Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: stock renders of upcoming Alpha Trion, Micronus, Flatline, Fireflight, Skydive, ++

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I just headcanon him as "Tronus" since the suffix -tron is used a lot in transformers. Megatron, Cybertron, Fisitron, Banzi-Tron, Computron, Magmatron
"Tronustron".

Anyway, all I really want from the 13 in fiction at this point is a story of the 13. Just, like... their heyday. Their creation, and coming together to fight off Unicron, and maybe whatever leads to them fading into myth. I want to see their story, not just hear about it.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Anyway, all I really want from the 13 in fiction at this point is a story of the 13. Just, like... their heyday. Their creation, and coming together to fight off Unicron, and maybe whatever leads to them fading into myth. I want to see their story, not just hear about it.
TransformersCovenantofPrimusCovers.jpg
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
IDW shown them to be frauds though James Roberts ignored them and went into an unknown pre-history and left it ambiguous whether the guiding hand were the real deal or a gestalt of outliers.
A few things...
IDW had three separate founder groups and it all got a bit wahoozy.
You had the Guiding Hand, who was Primus and his fellow gods.
Then the Knights of Cybertron.
And then the Thirteen.

The problem is that the KoC and Thirteen both exist in the same role, narratively, as the mortal founders of civilization after the Guiding Hand vanishes. So the KoC set the foundations for Cybertronian civilization, vanish, the planet reverts to barbarism, and then the Thirteen set the foundations for civilization again and this time it sticks, even after they all vanish.

While this can be seen as true to life (consider the fall of Rome at the start of the Medieval period) it creates a messy narrative and can read as unnecessary repetition of themes.
It would be one thing if IDW pulled a nu-BSG and tied this all in to the cycle of time, but they didn't and the KoC never got the exploitation they needed to flesh them out as their own thing. Instead they come off as a dry run for the Thirteen.

To the Thirteen themselves, IDW never denies that they existed in their continuity. They very clearly do. Instead IDW- Barber mostly as Roberts didn't start addressing this stuff directly until the end of the LL run- takes an Euhemerist approach. Where mortals and mortal events got mythologized into being divine or semi-divine through the passage of time.

It's not a bad take honestly, and I think Euhemerism as a concept works very well in a fictional setting (it even has its uses in trying to analyze myth in the contexts of history) but there's one flaw in how IDW chose to go about this...
Their timeline is super condensed when you consider Cybertronian lifespans.

Nova Prime, the first Prime post-Thirteen, is talked about as belonging to the realm of myth and legend... but he was also around when many characters in the present were still alive. Rewind even has a recording of one of his most famous speeches!
It's kind of hard to tell a story where the deeds of mortals are elevated to those of the gods through the passage of time when you still have people who saw the deeds of mortals first hand kicking around.

Most Euhemerist takes in fiction will either focus on the events as they happened with an epilogue showing how the story evolved and got mythologized by the end, or they'll focus on the present or future as characters discover the truth about whatever myth is central to the story.

IDW wanted to do both, and could have done both, but their own timeline makes it an awkward fit.

I had that, it's not a particularly good story. It's even below the Aligned novels in terms of quality IMO, and those weren't that great either. Stilted, overly dramatic, more of a retelling of a ponderous narrative than a true narrative itself.

And I get why. I get the feeling the intent was to kind of mirror a Biblical style of storytelling. Where there's less of a focus on dialogue and character growth and more dictation of Very Important Events. But it doesn't make for the most engaging experience.
 
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Donocropolis

Olde-Timey Member
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Council of Elders
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Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling. They're robots, so they don't need to have lifespans as short as ours, but make them have a natural life of maybe 500-1,000 years with a few outliers to keep things interesting. Long enough to be ancient by human standards but without the complications that arise from characters that are literally millions of years old.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling. They're robots, so they don't need to have lifespans as short as ours, but make them have a natural life of maybe 500-1,000 years with a few outliers to keep things interesting. Long enough to be ancient by human standards but without the complications that arise from characters that are literally millions of years old.
I feel like SkyBound shortening the Great War to two hundred years is a step in the right direction.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I had that, it's not a particularly good story. It's even below the Aligned novels in terms of quality IMO, and those weren't that great either. Stilted, overly dramatic, more of a retelling of a ponderous narrative than a true narrative itself.

And I get why. I get the feeling the intent was to kind of mirror a Biblical style of storytelling. Where there's less of a focus on dialogue and character growth and more dictation of Very Important Events. But it doesn't make for the most engaging experience.
And yet, Mark Maher won't stop glazing it just because it's a near-complete record of Cybertronian history.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
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I miss when marketers all assumed Simon Furman's The Ultimate Guide was a good source. It was a mess but the broad strokes were better than this.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
Cybertronians living for millions of years was always a mistake, I think. It became necessary to explain why the Ark and Nemesis crews could be knocked out for 4 million years but still know everyone on Cybertron when they woke up, but I'd 100% be ok leaving that in the past for future storytelling.
It can work, but you have to be willing to lean into the agelessness of it. The universe is over 18 billion years old; if Primus/Quintessons get started early enough there's time for multiple millennia-long generations to pass. Human history is only about 6000 years old (not even counting late pre-history, where people had complex tools and knowledge, but left no surviving records) --adjusting for scale you could easily have a Cybetronian timeline that's as elabourate and mysterious as our own.

In my head, Cybertronians tend to occupy the same space as Tolkien's elves or Lovecraft's Elder Things; their civilization has risen and fallen for aeons before we even existed as a species.

And yet, Mark Maher won't stop glazing it just because it's a near-complete record of Cybertronian history.
Oh Primus; it's the Prose Edda of Cybertron. Alpha Trion is our Snorri Sturluson.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
And yet, Mark Maher won't stop glazing it just because it's a near-complete record of Cybertronian history.
I kind of get why because it's the single most complete source of Cybertronian pre-history so if you want to explore that stuff the CoP is as good a place to start as any.

That doesn't make it good, though. I'd argue that the CoP is best used as a source of ideas to draw from, and change and expand upon as a particular story needs, rather than the etched in stone Way Things Are. Which is why I really like TFO's treatment of the mythology. They clearly used the CoP as a starting point, but changed things as they needed. And it's to the film's advantage.

I'd even argue that the current brand team is doing that with AotP, as limited as a story can be via a toyline. Already the figures of the Thirteen seem to have more thought and characterful design put into them than any of the art or prose in the CoP.

The CoP is a great broad slice layout to take ideas from, but it shouldn't be elevated to anything more than that, IMO.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Which is why I really like TFO's treatment of the mythology. They clearly used the CoP as a starting point, but changed things as they needed. And it's to the film's advantage.
It's funny you should say that. Josh Cooley was asked today at BotCon if he had read the CoP, and said he didn't. What he read was instead a PDF that was most likely the Binder.
 


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