Dungeons and Dragons, The OGL and Wizards of the Coast
- Thread starter Kalidor
- Start date
Yeah, what a clown show, the spirit of the old T$R rising to haunt D&D again.
That's a lot to read through but I think I get the main idea.
One thing that's sticking in my head is that it sounds like they're pulling two rather scummy stunts, but also stunts that can backfire spectacularly on them.
My way or the highway:
As stated before, if too many people choose the highway, you just screwed yourself. I've played other systems that have nothing to do with D&D just on these boards. I've seen others. WotC does not have the monopoly on tabletop gaming they seem to think they have.
We're a big corporation, come at us:
This is the thing that pisses me off more than anything. They do something legally dubious at best and more likely straight up illegal (predatory in any case), but since they're a big corporation with lots of money, what can be done?
I mean, hopefully a class action lawsuit can be brought against them. Maybe some of the bigger "small businesses " can give a bigger fight than WotC anticipated.
Unfortunately, big companies like this more often than not will survive these class action lawsuits while the smaller businesses are forced out of business.
Best thing I can say is that WotC's reputation is ruined and hopefully this will backfire on them more spectacularly than they could have imagined.
One thing that's sticking in my head is that it sounds like they're pulling two rather scummy stunts, but also stunts that can backfire spectacularly on them.
My way or the highway:
As stated before, if too many people choose the highway, you just screwed yourself. I've played other systems that have nothing to do with D&D just on these boards. I've seen others. WotC does not have the monopoly on tabletop gaming they seem to think they have.
We're a big corporation, come at us:
This is the thing that pisses me off more than anything. They do something legally dubious at best and more likely straight up illegal (predatory in any case), but since they're a big corporation with lots of money, what can be done?
I mean, hopefully a class action lawsuit can be brought against them. Maybe some of the bigger "small businesses " can give a bigger fight than WotC anticipated.
Unfortunately, big companies like this more often than not will survive these class action lawsuits while the smaller businesses are forced out of business.
Best thing I can say is that WotC's reputation is ruined and hopefully this will backfire on them more spectacularly than they could have imagined.
They did it... the madmen actually went and did it.
www.dndbeyond.com
The ENTIRE 5.1 SRD. Under Creative Commons. And no OGL changes(for now).
We'll want to be extra cautious, but it seems someone actually got a clue over at WOTC - though a part of me wonders if this is a gamble to try to kill ORC and come back later by the CC move.
OGL 1.0a & Creative Commons
Over the past few weeks you, the community, have made your voices heard. And we’ve listened. OGL 1.0a will remain untouched AND the entire SRD 5.1...
www.dndbeyond.com
The ENTIRE 5.1 SRD. Under Creative Commons. And no OGL changes(for now).
We'll want to be extra cautious, but it seems someone actually got a clue over at WOTC - though a part of me wonders if this is a gamble to try to kill ORC and come back later by the CC move.
They did it... the madmen actually went and did it.
OGL 1.0a & Creative Commons
Over the past few weeks you, the community, have made your voices heard. And we’ve listened. OGL 1.0a will remain untouched AND the entire SRD 5.1...
The ENTIRE 5.1 SRD. Under Creative Commons. And no OGL changes(for now).
We'll want to be extra cautious, but it seems someone actually got a clue over at WOTC - though a part of me wonders if this is a gamble to try to kill ORC and come back later by the CC move.
Thing is, I'm sure there are a lot of people with that very same thought. Trust has been broken.
My guess, there may be some people who continue with business as usual for now just because they can't change their business on a dime. But I think a lot of people will be looking to distance themselves from WotC as completely and as soon as possible.
I know!! WTF? I was not expecting this but I guess I didn't know what I was expecting since they had to do something besides double down on these bad practices.
I don't know what to think about this. I definitely still don't have any faith in what they've done but putting 5.1 in the creative commons makes it MORE free. This is crazy
I don't know what to think about this. I definitely still don't have any faith in what they've done but putting 5.1 in the creative commons makes it MORE free. This is crazy
Holy cow. A corporation isn't pretending not to understand the point. Trust is broken, but putting 5.1 in the Creative Commons means they know trust is broken and we needed a concession with teeth.
The blowback must be a lot bigger than a survey. The cancellations and publishers moving away from OGL mattered, and it was beyond what they can afford to lose. This was not going to blow over.
The blowback must be a lot bigger than a survey. The cancellations and publishers moving away from OGL mattered, and it was beyond what they can afford to lose. This was not going to blow over.
It was likely due to money. They lost a massive number of subs on D&D Beyond. But a full reversal is probably due to the movie. There's been some calls to boycott the D&D movie and the distributor probably said "fix this" to WOTC so the movie doesn't bomb.
Oh wow. I wasn't paying attention to the movie at all but I just checked and the ones releasing it are Paramount. Consider they revised Sonic's design after the fans complained and the movie did well afterwards, I wonder if Paramount is having a similar mindset and trying to appease fans since they see it as good business. "The Sonic the Hedgehog fandom saves Dungeons & Dragons" is....certainly not the the hot take I expected for 2023 but it may have a small degree of truth.
Oh wow. I wasn't paying attention to the movie at all but I just checked and the ones releasing it are Paramount. Consider they revised Sonic's design after the fans complained and the movie did well afterwards, I wonder if Paramount is having a similar mindset and trying to appease fans since they see it as good business. "The Sonic the Hedgehog fandom saves Dungeons & Dragons" is....certainly not the the hot take I expected for 2023 but it may have a small degree of truth.
I never took a position on whether or not to boycott the movie. I didn't think it was really going to affect the future of the game company in any meaningful way.
I think as far as the ttrpg base is concerned (Which like it or not, is WotC's target audience) they've had an awakening. People always used "D&D" to mean "table top game". They didn't want to play "other" games, they wanted to play D&D. But now they kind of realized that it's just a brand name and the GAME is what they want and they'll get that wherever they and their friends can find it.
The TTRPG is a different type of thing unique to itself. It doesn't work like video game, it doesn't work like sports. It's just this strange thing that can be done anywhere and at anytime with hardly any items besides 1 book, some dice and a pencil.
I think as far as the ttrpg base is concerned (Which like it or not, is WotC's target audience) they've had an awakening. People always used "D&D" to mean "table top game". They didn't want to play "other" games, they wanted to play D&D. But now they kind of realized that it's just a brand name and the GAME is what they want and they'll get that wherever they and their friends can find it.
The TTRPG is a different type of thing unique to itself. It doesn't work like video game, it doesn't work like sports. It's just this strange thing that can be done anywhere and at anytime with hardly any items besides 1 book, some dice and a pencil.
Hasbro has been hoping (and basically promising shareholders) that the movie will be the new Transformers 07. Maybe this wasn't going to tank it, but they really can't take the chance.
*Looks over at the other 3 Dungeons and Dragons movies*
I mean, why break tradition, though?
I think I've been told this before, but I don't remember a third movie. I have the first two on DVD (to my great shame). But I just don't remember there being a third.
Edit:
Never mind. Found it on Amazon. Nothing that will play in Region 1 players, so I guess I'm spared seeing it.
Edit:
Never mind. Found it on Amazon. Nothing that will play in Region 1 players, so I guess I'm spared seeing it.
Last edited:
I wasn't aware of any of them.
Don't bother. If you'd like to see older, good gaming movies, look up The Gamers, The Gamers: Dorkness Rising, and Hand of Fate.
I wonder if all the cancellations end up spelling the end of D&D Beyond. I'll admit I wasn't a fan at all of purchasing books twice. Maybe they'll change how it works now. And, while I'm hoping, whomever that administrative idiot was who said they wanted to monetize D&D like a video game, I hope they've been handed their unceremonious walking papers.
I wonder if all the cancellations end up spelling the end of D&D Beyond. I'll admit I wasn't a fan at all of purchasing books twice. Maybe they'll change how it works now. And, while I'm hoping, whomever that administrative idiot was who said they wanted to monetize D&D like a video game, I hope they've been handed their unceremonious walking papers.
The first one I don't think was meant to be taken seriously. Marlon Wayans was just plain irritating. Jeremy
Irons and Bruce Payne tried to outdo each other chewing the scenery. It was Irons' and Payne's over the top ham that personally took it to "so bad it's
The second one brought Bruce Payne back and was a lot more serious. It had almost no budget. It was very much darker and edgier than the first one. It was better than the first one, but still really bad.
All my DVD players are region 1 (living in the U.S. and all). So I've never seen the third one and probably won't be able to any time soon. I'm kinda curious though just because I've seen the other two and I'm kinda curious about it even knowing it's probably pretty bad.
Keep an eye out for a clawback, they might have accidentally put some IP (like Strahd and Beholders) into the OGL content.
One of the core problems seems to have been that the guy in charge of D&D content came out of MMOs, and assumed that the whole subscription and microtransaction model could be applied to tabletop as well.
---Dave
One of the core problems seems to have been that the guy in charge of D&D content came out of MMOs, and assumed that the whole subscription and microtransaction model could be applied to tabletop as well.
---Dave
Which is probably why the OGL revision (especially the part about claiming creative works) reminded me Blizzard’s own EULA shenanigans with Warcraft 3 Reforged.
In that revised agreement, for those unfamiliar, Blizzard basically said “anything you make in our editor, we got dibs on”. Likely to prevent another DOTA situation. DOTA (Defense of the Ancients) started as a game mod designed in Warcraft 3 which became HUGELY popular, creating the foundation for the modern MOBA genre. Valve would ultimately snag the developer to remake the mod into a full game as “DOTA 2”, which remains a dominant MOBA and eSports game.
Nah... if you want the real D&D experience, go pull out the Slayers and Record of Lodoss War DVDs. Record of Lodoss War is what the DM imagines their D&D campaign will be like, while Slayers is what the players turn it into.
(Side note: Slayers is actually based on a series of stories published in the Japanese version of Dragon magazine way back when! And Record of Lodoss War was produced based on BECMI.)
(Side note: Slayers is actually based on a series of stories published in the Japanese version of Dragon magazine way back when! And Record of Lodoss War was produced based on BECMI.)