Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
Calling it a negotiating tool is a rosy way of talking about it. I believe that the purpose of the tariffs in their purest form is to show everyone in the world how important Donald Trump is. But the negotiating tool part comes in because if a nation comes and kisses his ring and pleads with him for mercy and gives him some kind of tribute that he can display, he is willing to lower or drop the tariff. He sells it as getting America a better deal, but it is really very personal.
Of course it is. His entire campaign, his entire political persona and purpose is to have people kiss his ass. Trump is a sociopathic narcist. He demands all bend the knee. This entire campaign was a grievance fueled run for revenge against anyone and everyone, but most especially against people he considered disloyal. He wants everyone to acknowledge him as some kind of god king.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
Okay... he's repeatedly proven he can't be trusted. At all. How many times does he need to "win" in a year to keep the tariffs off?

Some countries might be willing to negotiate now: but how many times will they negotiate with a guy who never honours his contracts before they realize he will not stop?
Rumbling in my brain a while I realized I do have a sort of answer to your questions, maybe a really good one.

Look at his first career. He built a lot of real estate and he swindled a lot of people to do it. Contractors in NYC knew that they'd be in court to litigate some of their payment out of him. They kept working with him because he was holding the cards. If you were doing steel or welding or electrical or concrete or whatever in NYC, NOT dealing with Donald Trump was going to leave you out in the cold.

So Vietnam and Madagascar don't TRUST Donald Trump. They just recognize that their economy is dependent on the good graces of the USA and right now the USA doesn't have much grace, but they are dependent even so. They aren't trying to get a good deal. They are trying to get a better one than the one he is throwing at them and they know that they might have to do it again, but they just need to get through 4 years and then see where they are and maybe put some effort into developing other markets. But the point is they don't trust him and it doesn't matter. They have to work with him.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
Thank you for the answer man, your insight is appreciated.

It was a rhetorical question, but still appreciated.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
Rumbling in my brain a while I realized I do have a sort of answer to your questions, maybe a really good one.

Look at his first career. He built a lot of real estate and he swindled a lot of people to do it. Contractors in NYC knew that they'd be in court to litigate some of their payment out of him. They kept working with him because he was holding the cards. If you were doing steel or welding or electrical or concrete or whatever in NYC, NOT dealing with Donald Trump was going to leave you out in the cold.

So Vietnam and Madagascar don't TRUST Donald Trump. They just recognize that their economy is dependent on the good graces of the USA and right now the USA doesn't have much grace, but they are dependent even so. They aren't trying to get a good deal. They are trying to get a better one than the one he is throwing at them and they know that they might have to do it again, but they just need to get through 4 years and then see where they are and maybe put some effort into developing other markets. But the point is they don't trust him and it doesn't matter. They have to work with him.
And this is the thing that bothers me. I wanted to say something in the Hasbro thread, but that's not the appropriate place.
Even if there are compelling reasons to do so, bending the knee is still bending the knee. If the world at large tells him to hug off, it may take a month or so, but he'd drop the tariffs if only because his own party would rebel. hug, let them be intact when harvest time comes and watch the midwest suddenly go purple. (blue is a pipe dream) A unified front can stop the bullying. This 'every man/country for themselves' just leaves the whole ripe for further abuse. It gives him ammo to go out there and say he's been right the whole time. I cannot abide that.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
China, Korea, and Japan I think said they would make a united front when they announced response.

I mean, nothing you said is wrong, but most of these are little countries that have to take care of themselves and because of the way things are they all have a vulnerability to the USA abusing them. It's nice to talk tough, but some of them will collapse if they try to wait him out.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
It's pretty much the same mechanism that keeps capitalism running; it's nice to say "I refuse to work for an exploitative/immoral/genocide-enabling company," but that just results in you losing your home and either going to jail (in which case you're still a worker, just for no pay) or dying of poverty. You don't have a choice but to play by the rules of the system.

On an individual level, we have unions to give some leverage to the workers who are being exploited. In an international level, the United Nations and NATO are supposed to do the same thing, but they can't be effective as long as the exploiter is also the Union Boss.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen

This is peak ******ed. The openly admit that they accused him falsely and didn't take the time to make sure before sending him to a prison in another country and they so well it is too late now. He's in another country and there isn't anything we can do. The same government that says we need Panama Canal and Greenland and we're not ruling out military force to get them. And then a judge says, No look you need to go take care of this and their response is "You're not the boss of me"

You know what? No one should HAVE to tell you to make this right.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
That's the first time I got swear filtered. The word I said was insensitive. Not filthy.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen

This is peak ******ed. The openly admit that they accused him falsely and didn't take the time to make sure before sending him to a prison in another country and they so well it is too late now. He's in another country and there isn't anything we can do. The same government that says we need Panama Canal and Greenland and we're not ruling out military force to get them. And then a judge says, No look you need to go take care of this and their response is "You're not the boss of me"

You know what? No one should HAVE to tell you to make this right.
If they can fly Kristie "I shoot animals" Noem over there, film a ******* propaganda piece in 4 ******* K, they can find the man they fucked over.
I genuinely hope everyone in the administration is sued into ******* oblivion by his family. Trump may be criminally immune, but not civilly. And none of his immunity extends down the line.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
It is hard for me to imagine that the prison and El Salvador would resist sending him back. And we're gonna be sending planes there all the time, right? Those planes have to come back. His return is costless.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
It is hard for me to imagine that the prison and El Salvador would resist sending him back. And we're gonna be sending planes there all the time, right? Those planes have to come back. His return is costless.
I can guarantee you that el-salvador was told they could keep everyone, and is going to charge a "fee" to drag him out of there. Nothing is free when dealing with capitalists and tyrants.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Even if it was free, it would require Trump admitting his people made a mistake. He doesn't have the balls for it, so innocent people will suffer instead.
 

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
It is hard for me to imagine that the prison and El Salvador would resist sending him back. And we're gonna be sending planes there all the time, right? Those planes have to come back. His return is costless.
I can guarantee you that el-salvador was told they could keep everyone, and is going to charge a "fee" to drag him out of there. Nothing is free when dealing with capitalists and tyrants.

El Salvador is already charging a fee to house our deportees. They agreed to accept whoever we send no questions asked, and in exchange we're funding their mega prison.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
I'm aware of the deal trump cut: and given what we've already seen trump do; he told el-salvador he could keep them.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
I wasn't aware of the deal Trump cut, but was beginning to suspect. These people are a drain on our economy so we're going to round them up, fly them on jets to El Salvador and pay for them forever there?
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
I wasn't aware of the deal Trump cut, but was beginning to suspect. These people are a drain on our economy so we're going to round them up, fly them on jets to El Salvador and pay for them forever there?
Not only do we pay to house them but El Salvador gets a bunch of slave labor to boot. Not sure how anyone could think this was a good idea for the American taxpayer, much less humanity in general. Frankly it's a HUGE violation of the Constitution to boot. Every single one of the people sent there had their rights to due-process stripped. These aren't enemy combatants attacking US soil, which is really the only group who could really be stripped of said rights.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
So with our economy paying for them being on both sides of the scale, that's wasn't the issue. We prefer not seeing brown people to getting slave labor from brown people.
 


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