Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: stock renders of upcoming Alpha Trion, Micronus, Flatline, Fireflight, Skydive, ++

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
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I just headcanon him as "Tronus" since the suffix -tron is used a lot in transformers. Megatron, Cybertron, Fisitron, Banzi-Tron, Computron, Magmatron
"Tronustron".

Anyway, all I really want from the 13 in fiction at this point is a story of the 13. Just, like... their heyday. Their creation, and coming together to fight off Unicron, and maybe whatever leads to them fading into myth. I want to see their story, not just hear about it.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Anyway, all I really want from the 13 in fiction at this point is a story of the 13. Just, like... their heyday. Their creation, and coming together to fight off Unicron, and maybe whatever leads to them fading into myth. I want to see their story, not just hear about it.
TransformersCovenantofPrimusCovers.jpg
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
IDW shown them to be frauds though James Roberts ignored them and went into an unknown pre-history and left it ambiguous whether the guiding hand were the real deal or a gestalt of outliers.
A few things...
IDW had three separate founder groups and it all got a bit wahoozy.
You had the Guiding Hand, who was Primus and his fellow gods.
Then the Knights of Cybertron.
And then the Thirteen.

The problem is that the KoC and Thirteen both exist in the same role, narratively, as the mortal founders of civilization after the Guiding Hand vanishes. So the KoC set the foundations for Cybertronian civilization, vanish, the planet reverts to barbarism, and then the Thirteen set the foundations for civilization again and this time it sticks, even after they all vanish.

While this can be seen as true to life (consider the fall of Rome at the start of the Medieval period) it creates a messy narrative and can read as unnecessary repetition of themes.
It would be one thing if IDW pulled a nu-BSG and tied this all in to the cycle of time, but they didn't and the KoC never got the exploitation they needed to flesh them out as their own thing. Instead they come off as a dry run for the Thirteen.

To the Thirteen themselves, IDW never denies that they existed in their continuity. They very clearly do. Instead IDW- Barber mostly as Roberts didn't start addressing this stuff directly until the end of the LL run- takes an Euhemerist approach. Where mortals and mortal events got mythologized into being divine or semi-divine through the passage of time.

It's not a bad take honestly, and I think Euhemerism as a concept works very well in a fictional setting (it even has its uses in trying to analyze myth in the contexts of history) but there's one flaw in how IDW chose to go about this...
Their timeline is super condensed when you consider Cybertronian lifespans.

Nova Prime, the first Prime post-Thirteen, is talked about as belonging to the realm of myth and legend... but he was also around when many characters in the present were still alive. Rewind even has a recording of one of his most famous speeches!
It's kind of hard to tell a story where the deeds of mortals are elevated to those of the gods through the passage of time when you still have people who saw the deeds of mortals first hand kicking around.

Most Euhemerist takes in fiction will either focus on the events as they happened with an epilogue showing how the story evolved and got mythologized by the end, or they'll focus on the present or future as characters discover the truth about whatever myth is central to the story.

IDW wanted to do both, and could have done both, but their own timeline makes it an awkward fit.

I had that, it's not a particularly good story. It's even below the Aligned novels in terms of quality IMO, and those weren't that great either. Stilted, overly dramatic, more of a retelling of a ponderous narrative than a true narrative itself.

And I get why. I get the feeling the intent was to kind of mirror a Biblical style of storytelling. Where there's less of a focus on dialogue and character growth and more dictation of Very Important Events. But it doesn't make for the most engaging experience.
 
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Donocropolis

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Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling. They're robots, so they don't need to have lifespans as short as ours, but make them have a natural life of maybe 500-1,000 years with a few outliers to keep things interesting. Long enough to be ancient by human standards but without the complications that arise from characters that are literally millions of years old.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling. They're robots, so they don't need to have lifespans as short as ours, but make them have a natural life of maybe 500-1,000 years with a few outliers to keep things interesting. Long enough to be ancient by human standards but without the complications that arise from characters that are literally millions of years old.
I feel like SkyBound shortening the Great War to two hundred years is a step in the right direction.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I had that, it's not a particularly good story. It's even below the Aligned novels in terms of quality IMO, and those weren't that great either. Stilted, overly dramatic, more of a retelling of a ponderous narrative than a true narrative itself.

And I get why. I get the feeling the intent was to kind of mirror a Biblical style of storytelling. Where there's less of a focus on dialogue and character growth and more dictation of Very Important Events. But it doesn't make for the most engaging experience.
And yet, Mark Maher won't stop glazing it just because it's a near-complete record of Cybertronian history.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
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Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling.
It can work, but you have to be willing to lean into the agelessness of it. The universe is over 18 billion years old; if Primus/Quintessons get started early enough there's time for multiple millennia-long generations to pass. Human history is only about 6000 years old (not even counting late pre-history, where people had complex tools and knowledge, but left no surviving records) --adjusting for scale you could easily have a Cybetronian timeline that's as elabourate and mysterious as our own.

In my head, Cybertronians tend to occupy the same space as Tolkien's elves or Lovecraft's Elder Things; their civilization has risen and fallen for aeons before we even existed as a species.

And yet, Mark Maher won't stop glazing it just because it's a near-complete record of Cybertronian history.
Oh Primus; it's the Prose Edda of Cybertron. Alpha Trion is our Snorri Sturluson.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
And yet, Mark Maher won't stop glazing it just because it's a near-complete record of Cybertronian history.
I kind of get why because it's the single most complete source of Cybertronian pre-history so if you want to explore that stuff the CoP is as good a place to start as any.

That doesn't make it good, though. I'd argue that the CoP is best used as a source of ideas to draw from, and change and expand upon as a particular story needs, rather than the etched in stone Way Things Are. Which is why I really like TFO's treatment of the mythology. They clearly used the CoP as a starting point, but changed things as they needed. And it's to the film's advantage.

I'd even argue that the current brand team is doing that with AotP, as limited as a story can be via a toyline. Already the figures of the Thirteen seem to have more thought and characterful design put into them than any of the art or prose in the CoP.

The CoP is a great broad slice layout to take ideas from, but it shouldn't be elevated to anything more than that, IMO.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Which is why I really like TFO's treatment of the mythology. They clearly used the CoP as a starting point, but changed things as they needed. And it's to the film's advantage.
It's funny you should say that. Josh Cooley was asked today at BotCon if he had read the CoP, and said he didn't. What he read was instead a PDF that was most likely the Binder.
 

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
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Oh, I've wanted to get that for years. Never happened, though.

I thought it was more of a sourcebook than a work of narrative fiction in itself, though. Like a series bible for the Aligned continuity?

So, back to once again just being told their story instead of seeing it unfold for ourselves, or no?

Either way, I'd still love to see some sort of series do something with it.

Okay, just looked it up on TFWiki, and it says it's Alpha Trion's telling of the tale.
 

lastmaximal

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I think the Binder is more along those lines. This was a fiction text written based on parameters set in the Binder/Bible.

Funny enough, this being a somewhat sacred text archiving the stories of their deities and early peoples, it's an in-universe Bible of sorts more than a series bible.
 

ZacWilliam1

Well-known member
Citizen
The Covenant book is the contents of the Binder written in a narrative form ostensibly by Alpha Trion as a History of the Transformers specifically For Humans. And (maybe to give them some wiggle room) IIRC Alpha Trion says somewhere at the beginning that he is playing loose and easy with the facts sometimes to help humans get the "big picture."

So it is intended to be the history of the Aligned U. told by an intentionally semi-unreliable narrator.


-ZacWilliam, personally I'm a huge fan of Mythology and Fantasy Literature so I love the 13 in theory. I think more and better could definitely be done with it. The Covenant has stuff I really like and stuff that definitely could be better. It's a mixed bag but I'm glad I own it.
 

Powered Convoy

Randy
Citizen
Hours later I'm still in denial about the colors the G2 Dinos wound up with. A red Slug and green Snarl would have been incredible.

Honestly I should be glad because I shouldn't be looking for reasons to get more large figures (and I'm half tempted by these anyway) but I've felt very strongly about those specific two color schemes for those dinos.

Still denial: maybe there'll be a running change that swaps the colors for just those sprues...

Anger: what a dumb thing to say, self
This was my preference as a kid too. We hunted for this configuration as the other setup was more easy to find. Thematically we thought it made more sense for Slag to be red. I recently learned what we saw as more common was indeed more common and I've accepted it as the likely outcome for the redecos prior to their reveal (ironically a friend gave us their G2 Dinobots in the 90's so we also had this color setup). So while I have a preference for the other way I accept and am very much looking forward to this.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
Transformers living for millions of years might be my favorite bit of "Some people making a kids cartoon pulled something out of their butts and now 40 years later we have to rationalize it" of Transformers. Some of that might have to do with my own mortality anxiety, as well as how I've noticed the mental phenomena of time appearing to go by faster as I get older. I just feel like there's lots of fun questions to answer that are posed by the very concept of a species that's reached a form of clinical immortality.

I might make a bigger post on my thoughts about it at some point.
 

DefaultOption

Sourball
Citizen
Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling.
The '4 million year' part of the time skip was only necessary as an explanation for the existence of the Dinobots, and then the cartoon came up with a different origin that wouldn't have required the massive time skip at all, so in the end it was almost entirely pointless outside a few issues of the Marvel comic.
 


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