The US Supreme Court and its decisions

CoffeeHorse

*sip*
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Holy cow. This case is a complete microcosm of the battle over regulations, and I mean a complete microcosm.

Behold:

Mr. Bright laid out the basic question in his case.

A 1976 federal law requires herring boats to carry federal observers to collect data needed to prevent overfishing. That was fine with him.

"There’s nothing wrong with the monitors,” he said. “They’re actually gathering information that is valuable to us.”

But a 2020 regulation interpreting the law that required his company to pay for the oversight, at a rate of some $700 a day, was another matter. “I don’t think it’s fair,” he said, adding that Congress had not authorized the agency to impose the fee.

Yeah that really doesn't seem fair.

“In practice, the 2020 rule’s monitoring provisions have had no financial impact on regulated vessels,” the brief said, adding that the program was suspended last year and the agency reimbursed the monitoring costs that had been incurred under it.

Oh.

Mr. Bright’s company is represented by Cause of Action Institute, which says its mission is “to limit the power of the administrative state.” The plaintiffs in the Rhode Island case are represented by the New Civil Liberties Alliance, which says it aims “to protect constitutional freedoms from violations from the administrative state.” Both groups have financial ties to the network of foundations and advocacy organization funded by Charles Koch, a billionaire who has long supported conservative and libertarian causes.

Oh.

They're going to destroy regulations we actually do need using a case that's effectively moot to begin with.
 

Ironbite4

Well-known member
Citizen
They did this with Roe Vs. Wade and they're doing it again.

Ironbite-and with that, what's the point of the Federal Government?
 

Spin-Out

terminal shitposter
Citizen
the supreme court should be abolished and replaced with something that's actually capable of being kept in check at this point, tbh
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
Kept in check by whom? Whoever we put in charge of that is just going to become as corrupt as everyone else.
 

Sjogre

Member
Citizen
Technically, it's already possible to impeach/remove Justices, it's just that Congress is already jacked up. There really needs to be a better system of accountability, but the people that are supposed to fix the problem are now part of the problem, so fixing things is gonna be pretty unpleasant.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
Something to actually keep an eye on next week:


tl;dr There's a case before the SC about whether federal government officials informing social media companies of dis/mis-information and asking them to take it down(such as when the FBI or CISA was reaching out about election propaganda issues) is a First Amendment violation, based on whether it counts as coercion or just persuasion. Depending on how it goes it could impede the ability to share information or even reach out at all to said platforms if the ruling is both against it and too broad.

(See how easy that is to provide a non-inflammatory actual summary of the link?)
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
In three of the states the fascists use as test markets for oppressive regime changes. Just like abortion: if they get the chance, they WILL enforce it nationwide. Probably about five minutes before they announce an end to the second amendment.
 

CoffeeHorse

*sip*
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Other states have been trying to do this for years, and now they've seen how it can be done without getting struck down.

Florida will probably have a new bill in the works before the end of the week.
 

Xaaron

Member
Citizen
To be clear: It is still legal to peacefully assemble. This case addresses who is responsible for consequences if the assembly is no longer peaceful. This case involves a civil negligence complaint against a BLM organizer, not criminal charges. It does not find him guilty -- it only declares that, based on the alleged facts, the suit would not be dismissed on the merits.

The allegations (not proven facts, mind you) include the organizer Deray McKesson directed a protest outside a police station, actively encouraged illegal assembly to block traffic, encouraged "violent resistance" to police efforts to disperse the unlawful assembly, and praised or encouraged the destruction of private property, described as B&E and looting of nearby businesses. McKesson was at the scene of the protest, allegedly directing and encouraging the activity. This culminated in an unidentified protestor throwing a rock which caused injury to a police officer. All sides agree McKesson did not explicitly direct the rock throwing. The courts previously dismissed the officer's suits against BLM as an organization and allegations that McKesson was involved in a "civil conspiracy".

Established law says the organizer can be held liable for the actions of others if 1) he authorized, directed, or ratified specific tortious activity, 2) if his public speeches were likely to incite lawless conduct, then he could be held liable for unlawful conduct that followed, or 3) his speeches at the scene implied he had given other, more explicit, instructions encouraging criminal activity before hand.

The disagreement between the district and circuit courts comes down to that word "specific". Is McKesson liable only if he authorized, directed or ratified the throwing of the rock, or can he be held liable if he authorized, directed or ratified other or generalized unlawful activity, which reasonably led to that specific rock?

Again, the Supreme Court's ruling does not mean McKesson is now guilty of civil or criminal conduct. It does not mean the allegations from the officer's suit are true (how much did McKesson actually incite or encourage violence or criminal activity..?). It only means that IF someone actively encourages unlawful protesting, they MAY be held liable for the consequences of that protesting.

If you think Trump should face legal consequences for January 6th, I'd love to hear a legal distinction between his actions and the alleged conduct of this BLM organizer.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
One was intent on temporarily disrupting normal civil or social actions to draw attention to an ongoing social issue.

The other was a coup.
 

Xaaron

Member
Citizen
You're weighing the merits of their causes and that wasn't my question.

I'm asking for an objective legal standard which we can hold both men to equally under the law.

What did Trump say or do differently than DeRay McKesson which shows HE should be responsible for the actions of his protestors and McKesson should not?
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
One of them was a protest. Peaceful or not, doesn't matter. The other was an attempt to overthrow a legally and legitimately elected government. Peaceful or not, doesn't matter.

One of them was trying to attention to social issues, THE OTHER built a hangmans noose and were actively hunting a human being and chanting "hang mike pence".

Causes are kind integral to reactions, because the law also takes into account WHY you did something. To compare trumps attempt to overthrow the US government, and a dude who just wants the cops to stop killing innocent folks who share his skin tone is disingenuous at best and brainwashing at worst.

But please, keep trying to convince us that apples and vaguely orange shaped cyanide capsules are identical.
 


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