I’m still surprised at, with how much love the design team has given Victory, we’ve yet to see them build on the Power of the Prime’s Duocon engineering to give use Multiforce, in some fashion.
I've said it before, I will say it again (over and over):
Sell two or three Core-size figures at the Deluxe or Voyager price point as Versus Packs. Gives kids (or kids at heart) instant play options right out of the box, minimizes multiple size points in an increasingly competitive shelf area, and might give some leeway for extra accessories (macguffins?) or some appropriate size variances for characters (much like the Legion/Commander size variances from the DotM/Prime Cyberverse line).
I usually never get bigger than deluxe figures because of price and availability: If they did core scale boxes with multiple figures, I would be all over that. Especially a beast war box.
I never really got over my minicon addiction.
I never really got over my minicon addiction.
I go right back to the line idea I had in the "propose a TF toyline" thread, which was built entirely around Legion and Core class and the like. I really think this would be a fun direction to go in for a while. And the redeco/retool friendliness of G1 (and beyond, as the Legacy lines have shown to varying degrees) allows lots of opportunities for profit.
IMO core needs to fix its identity. Either dedicate it to small versions of mainline characters or small characters, not this weird hodgepodge.
IMO Core is just too expensive for what you get nowadays.
I get that's just Transformers in general but Core being the small size-class just makes it feel the most noticeable.
I get that's just Transformers in general but Core being the small size-class just makes it feel the most noticeable.
To be fair, I think Core stuck to that conceit better than Legends ended up doing. The entire 2013 Legends slate were 4 packs, each with one of the “big 4”…and they sold fine FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. Then it shifted to “small characters” and sales seemed to start dropping off.
So we got Micromasters, which didn’t sell well at all, so they went back to Core. And my observation has been that, when Core stuck to “small main characters”…it did well. What bogged down the line? Iguanas, Bomb-burst, Vertebreak, Dracodon, and while you can make the argument Grimlock is a core character, the rest of the Dinobots really don’t fall into that category as strongly. So we spent 2023 with a bunch of grey, gold and black figures that AREN’T the most popular Dinobot bogging down retail. There’s a reason its taken almost 4 years to get the entire set of Dinobots as Leader figures…
I feel at least part of the size issue comes from Hasbro’s (or at least, the current regime) sensitivity to “visual value”. For a while, all the “kid’s toys” for Marvel were 5-6” tall. So, during the Infinity War and Endgame sales periods, you had figures comparatively sized to the much pricier Marvel Legends for half the price. In some cases, the kids lines managed to get key characters to market before Legends.
Then they shifted back to “moderately articulated” figures at the 4” scale. So now, you have 4“ at $10-ish, 12” Titan at 12-15, and 6” Collector product at $25 and up. There is a much clearer “segmentation” than there was.
I get the feeling that’s partly what’s at play in the sub deluxe price point.
I agree with the price/value comment, and if I were running things, I’d get rid of the sub-deluxe price point or shift it to something like this:
Remember the, generally, pretty nice figures that were done for Rise of the Beast’s Weaponizer assortment? 4.5-ish inches tall, decently articulated and designed (if lacking a little paint or flair) and unburdeoned by a gimmick? Basically Warriors without the bull?
Do a line like that. I know from what I’ve learned over the years that SIZE isn’t the dominant source of cost, it’s complexity and weight.
Call it “Generations Icons”, target a $15 price point. Core was only squeezing out little over half a dozen figures a year anyway, so you have MORE than enough “core characters” to cycle through for years.
I like the spot being used for smaller characters (Exosuit Spike, Noah, and Mohawk are all nice) rather than "here's the same characters in a smaller scale". But then I was also fine with the G1 Minibots being Legends class rather than all getting bumped up to Deluxe.
Either way, I think it'd be easier to market the scale if it were one of those things rather than trying to be a venue for both, which it's been since Kingdom.
Either way, I think it'd be easier to market the scale if it were one of those things rather than trying to be a venue for both, which it's been since Kingdom.
I stand by the idea that the loss of the Minibots at that scale crippled the size class. Well, that and having too many double dips of characters in both the movie and generations aesthetics at the same time. Also it would have been nice to see some souped up minicons at Core class, but I probably would have been more excited for that than most people.
If it got them the parts count to get an Armada Perceptor that could actually pose, or a Requiem Blaster that doesn't fall apart if you breath at it too hard, I'd be down for it.
I wanted to see the modern Micromasters continue.
FWIW, to me the biggest draw of the Core class was getting TF figures roughly in scale with the small Gobots figures. Granted, we've gotten more Gobots homages at Deluxe than I ever imagined we would, but I've always figured it would be easier to get Transformers that scaled with Gobots rather than new Gobots scaled to Transformers.
I have liked Core, alot of cool figures came out in that size class (finally got my tiny Soundwave, Ironhide, and Ratchet!), but I would be fine with simpler transformations on "small versions of bigger figures" in the Legends of Cybertron vein.
I have liked Core, alot of cool figures came out in that size class (finally got my tiny Soundwave, Ironhide, and Ratchet!), but I would be fine with simpler transformations on "small versions of bigger figures" in the Legends of Cybertron vein.
Yeah, on thinking on it more, the Core class should ideally be its own scale since apart from a handful of characters, there's just not enough small characters with name recognition to carry the line. If the boom of tiny unofficial toys shows anything, it's that people are willing to pay for smaller scale versions of the main cast.
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While I like the smaller guys being at a small size; I much prefer Core being "playset sized" versions of the bigger guys. Even if they aren't to scale, they'll still look good around Titan Base modes and its easiler to set up battle scenes with.
I would be totally fine with them being their own subline/capsule/whatever, even if they had to be two packs, like someone else suggested .Becuase two guys at $25-30 with some accessories would be great... hell, resurect the old "Battle in a Box" title for it. Two small figures of opposite factions. Maybe have one big name and one lesser name, but give them a bit of fiction, maybe a SS-eque diarama, etc. I feel that would off set the cost since they are no longer "smaller figure vs bigger figure" Its "small boxset" sold around the same price as the regular big figures. Its increase their value to consumers, imo.
I would be totally fine with them being their own subline/capsule/whatever, even if they had to be two packs, like someone else suggested .Becuase two guys at $25-30 with some accessories would be great... hell, resurect the old "Battle in a Box" title for it. Two small figures of opposite factions. Maybe have one big name and one lesser name, but give them a bit of fiction, maybe a SS-eque diarama, etc. I feel that would off set the cost since they are no longer "smaller figure vs bigger figure" Its "small boxset" sold around the same price as the regular big figures. Its increase their value to consumers, imo.
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I agree. This is a big part of why the T30 range started out with small main cast members iirc, to go with Metroplex. And we've been getting more and more such city/basebots for them to go with in the years since. Idk if they're specifically avoiding splitting or diluting the buying audience, because a new scale is a whole nother "reboot" they could market, making people buy everyone over again.
Aside: while it's too late now to bemoan the Deluxifying of the Minibots (especially as some like Warpath have been solidly for the better), I do wish we'd gotten POTP Battletrap style figures for Flywheels/Skytread's halves.
Aside: while it's too late now to bemoan the Deluxifying of the Minibots (especially as some like Warpath have been solidly for the better), I do wish we'd gotten POTP Battletrap style figures for Flywheels/Skytread's halves.
What made Cyberverse work for years was the 'verse' part. They were smaller and cheaper toys that didn't offer everything that their Deluxe and above counterparts did, but they leaned heavily into diorama building, which let them offer something the larger toys didn't.
Prime Wars Legends ditched that, but they tied in with their lines' gimmicks, so they were still relevant.
Siege Micromasters really didn't fit the line's theme, and weren't super great toys in their own right. Earthrise almost fixed it by adding the Micromaster Bases, but unfortunately their associated Micromasters were punted into a 10-pack instead of being available at retail, and that's when their associated Micromasters were made at all.
Core seemed like a return to the T30 model, and then the Ark said "Nah". I think that was quietly devastating. Aside from Rattrap, Core was immediately an irrelevant sideshow. It wasn't built around anything. It didn't complement the larger stuff. The line's own Titan was apathetic to it. It was just smaller and cheaper, but not even that cheap. The only hope for it at that point was character selection.
Good job with the character selection, Legacy. It started out as mostly repaints and repacks, and Pretenders. And the Pretenders were actually decent. But then Skullgrin immediately showed up and tossed out any notion that Core was going to be the basis for a Pretender collection going forwards. So Core still had no discernable hook.
Then Core turned into a sea of grey for a year, for the sake of a combiner we were incentivised not to buy because it was a lousy preview of a better toy we knew was coming.
Prime Wars Legends ditched that, but they tied in with their lines' gimmicks, so they were still relevant.
Siege Micromasters really didn't fit the line's theme, and weren't super great toys in their own right. Earthrise almost fixed it by adding the Micromaster Bases, but unfortunately their associated Micromasters were punted into a 10-pack instead of being available at retail, and that's when their associated Micromasters were made at all.
Core seemed like a return to the T30 model, and then the Ark said "Nah". I think that was quietly devastating. Aside from Rattrap, Core was immediately an irrelevant sideshow. It wasn't built around anything. It didn't complement the larger stuff. The line's own Titan was apathetic to it. It was just smaller and cheaper, but not even that cheap. The only hope for it at that point was character selection.
Good job with the character selection, Legacy. It started out as mostly repaints and repacks, and Pretenders. And the Pretenders were actually decent. But then Skullgrin immediately showed up and tossed out any notion that Core was going to be the basis for a Pretender collection going forwards. So Core still had no discernable hook.
Then Core turned into a sea of grey for a year, for the sake of a combiner we were incentivised not to buy because it was a lousy preview of a better toy we knew was coming.
Cyberverse is what I feel a lot people would like. We like the bigger more complex guys for being cool little puzzle boxes that are also a cool vehicle and action figure; but what we like as much if not a little more, is setting up awesome battles and diorama and such... and that is hard to do with the larger figures. Not impossible, but much more space is needed. Having Core size, or better Two different core sizes like Cyberverse did, becuase some guys should still be bigger even at small scale, gives the chance to do much bigger and impressive scenes. Titans and Combiners are almost made for Core class scale imo. And I dont mean things like Prime Abominous or Core Volcanicus (Both of who I like) but if you really want to replicate the imposing or impressive feel of Combiners from fiction, you put some core classes around even CW or POTP guys, and they start to feel as massive as they should be.
It doesn't have to be entirely its own thing due to this. There can still be some synergy with the main line. Like Jetfire to me would be SO much better if some of his gimmicks were designed for core class figures, like the 5mm handles being 3mm instead. His robot mode is fine for the regular line Deluxes and Voyagers, but his alt mode being scaled to core would give him more playability. Of course Core didn't exist back then, but its just an example of how regular main line releases could still have syngery with this "Battle in the Box" line. Have the occasional guys that are supposed to be big in Alt mode feel big my giving them ways to intereact with Cores as wells as ML.
Yeah, big missed opportunity there.
There's things that the Deluxe/Voyager/Leader size classes do really well. One of those is the potential for remolding far exceeding what is feasible at the Core/Legend/Legion scale; not saying it's impossible (Core Ironhide and Ratchet proved that, though I'm sure that was planned into the mold from the outset), just that the practicality for all the variations and deep cuts we've gotten recently simply isn't there. (Straxus, Xaaron & Flame, Minerva/Elita-1/Strongarm, Skids/Medix/Crankcase, etc)
Another is poseability, which is great for static displays or photocomics.
But if we're just talking playability, smaller, less complicated scales are the way to go. Being able to transform them quickly is a plus (raise your hand if your Transformers had to have a force field during transformation to keep your siblings or friends from taking them out while between modes), and being able to set up a battle in a relatively small space is a necessity for most of us. And that's not even getting into things like playsets and vehicles; I recently re-acquired a DotM Cyberverse Ark, and Haywire3 (who turned 6 today!) loves playing with it with his smaller Transformers and Gobots. (he's a kid after his daddy's heart!) Outside of Titans (which are not actually made for the purpose, and also pretty expensive) there's not really much in the way of playsets or vehicles in Transformers toylines these days, even though there is certainly plenty of fictional material to pull from; partly I believe this is because such things would only work well for scales smaller than Deluxe.
TLDR: Deluxe and larger figures as they currently exist make great display pieces, but I feel like there needs to be some form of Core scale figures that are better to play with.
Another is poseability, which is great for static displays or photocomics.
But if we're just talking playability, smaller, less complicated scales are the way to go. Being able to transform them quickly is a plus (raise your hand if your Transformers had to have a force field during transformation to keep your siblings or friends from taking them out while between modes), and being able to set up a battle in a relatively small space is a necessity for most of us. And that's not even getting into things like playsets and vehicles; I recently re-acquired a DotM Cyberverse Ark, and Haywire3 (who turned 6 today!) loves playing with it with his smaller Transformers and Gobots. (he's a kid after his daddy's heart!) Outside of Titans (which are not actually made for the purpose, and also pretty expensive) there's not really much in the way of playsets or vehicles in Transformers toylines these days, even though there is certainly plenty of fictional material to pull from; partly I believe this is because such things would only work well for scales smaller than Deluxe.
TLDR: Deluxe and larger figures as they currently exist make great display pieces, but I feel like there needs to be some form of Core scale figures that are better to play with.