Hasbr-uh-oh - Business and Tariffs Discussion

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen

Princess Viola

Dumbass Asexual
Citizen
stuff is currently being tariffed right now idk what you mean by 'we're going to get through 4 years without anything actually being tariffed'

like yeah they paused their absolute fuckshit insane tariffs but they still enacted 10% tariffs on all the countries (and still more for china) for 90 days during the pause
 

Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
Citizen
My reading is that the Appeals Court basically struck down everything Trump has enacted since “Liberation Day”. However, the Administration is obviously appealing and it remains to be seen how much, if at all, the Administration complies.

My suspicion is that what will happen is that this takes most of the President’s term to shake out, and then we’ll have companies filing, if not outright suing, to recover at least SOME of their tariff costs. Though, that won’t be much consolation to those who don’t even survive the next year under this chaos.
 

Princess Viola

Dumbass Asexual
Citizen
This isn't the first thing the courts have ruled against. But enforcement and compliance has been the real bottleneck.
The big difference here is that there is no real bottleneck.

Tariffs are a tax. Importers fill out paperwork as part of the payment process to show 'Yup, here's the payment for the 10% tariffs we gotta pay'. And they pay this money because they will get into legal trouble if they don't do so, just like you'll get into legal trouble if you refuse to pay type of tax.

And that's the key word here 'legal trouble'. Apologies for briefly going into more serious P&R for a second here but this isn't like the courts going 'Hey, stop grabbing and deporting people who are here legally' and then the admin continuing to do that before the courts can stop it.

The courts need to be on board with these tariffs in order for them to be effective because if the court has ruled 'Yeah nah putting these tariffs in place was illegal', then there is no legal trouble for anyone who refuses to pay them. Even if the admin goes 'DON'T CARE WHAT THE CORRUPT AND RIGGED COURT SAYS STILL PAY THE TARIFFS OR WE'LL GO AFTER YOU IF YOU DON'T' well uhh that would absolutely not hold up in court because the case was literally saying 'Yeah he can't set tariffs like this'

And if Trump tells the USITC and CBP to keep collecting these illegal tariffs, they will be held in contempt and arrested and imprisoned. And sure 'What if he pardons them?', well he can only pardon to the crime itself - if he pardons these people and they go right back to trying to collect these tariffs, they can be arrested again for committing a new crime. And do you really think these people would want to keep on doing this cycle of facing arrest, jail time, then being pardoned just because the President told them to ignore this court order and keep trying to collect these tariffs?

(To say nothing of how this ruling has given him an out by spelling out exactly how he can do broad tariffs: it states that under Section 122 of the Trade Act of 1974, the president has the authority to enact a maximum 15% tariffs for a maximum 150 days, unless extended by Congress, specifically to deal with 'large and serious balance-of-payments deficits'. Which seems like 'Oh so what's changing then?' well I mean for starters - now he can't just go 'I DECLARE 40% TARIFFS EFFECTIVE IN ONE MONTH!!!' (people tell him that will hug the economy over so much) 'I DECLARE A PAUSE ON THESE TARIFFS THEY WILL BE 20% TARIFFS FOR 90 DAYS WHILE WE WORK OUT SOME GREAT TRADE DEALS, TREMENDOUS TRADE DEALS. THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ONES, THEY'LL BENEFIT ALL OUR NATIONS THE BEAUTIFUL ONES (THE US OF AMERICA) AND THE SLIGHTLY LESS BEAUTIFUL ONES', it's adding bureaucratic procedures that have to be followed and makes it so it's no-t just his random whims deciding if tariffs get paused, increased, decreased, etc.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
And if Trump tells the USITC and CBP to keep collecting these illegal tariffs, they will be held in contempt and arrested and imprisoned.

This is mainly what I'm referring to when I say enforcement. They've yet to actually arrest and imprison anyone involved in the far more heinous stuff, so we'll have to see what happens in terms of enforcement if and when.

But I see what you mean about it not coming to that, and about the people at customs not wanting to have to deal with any of this. They're far less protected and/or able to pivot away from consequences, so they likely won't be going against what the courts have stated.

But yeah, this game of chicken is costly and draining, even if it's obvious who's going to end up chickening out.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
So does this ruling, right now, stop the tariffs? Are they not being collected? How about the de minimus exception?
Like, where are we at right now, in this moment?
 

Princess Viola

Dumbass Asexual
Citizen
So does this ruling, right now, stop the tariffs? Are they not being collected? How about the de minimus exception?
Like, where are we at right now, in this moment?
Right now the following tariffs remain in place: the Section 232 tariffs of 25% on automotive, steel, and aluminum imports and the Section 301 tariffs placed on China during his first term and expanded during the Biden admin.

The tariffs he issued under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act right now are not being enforced but the admin has filed an appeal and has requested that the appeals court enforce a stay on enforcing the ruling the US Court of International Trade has made. And they have indicated that if the appeals court does not enforce a stay on the ruling (meaning that while it's undergoing appeals, these tariffs will remain in place), they may ask the Supreme Court for a stay as soon as tomorrow.

As far as de minimis goes...yeah nah that is actually something the president has the power to do. So don't expect there to be any court rulings going 'No you can't do that' as far as that goes. (The Biden admin was considering ending the de minimis exception for Chinese goods, for example)
 

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I think I just got screwed by all this nonsense on a (non-TF related) review sample someone sent me by UPS.

Was told when they sent it there would be an $11 customs charge when it arrived, and they PayPal'd me the money to cover it. Just checked on it to see if the package was still on track for today and decided to just see about paying the charge off now (I was going to do it when I picked it up, but figures since I already had the page pulled up)...

$88+.

Friggin' ridiculous. I can't afford that!
 


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