Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

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Cradok

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but the network didn't like it and sent in notes (notably forcing a choice between "the alien" or "the woman," but not both).

This may have been one of Gene's little 'fibs'. Others in the know have claimed it wasn't the character that was the problem, it was the actress; they didn't think she was good enough and, more importantly, they weren't happy that Gene was forcing his side-piece into the show.
 

The Doctor Who

Now With Sheffield Steel!
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That seems odd, given that she has, like, two roles in the final series. Nurse Chapel and the computer voice. But I wouldn't be too surprised if they said that. Like... Few people say they're bigots outright, it's usually couched in seemingly objective terms.

In regards to Discovery and Burnham, I want to add that, in a vacuum, there's really nothing wrong with the show or her. It just doesn't hit the same notes and tone as "traditional" Trek, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. If they were to leave the Star Trek title off, we'd probably have a lot less issue with it on the whole. It's still too focused on one character for my taste and I don't feel she's interesting enough on her own to carry that much attention, but that's really a personal taste thing. In total honesty? I'd suggest trying it out. Give it a season and if you like it, you'll probably enjoy it.
 

Dvandom

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Season 3 of Discovery was interesting because it was mostly building new stuff rather than gap-filling. Season 4 had potential, but as Kal said, it was stupid. I gave up on it after the poker game episode. I should probably get around to watching season 1 someday now that I have P+ (I saw S2 via a mix of piracy and DVD set).

S2 was a season-long macguffin hunt. S4 was a season-long macguffin hunt. S3 was more of a season-long exploration of this new world they'd found themselves in, with a mix of general "finding out what's up" and two different macguffin hunts (for Starfleet's remnants, and for the source of the Burn). That's probably why I liked S3 best of the three seasons I've seen, because it wasn't "every episode is about finding the cosmic plot device".

---Dave
 

G.B.Blackrock

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That seems odd, given that she has, like, two roles in the final series. Nurse Chapel and the computer voice. But I wouldn't be too surprised if they said that. Like... Few people say they're bigots outright, it's usually couched in seemingly objective terms.
The first thing to understand in this story is that (as has already been acknowledged) Majel Barrett and Gene Roddenberry were sleeping together. Without that, none of what follows matters.

The story goes, Majel Barrett bleached her hair blonde, and went into Gene's office. When he didn't immediately recognize her, she pointed out that, if HE didn't, neither would the producers who'd already told him to get rid of her (she really wanted to be in Star Trek!). He agreed, cast her as Nurse Chapel (and the computer, a non-camera role), and the producers indeed didn't figure it out until much later. When they did, they were furious, but the situation remained.
 

Cradok

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Well, some executives noticed straight away, with one apparently exclaiming 'Well look who's back' at a screening. But, yes, it was a while before people higher up found out, specifically Lucille Ball, who hated nepotisim and whose marriage had broken down partly due to Desi Arnaz sleeping around. It reportedly took some convincing to keep from having them both canned.
 

The Doctor Who

Now With Sheffield Steel!
Citizen
Out of curiosity, where does this come from? It's the first I've heard of it and since no one brought it up when I referred to the tale earlier in the thread, I'm naturally curious.

Lucille Ball doesn't get near enough credit for her role in Trek being made and it'd be a huge mark in her favor if she went ahead with it, despite Gene's shenanigans.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm not interested in protecting any nonsensical legacy for Gene as a idealistic person. Like, his petty BS was what dragged Trek down in early TNG and it's pretty undeniable that, at least by that point, promoting him out of the way made sense.

I'm just very reluctant to handwave a tale of misogyny in television, in the 60's, given that was, as they say, the style at the time. I can genuinely see both stories being true, but different perspectives on the same even, told with bias of the interested parties. The only way to really find an answer is with knowledge of both.
 
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Cradok

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Various reference books that were published, either written by or consulting original producers. These Are The Voyages which came out a few years ago also dug out a lot of original production memos and records, so there's a lot of new stuff in there.

(Well, today I cross-referenced from Memory Alpha, but the facts were hanging around in my brain anyway. I just like to double check my memory.)

Like, his petty BS was what dragged Trek down in early TNG and it's pretty undeniable that, at least by that point, promoting him out of the way made sense.

Well... it turns out that Gene wasn't as much to blame for that one as people thought. If you can find it, check out the documentary Chaos on the Bridge. Or if you can't, check out Leonard Maizlish on MA.
 

The Doctor Who

Now With Sheffield Steel!
Citizen
Fascinating! I'll have to read up when I have the time. Thank you!

I haven't really had a deep dive into Trek history in a decade or so, so relatively new stories will be a treat.
 

Monique

Guess whos back
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Oh wow that page on LM is wild. I never heard any of this stuff but it sounds like he made everyones life a living hell and kept doing illegal shit
 

The Doctor Who

Now With Sheffield Steel!
Citizen
Wow... Actually reading through it now, that's... That's horrific and paints the image of him basically using the dying Roddenberry as a crutch for his power trip.

Like, it doesn't really absolve Gene of the more shitty things he did before that time (the whole thing with Alexander Courage comes to mind), but it does make his later years more worthy of empathy.
 

G.B.Blackrock

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Wow... Actually reading through it now, that's... That's horrific and paints the image of him basically using the dying Roddenberry as a crutch for his power trip.

Like, it doesn't really absolve Gene of the more shitty things he did before that time (the whole thing with Alexander Courage comes to mind), but it does make his later years more worthy of empathy.
Not to absolve Gene, but apparently LM was responsible for the whole thing with Alexander Courage, too, at least according to the Memory Alpha entry.
 

TheSupernova

How did we get so dark?
Citizen
That last 10-15 minutes, though. Wasn't expecting that. Made the rest of the episode worthwhile.
 

Darth_Prime

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That last 10-15 minutes, though. Wasn't expecting that. Made the rest of the episode worthwhile.
I hope so. Just started it, and not hyped off of the episode description.

dumb episode. That wasn’t the turn I expected. Wonder what this does for the Doctor now as he no longer has a story to tell, unless it’s how he moves forward.
 
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TheSupernova

How did we get so dark?
Citizen
Yeah, it was easily the weakest of the season for me.

At this point, I wonder if it just frees up space for another character to have a bit of an arc for next season.

Otherwise, does M'Benga enter an intergalactic fishing tournament next?

(Actually....that might be a fun recurring B plot...)
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
This is a classic TOS type episode though - remember Kirk talking to Abraham Lincoln before going to fight Genghis Khan, I think it was? Or the one where they encountered the Greek Gods. Same tradition as he Q stuff or Holodeck episodes(just without the Holodeck)

As for the ending,
as someone pointed out given the time gap between seasons they'd have to deal with the actress aging, which kind of conflicts with the never-aging transporter buffer, and kind of bends the narrative - apparently a character in Lost had the same issue? And saying he has no story now is like saying Hemmer has no story. Or how Una had no story before the Light Infection episode. And aside from whatever else may come up for M'Benga, like you said he's going to have to process everything that happens now, and that's a good source for trauma drama if they want to dip into it.

While it feels a bit fast, I wouldn't have expected it to last longer than next season because of the aging thing. If they'd introduced her closer to the beginning of the season, that probably would have felt like more satisfactory pacing, which is my only complaint about it.

Still was a satisfying episode for me, though I haven't been looking at the episode descriptions beforehand so my response at the end of the cold open was pretty much summed up by M'Benga's own words, and I'm surprised there's any scenery left after how thoroughly the actors chewed it up.
 

Sean Whitmore

Member
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If I have one complaint about the episode, it's that the crew didn't come to their senses while still in costume, left to wonder what the hell was going on. It's maybe the first time I really wanted another La'an scene.
 

Cradok

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I'll always give extra points to something where it looks like the cast are really enjoying themselves, so this at least partly qualifies there. Mount, Christina Chong and Celia Rose Gooding went full Shat and was glorious, and while it didn't seem it because of her role, Melissa Navia probably had a lot of fun too. It was nice to see Bruce Horak doing something other than 'grumpy engineer'. I think that he's been the worst served so far, and I hope that one of the remaining two episodes is more focussed on him.

The story itself was fine. It feels like a TOS episode - although if I were to stamp it with a 'like', it would be 'like Masks crossed with Dramatis Personae' - and it does what it's trying to do well. But that ending. Oof. It really makes it the first episode of the series that I would class as a dud, despite how much of it I liked.
 

Dake

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If I have one complaint about the episode, it's that the crew didn't come to their senses while still in costume, left to wonder what the hell was going on. It's maybe the first time I really wanted another La'an scene.

I assume we're supposed to believe that all of it, costumes, set dressing, etc was all in their minds - just a mass hallucination (albeit one that M'Benga and Hemmer weren't entirely stuck in I guess).
 

Steevy Maximus

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It was a weak, but FUN episode. The cast clearly had a blast doing it, but they still managed a pretty strong ending.

I applaud them for wrapping M'Benga's arc so early. Too many shows (episodic or serial) will stretch any b or C plot for years after they should have done something with it (or outright forget them), it's nice to see a series not drag something like this out. The series has wonderfully straddled the line between having a sense of continuity, but not letting that continuity drag down the week to week experience.
 
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