Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

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Darth_Prime

Well-known member
Citizen
I’m guessing that was the Season 1 finale? I wasn’t sure how many episodes it was going for.

So if the Gorn are such a threat, where were they in TNG and DS9?

other than ripping off another franchise it wasn’t a bad episode. I get why certain people needed to leave the show, didn’t like what they did to Hammer. He was one of my favorite characters.
 

TheSupernova

How did we get so dark?
Citizen
I’m guessing that was the Season 1 finale? I wasn’t sure how many episodes it was going for.
This coming week is the season finale
Looks like we're going back to the "Pike's Fate" plotline. Pike meets with someone at Starfleet in regards to the group of bases near the Romulan Neutral Zone, and his son is one of the kids that will die in the training accident, and Pike can't seem to deal with it...
 

Cradok

Active member
Citizen
Yeah, I feel using the Gorn in this way is the series' first big 'lore' mistake. Arena is famous (infamous) for the Gorn captain, and I get wanting to 'redeem' that, but they've gone so far beyond that. We're well past 'against canon', by the way. In Arena nobody even knew knew there was anyone else in the area beyond 'rumours and legends', and they'd never even heard the word 'Gorn' before. But none of that is integral to the episode, so it's not that a big deal if it's thrown out. But if they wanted these Xenomorph types, maybe they should have used something else. The Tzenkethi spring to mind, something that's been mentioned a few times on screen but never seen (they have been in both STO and the books, but very differently in each). Or just make up something new.

The episode itself, fine. Plot was a bit thin and basically 'Trek does Alien', but sometimes that's enough if the character stuff can hold it up, and it really does. I was going to give props for the best, but that would basically the the whole cast. Sad to see Hemmer go, he was an interesting take on the 'cranky' character type. I really hope his short tenure - he was in five episodes plus a brief shot in a sixth - was the actor's choice rather than something else. I wonder if we're going to get Scott as his replacement.
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
I think it would’ve kinda been hilarious if the Metrons altered their perceptions so Kirk saw “bulky lizard guy” while the Gorn saw “slender monkey man”
 

Cradok

Active member
Citizen
When you put it like that... there's nothing to say that Kirk actually faced a Gorn, they could have been in separate areas fighting illusions, it could all have been one big lie.
 

Sean Whitmore

Member
Citizen
Considering the episode title of the finale (I’m avoiding any details beyond that), I wouldn’t be too shocked if the Metrons put in an appearance.

(Or, I’m way offbase and it’s simple a Shakespeare reference)
 

Lobjob

Active member
Citizen
This episode was great. I see a lot of people upset that these Gorn are ferocious monsters, as if they aren't just rogue children. If La'an was on a breeding planet full of these as of yet to be developed creatures, its no wonder she thinks the way she does. I can totally see these things becoming more civilized the older they get. I mean, compare a human infant to an adult, plenty of growing room there.
 

Dake

Well-known member
Citizen
Yeah, I really enjoyed it, complete with it's AvP mashup. But more than that I was amazed how they've managed to make me care more about these characters in nine episodes than I do about anyone on Discovery after 3 seasons.
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
I think I got click baited into watching All Those Who Wander. I saw it and, yeah, it was just Aliens. I thought it was going to be a stand alone ep that would blow my mind but it was just normal. Oh well.
 

Monique

Guess whos back
Citizen
I mean honestly... don't the Gorn kinda... not really come up that much in Star Trek? Yeah Arena is famous but its mostly for the goofy fighting and music not because its a top tier masterpiece of writing that is crucial to the mythos. Considering some of the very wild shit DIS and other series have done to canon in the past I dunno if 'Totally reworking that one species that showed up in on episode of star trek nearly 60 years ago and barely been relevant since' is that big of a problem.

I mean not for nothing but even in Arena the Gorn were kinda shown as ruthless dickbags. Disintegrating people and shelling landing parties, using sabotage to lure in prey, offering death as a mercy and killing first over territorial disputes rather than trying diplomacy. Kirk had to use a makeshift cannon just to incapacitate a single Gorn. I mean the whole reason the TOS encounter with the gorn doesn't end in more death and destruction is Kirk takes objection to being used for entertainment, at no point except the very end after being bested and then shown mercy do the Gorn actually show any inclination towards talking things out. Enterprises entire involvement was from the Gorn trying to get more bodies for the slaughter.

So yeah. Super tough, super violence, seeking out people to do violence upon. So long as the final evolution of them is bipedal I don't really see any issues with how they are portrayed in SNW that would disconnect them from the TOS appearance.
 

Kalidor

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
It took me a long time to get to this point, but I realize that not every line spoken and every single thing shown on screen needs to be preserved as gospel from the TOS.

I mostly started coming around when I realize how many minor things got ignored or outright changed without a second after rewatching the series in 2020.

While I do think it's better to add or explain things that 'might have existed' that were not shown on screen or mentioned compared to outright changing things, if you stuck solely to what was shown on screen you'd have already lost within the same series from episode to episode at best, and certainly by the time the first movie came out.

I'm actually shocked they spent as much time acknowledging the enterprise refit as they did, considering how every other single thing that was updated was just handwaved, never to be spoken of again until decades later when people wanted to "explain" stuff.

People like to hold the "way things looked" during "Kirk's time" in pretty high regard, but a mere 10 years later "Kirk's time" didn't retain a single solitary element of design from the TV show in the 60s.

Anyway, the Gorn retcons are fine. Like others say, they were barely anything at all in the grand scheme of the universe and wanting to stick with them in their one low budget appearance is pretty pointless.

People need to start using their Vulcanian logic.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
They also were in Enterprise though... why does everyone keep forgetting that?


Though I suppose it could be handwaved because "Mirror Universe" it's still another appearance on actual TV
 

TM2-Megatron

Member
Citizen
Enterprise certainly made them more threatening than that lumbering dude in TOS. Mirror Archer was a total lunatic, and even he looked worried when that dude he was torturing told him the Tholian's slave master was a Gorn.

SNW may have overpowered them just a bit, though. They seem to have all the horror-movie monster attributes wrapped up in one package, but somehow they're still an intelligent, spacefaring species? If they start killing each other for dominance within days of hatching, how is that even possible?
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
I can't remember if it was said outright, but DS9 at least implied that relations with the Gorn had become friendly by the 24th century; Kasidy Yates' brother lived on Cestus III, where there's a thriving baseball franchise (the Pike City Pioneers).

The novels capitalized on this to suggest that the Gorn have become hooked on baseball (logically, the Pioneers need to play someone), to the point where President Bacco and Imperator Sozzerozs can communicate in baseball metaphors. :D

There's a Lower Decks episode I want to see. . .
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
Enterprise certainly made them more threatening than that lumbering dude in TOS. Mirror Archer was a total lunatic, and even he looked worried when that dude he was torturing told him the Tholian's slave master was a Gorn.

SNW may have overpowered them just a bit, though. They seem to have all the horror-movie monster attributes wrapped up in one package, but somehow they're still an intelligent, spacefaring species? If they start killing each other for dominance within days of hatching, how is that even possible?

They specifically mention breeding “pens” so it’s possible they have walled off sections on planets where they drop an incubator and food where 5 or so Gorn battle the food (and themselves) for dominance before someone comes and picks up the winners for integration into full Gorn society.
 

Dake

Well-known member
Citizen
They also were in Enterprise though... why does everyone keep forgetting that?


Though I suppose it could be handwaved because "Mirror Universe" it's still another appearance on actual TV
I can't speak for anyone else but I can say it's because I've still never watched all of Enterprise. :D

That being said, it seems like SNW did built on that version of Gorn more so than the rubber-masked TOS Gorn.
 

Kup

Active member
Citizen
The “gore” in the episode turned my daughter off. We tend to avoid spoilers, trailers, even episode titles so we didn’t know what was coming. She said as the episode was starting “SNW and Picard are my favorite Star Trek shows.”

When Lieutenant Gold Shirt (blanking on his name) was attacked, she said “This isn’t my favorite anymore.”

That said, while SNW has felt like a family show from Episode 1, and this won’t turn us off to the show, it wasn’t anyone’s favorite. Basically this is the Zombie episode from What If? for us: watch it once and move on.

My biggest complaint is possibly what’s becoming a SciFi trope: get rid of your strong security/warrior female. To date:

Tasha
Dax
Alara (The Orville)
And now La’An.

I’m also surprised that the Khan-connected character is gone. It’s almost like…what was the point of making her a Khan if she was going to leave before exploring that side of her (besides a few passing references to Una).

ALSO no La’An-Una goodbye felt off to me.
 

Dake

Well-known member
Citizen
They've already misdirected with Lt Kirk. Maybe it was just a little something thrown in for Una's story line.
 
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