.
So how does the universe correct itself from this uh-oh moment? Can it even do so?
(I mean, given how similar stories have gone, Optimus might open the Matrix but not survive Unicron's destruction, leading to two effectively leaderless -- at least, with less of a clear succession -- factions. Ultra Magnus vs. Shockwave for Season 3, anyone?)
Counterpoint: I wasn't part of ATT, so it's just an obscure in-joke known mainly by those who were there at the time, who are now far outweighed by the rest of the fandom in this day and age."Died to an hero."
Fandom is nothing without its traditions, after all.
I simply went with the original, reverent version that doesn't mock the hero's sacrifice.
I mean... I just thought it was a funny picture.
I'm over fandom sacred cows and the arguments around such.
It's just a bit of comedy.
I'm over fandom sacred cows and the arguments around such.
It's just a bit of comedy.
Well,in all fairness, it wasn't MG-Dinobot's fault that he was obliged to translate his script from (Quebecois?) French to English. He appeared to have done so word-by-word rather than with an eye to grammar or sentence cohesion, but if he hadn't... Well, the World's Worst Fanfics brought me much joy in dark times. We could use that again, I think.
Oh, I was eager to skip arguments over sacred cows and what sauce to use on them (though I suspected others might not or might respond with "Here we go again"), I just said "Okay, cool premise for a What If -- now what comes next?"
The historian in me says that "what happened happened and anything else is counter factual."
Now it's fiction ofc but still... there is a path where we explore the canon of a fictional universe as the history of that world. Perhaps it could have gone differently but... it didn't.
The mythology nerd in me says that since TFTM deals with destiny and godlike entities dealing in prophecy... Hot Rod was always going to live because it was his divinely-ordained destiny to live.
An alternate take on that is that if Hot Rod dies at the Battle of Autobot City in that timeline then he wasn't, by definition, the "Chosen One." And therefore someone else- Optimus, Magnus, Jazz for all we know- is the one who fulfills the prophecy.
Stories like TFTM have the built in narrative of "destiny" and "prophecy," and therefore any alternate timeline shenanigans need to account for that.
Even the most adamant atheist, after all, had to concede that in the fictional world of the movie, there are divine forces at play. So... it becomes a matter of G-d most definitely not needing a starship.
"What could have been" is a bit of a beaten-up horse in speculative fiction circles these days, but I admit I used to be a big fan of Harry Turtledove's works in that field.
Since Wheelie was slated to be the new kid-appeal character, Bumblebee (who looks up to Optimus) might have been an interesting choice. If they were worried about scale then Sideswipe (who was Hot Rod before Hot Rod, personality wise) seems a curiously not-considered-by-The-Powers option.
True, although Rhythms of Darkness and Regeneration One showed us a universe where Rodimus failed, and his remains served as Galvatron's therapy doll for a few years. (Though AVP would assert that the destruction of Cybertron/Vector Sigma led not to the universe collapsing but in the Liege Maximo becoming more moral, leading to his doing the sacrifice play to stop Unicron. So, your point still stands about the lack of starships required.)
I am too! I really liked his Southern Victory series, which seemed to be going with "what if the CSA made it to WWII and were the Nazis?" until he got a bit lazy and started just copying and pasting German WWII history... but in his defense he turned it around by the end.
Also fun fact... originally he planned for the CSA/UK/France Entente to win WWI, with Germany going down the Nazi path as it did IRL, and the US going fascist alongside it. The idea was that Black soldiers fighting for the Confederate cause would have thawed race relations in the CSA and made it a more open and liberal society, but Turtledove decided at the last second of the WWI arc that such a radical transformation in the CSA in such a short time was not realistic. So he switched gears and had the Germany/Austro-Hungarian/USA Central Powers win, to push the CSA in a more fascist direction, as it made more sense given where each country was.
This is why the US victory over Canada and the CSA in WWI is kinda an asspull involving tanks when realistically tanks weren't that effective in WWI, and why Gordon McSweeney gets so much focus until he abruptly dies. He's being set up as a US Hitler. Once Turtledove decided to swap the US and CS' places in the overall narrative McSweeney dies and Jake Featherston, a relatively minor CS viewpoint character, gets promoted to CS Hitler status.
Alternate history of alternate history. Fascinating or a rabbit hole? YOU DECIDE! Anyway that's a rant... but I always love talking Timeline-191. One of my favourite book series, Turtledove's trap of copying and pasting Nazi history instead of playing with it to do something unique aside.
It is really fascinating that Hasbro chose to go with all new characters for the 1986 lineup instead of "promoting" existing ones. Like... the idea was to move old toys off the shelves and replace them with new toys, right? New characters isn't necessarily a part of that. And they did dip their toes in that water, with Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps technically being upgraded older characters in new bodies with new names.
So yeah... making Bumblebee the hero of TFTM with a brand new toy to celebrate his new main character/leader status could have been really fun.
True... and there was a Star Wars "What If?" story about Luke failing to blow up the Death Star and what that leads to.
I guess it falls into the nature of mythology, prophecy, etc... These stories in antiquity were meant to impart lessons and promote the social values of the day... "what if Moses failed to lead the Israelites out of Egypt?" or "what if Zeus failed to usurp Chronus?" tend to end up not working because divine forces are in motion. Things are happening as they do because they're meant to.
TFTM, by playing with prophecy and divine hero status tropes, tends to follow the same path. IDW's Deviations fails not just because it's one manchild's fanfic about why Hot Rod is a poopey head (although that is part of why it fails), but also because it doesn't deal in good faith with the central plot- which is that fate/Primus/the Matrix sees Hot Rod as its destined hero and therefore he must be in position to be that hero.
Deviations attempts to have its cake and eat it too... by having Optimus live but also technically having Hot Rod save the day via the Matrix before dying but this is just lazy.
If the premis is a true alternate history... well... G-ddamnit Tux, you're right! The joke image I posted would be better! Play with it, where destiny and the Matrix and Primus or whoever has a totally different end game in mind in this timeline. If you're rewriting TFTM where Hot Rod isn't the Chosen One, commit to him not being that.
Let's also not forget that we now know that TFTM first began development before Season 1 of the cartoon even first began airing, so there was even less emotional attachment to the established 1984-1985 characters with the writers than there was with the fans during the movie's development process, which was happening concurrently to but still separately from the development of the cartoon's second season. So, the hero of the movie was likely always going to be a new character with a new toy.
The decision to make the movie star all new characters likely stemmed from the corporate mindset of "Every toy is its own character, so each new toy is a new character," which was true during the 1984-1985 run of the toyline. While the movie did choose to upgrade a few old characters into either new forms or new characters based on the new toys, the toy bios didn't reflect that. Even Rodimus Prime's toy bio makes no mention of his having once been Hot Rod despite his blatantly obvious resemblance to Hot Rod (seriously, anyone who only bought the toys but never got to see the movie, watch the cartoon, or read any of the comics or books could have easily headcanon'd Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime simply being brothers or father-and-son going solely by the toys and bios alone).
I mean, honestly, they wanted to kill off Optimus Prime, of all characters. If that didn't scream corporate cynicism and complete emotional detachment from the products they were selling, I don't know what else does.
The decision to make the movie star all new characters likely stemmed from the corporate mindset of "Every toy is its own character, so each new toy is a new character," which was true during the 1984-1985 run of the toyline. While the movie did choose to upgrade a few old characters into either new forms or new characters based on the new toys, the toy bios didn't reflect that. Even Rodimus Prime's toy bio makes no mention of his having once been Hot Rod despite his blatantly obvious resemblance to Hot Rod (seriously, anyone who only bought the toys but never got to see the movie, watch the cartoon, or read any of the comics or books could have easily headcanon'd Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime simply being brothers or father-and-son going solely by the toys and bios alone).
I mean, honestly, they wanted to kill off Optimus Prime, of all characters. If that didn't scream corporate cynicism and complete emotional detachment from the products they were selling, I don't know what else does.
The fascinating thing about that is that Hasbro was only seeing the success they were seeing because they figured out that likeable characters would get kids invested. GI Joe proved this approach worked, and Transformers confirmed it.
On one hand the upper brass at Hasbro were all old heads from the era when this wasn't the case. Kids had no emotional attachment to Rock'em Sock'em Robots, why would they have any attachment to Optimus Prime? So that cynical old way of thinking makes a bit of sense when you realize who was ultimately calling the shots.
Still... that doesn't fully explain the gaps in logic. GI Joe's relaunch and Transformers were successfully built off of the idea that giving kids characters attached to cool toys would get them invested. So to then go "eh they won't care if we kill off these characters" comes off as incredibly dumb in addition to being cynical.
Like... did these people not realize what had brought them to the dance?
Anyway in relation to the $15 price increase to Armada Nemesis Prime and the Star Sabre...
Thank you for the impeccable setup for that one.
That's a what-if I've long wished to see fleshed out.
That is also, apparently becuase of GIJoe. The GIJoe was produced first, and they made the descision to kill Duke, so Hasbro felt what was good for the goose was good for the gander; and wanted a meaningful death in TF as well, Hasbro's fault here, if this is true; is not realizing the age disaparity between audiances. TFs attracted more younger kids then Joes did.
