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[lastmaximal]

Defending the writing of the kids in Armada etc is like defending, say, heels (bad guys) in wrestling.

"Of course you don't like them, they're the bad guys, we're meant to hate them" only goes so far, as booing/disliking them can come from a character/narrative place (as it should), or just "this guy is boring/a terrible performer/unconvincing and I want to see someone else". Here it's not so much that the kids are "too real", it's that such behavior doesn't make for an egaging and entertaining viewing experience.

Yeah, kids in real life can be a pill. That doesn't mean they're enjoyable to watch in recurring roles in fiction when written that way, and it's far from useful as a blanket defense of such writing.

 

[Sabrblade]

A big issue with the Armada kids for me is the incongruities of their portrayal in how they are written, designed, animated, and voiced (the latter even applies for both the English and Japanese versions).

The five of them are all supposed to be middle school kids, yet they are drawn and voiced to look and sound more like high school kids, but the way they are written and animated makes their behavior resemble that of elementary school kids.

The end result makes the five of them look and sound older than they are, while acting much younger than they are. It's a very mixed portrayal overall.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Yeah, kids in real life can be a pill. That doesn't mean they're enjoyable to watch in recurring roles in fiction when written that way, and it's far from useful as a blanket defense of such writing.

I mean...
to me them being on the more realistic end of things adds to the show. I like the way they interact with each other and the Autobots. What can I say? They have a certain charm to their dynamic that I dig.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

The problem with accurately portraying something as annoying is that it is still annoying. It doesn't suddenly cease to be annoying because it's realistic or because it's art.

 

[Dake]

Yeah and cartoon kids tend to be more obnoxious really - because they're frequently only written that way and there's no correction for their behavior. You can write "real" kids that aren't irritating all the time, but that level of characterization is usually missing. For every Ahsoka who you get to watch grow and learn, there are dozens of one-note Dennis the Menace types.

 

[Sabrblade]

This is why I keep recommending Legends of the Microns over the Armada dub. It's more competently written and animated, with Rad and friends far more tolerable.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

The Armada kids are dreadful. The show would have been better without them, or they should have been sidelined as quickly as possible.

But they are not at all what I was thinking about when the show was over.

 

[Princess Viola]

This is why I keep recommending Legends of the Microns over the Armada dub. It's more competently written and animated, with Rad and friends far more tolerable.

counterpoint: not everyone wants to have to fuckin read while they're watching their over 20 year old children's cartoons

 

[Shadewing]

counterpoint: not everyone wants to have to fuckin read while they're watching their over 20 year old children's cartoons

I dont know if its due to my autism or what, but I can't do subs becuase my mind can either focus on trying to read what's being said, or whats going on screen. So I'll end up spending over an hour watching a 22 minute show, as I keep having to replay stuff to make sure I didnt miss anything.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I'm old school. My first exposure to anime was Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, and YGO. I'm dub all the way. I love Armada and Cybertron's a guilty pleasure, but I have never felt compelled to watch subs of the original Japanese versions.

 

[Princess Viola]

I dont know if its due to my autism or what, but I can't do subs becuase my mind can either focus on trying to read what's being said, or whats going on screen. So I'll end up spending over an hour watching a 22 minute show, as I keep having to replay stuff to make sure I didnt miss anything.

I mean I'm autistic too and I have no issues with subs so that probably doesn't help.

(Ironically I probably would watch Legend of the Microns subbed over Armada dubbed but I'm one of those 'I wanna watch shows in the original language the vast majority of the time but dubs should still exist for those who don't want to have to read subtitles' types)

 

[lastmaximal]

Never had a problem with subs, and actually prefer them even in media whose audio language I can understand. But I'm aware that's not a universal experience.

Of course, one more reason I might be less annoyed by the Japanese audio kids could be that too: that I can't understand the language they're being annoying in. Like, I'm sure there'll be some vocal quirks too, but there's a level of separation there at least.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I watch everything with subtitles anyway. (When available.) even if it's in english.

I cannot tell you the sheer number of movie quotes and lines I misinterpreted as a kid just going by ear.

Fun fact, I had no idea what the lyrics to Dragula were despite seeing the first matrix many, many times as a youngin', even though I really liked the music in the rave scene.

 

[Haywire]

I'm old school. My first exposure to anime was Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, and YGO. I'm dub all the way. I love Armada and Cybertron's a guilty pleasure, but I have never felt compelled to watch subs of the original Japanese versions.

*Looks at Speed Racer, Gigantor, Starblazers, and even Robotech in his collection because he used to watch them.
*crumbles to dust

...all kidding aside, I'm kind of mixed on dubbed vs subbed. There's some shows I can watch either way, like Robotech/Macross, or Evangelion, but my first exposure to those was dubbed versions. Then there are shows like Cowboy Bebop, which I watched subbed first, and the dubbed voices never sound right or catch the mannerisms (Faye in particular). And then there's City Hunter, which I saw dubbed first, but the subtitled version is definitive in my opinion. I can watch it dubbed, but don't care to.
I enjoyed hearing the Japanese take on G1 in Headmasters, so I don't think I'd mind watching Armada subtitled; on the flip side, I'd likely be watching Armada with my son, so dubbed would be the default choice anyway. *shrug*

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Honestly, I think it was the addition of Billy and Fred that pushed the kids a bit past tolerable for me. Like, it's cool they stopped being bullies and all, but... that's really about it. They didn't really add anything, did they?

At least the original three had bonds with Mini-cons, but Fred and Billy were just two more voices... and an annoying one, in Fred's case, as pointed out above.

As for subs versus dubs? No strong feelings, but it depends on the show, I guess. Case in point: Crunchyroll, for whatever reason, only has the sub of Dragon Ball Super, and I much prefer the English voices, so I'm not watching it on there.

Gurren Lagann, on the other hand... wow, I wish I could watch the dub on account of some of the talent involved, but again, it's not on there (despite the dub VA credits being shown). But I don't really have the same attachment as I do from growing up with DBZ on Toonami and the VHS tapes back in the day, so it's easier for me.

If I had no other choice? I'd watch DB Super subbed, but since I do...

 

[Blot]

counterpoint: not everyone wants to have to fuckin read while they're watching their over 20 year old children's cartoons

Counterpoint: I wish I could read my over 20 year old children's cartoons but nobody's subbing them.

 

[Sciflyer]

Yeah, I have never really minded subtitles. I've been able to enjoy lots of cartoons, movies, and video games over the years using them. Recently, I rewatched a good chunk of Super-God Masterforce and got used to the subs pretty quickly.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

The biggest argument for watching Micron Legend with subs is that the dialog makes sense. Armada is nowhere near as bad as Energon, but there are moments of "Whaaaaaat are they talking about?"

 

[Sabrblade]

Yeah, the Armada dub was largely going off Japanese dialogue scripts that were very much unfinished and not finalized, being so rushed that the dub even premiered on Cartoon Network months before the Japanese version first started airing in Japan. Thus, the dub was left having to try making sense of the unfinished scripts on its own, to less than stellar results.

It was a lot like a Samurai Pizza Cats situation, only far less creative and entertaining.

 

[Blot]

War Dawn pack is up now, usual Premium members dibs hour until it's available for everyone else at 1pm Eastern time.