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[LordGigaIce]

You see, I don't actually think that's the case; we're just innoculated to his bs now.

Like, because I'm an idiot, I'll rewatch those older films from time to time. (I also will rewatch Prime Wars and War for Cybertron, like I said, I'm an idiot) and I really don't think those films have any legs up on RotB 8-20 years later. It's the same noise, it's just old hat at this point.

A lot of RotB, to me, comes off as not particularly interesting. I really liked the direction Bumblebee took things in, and was looking forward to RotB.
What I got wasn't a continuation of the theme and style of Bumblebee, but Bay-lite.

Is it "the same noise"? I don't think so. RotB has ambitions but it decides to stay so close to trying to be a Bay film that it's emotional hooks with Noah and his bro and Elena fall flat.
Bay's movies never had deep character work either, but there's a manic energy that keeps you engaged. RotB didn't have that. Caple wasn't trying for that to be fair, but I don't think you can pare Serious Character Work with Bay's pacing and expect it to land. And to be frank? It doesn't. Noah only works because Anthony Ramos makes the most out of what he's given.

But to my larger point... while RotB and Bay's films have very similar plot structures and issues with Transformers who aren't characters, Bay made up for that with action.
Blackout's assault on the military base. Barricade stalking Sam. The Autobots' arrival to Earth. The Los Angeles Mission City battle. The forest battle. Chicago.
Say what you will about Bay's films overall, these action set pieces are pretty great as set pieces, in part because of how practical effects and stunts were used as much as possible.

Like... the first three Bay movies and RotB all culminate with big battles over McGuffins but the Bay final battles all feel distinct and energetic in their own ways, whereas RotB's takes place in a lifeless grey DBZ wasteland, conjured from the deepest pits of the MCU's computer files.

I'm not saying you have to like Bay's output. Of the five films he did I genuinely only enjoyed two of them ('07 and DotM if we're keeping score) but I do think there's a notable distinction in the manic energy and cinematic spectacle in Bay's offerings and the attempt to mimic it without that touch in RotB.

I was ready to move beyond the Bay movies after TLK crashed and burned and Bumblebee was exactly what I wanted.
Thing is if they weren't going to commit to that direction I'd have rather them just gone back to Bay to Bay it up rather than doing Diet Bay after no one asked for it.

As for this news... I genuinely enjoyed Transformers One but it... did not succeed. Paramount going back to the last guy to make any serious cash with a Transformers movie after that isn't shocking.

I will say that judging from Bay's non-Transformers outings... he can film a pretty great movie if he has a good script to work with, he's just not gonna elevate a bad script.

So I'm reserving any dread or cautious optimism until I hear who's allegedly writing this movie he's allegedly directing.

 

[Undead Scottsman]

That's the noise I'm talking about though.

None of those scenes you mentioned are really that better or worse than what happens in RotB, IMO. I don't see the "energy" you're talking about that's absent from RotB. I feel like we just saw them first and more often, so they stick in the mind more.

On a genuine reappraisal of those scenes, I don't think they stand out any better than, say, the mountainside battle in RoTB. CGI was better, but that's more an issue with modern Hollywood that I doubt Bay will be able to fix.

 

[LordGigaIce]

That's the noise I'm talking about though.

None of those scenes you mentioned are really that better or worse than what happens in RotB, IMO. I don't see the "energy" you're talking about that's absent from RotB. I feel like we just saw them first and more often, so they stick in the mind more.

On a genuine reappraisal of those scenes, I don't think they stand out any better than, say, the mountainside battle in RoTB. CGI was better, but that's more an issue with modern Hollywood that I doubt Bay will be able to fix.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because there's definitely an energy (I don't know how else to describe it) to Bay's Transformers outings that I think RotB just lacks, despite its ambitions.

 

[Badgertron]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because there's definitely an energy (I don't know how else to describe it) to Bay's Transformers outings that I think RotB just lacks, despite its ambitions.

A greasy coating of sass & irreverence?

 

[CoffeeHorse]

It's TV commercial energy. Making TV commercials is absolute production hell. You have 30 seconds to tell your story (to the extent you have a story) and you don't have all day to do retakes because you're not the only crew renting the studio that day. Get in, get out.

That's where Michael Bay got his start, and that's where he lives. When AOE turns into a Bud Light commercial out of nowhere, it's not shameless product placement. It's enthusiastic product placement. Someone left the camera unattended and Bay just couldn't help himself.

 

[MrBlud]

I see what LordGigalce means, I’ve rewatched Blackout’s base assault and the Freeway battle absent the rest of the films numerous times.

That said, it’s old hat at this point so it’s not going to lead to any appreciable further success. The next live action film that comes out regardless of script, director, and actors will be lucky to make what ROTB did. That’s just the way it is.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

As for this news... I genuinely enjoyed Transformers One but it... did not succeed. Paramount going back to the last guy to make any serious cash with a Transformers movie after that isn't shocking.

Well, hopefully they don't waste money promoting Bay's any more/better than they did on One, since obviously a film doesn't need any more than that to succeed.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

Just a thing to keep in mind:
A LOT can change over the next couple years. AFAWK, both directors are just in talks, and there are no scripts or anything done. In the most aggressive timetable I can think of, the soonest ANY new Transformers film could make it out would be 2027. And that’s full bore, full speed, rushing things through like what we saw with the initial 2007 sequels.
Josh Cooley is already committed to several projects, and Bay has his hands in several different producer roles. The earliest I’d expect a new film would be 2028, and that’s assuming Bay is willing to commit. The earliest I see Cooley’s would be 2029 or 2030.

 

[lastmaximal]

I'd argue that RotB is a Bay film without the sauce. For all of Bay's faults, his movies have a style and energy to them that makes them appealing. RotB and Battleship are what happens when you try to make a Bay movie without Bay, and it doesn't work.

I'll second this. And it's both good (getting away from the other bullshit that tends to be intertwined with that) and less good (it's an approximation at best, and feels like it).

They really should've kept the momentum from the Bumblebee solo of carrying some of the visual style but moving away from overstuffed, thin-on-characterization/plot stuff. The wishy-washy direction the post-TLK era has had has really caused it to drag in multiple ways.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Well, hopefully they don't waste money promoting Bay's any more/better than they did on One, since obviously a film doesn't need any more than that to succeed.

There's a double edged sword situation here. I remember there being reports of a Hasbro/Paramount after action report on TFO's failings and the poor marketing was brought up as a factor.

So plus side? They realized they done goofed.
The downside? They resolve to rectify that... for the next Michael Bay Transformers movie.

I see what LordGigalce means, I’ve rewatched Blackout’s base assault and the Freeway battle absent the rest of the films numerous times.

That said, it’s old hat at this point so it’s not going to lead to any appreciable further success. The next live action film that comes out regardless of script, director, and actors will be lucky to make what ROTB did. That’s just the way it is.

It's a weird situation because if another Bay movie happens it'll be at least twenty years since the first one. That's long enough for the nostalgia cycle to kick in and juice some numbers. Kids who were eight when the '07 movie will be twenty eight in two years (good G-d I need to lie down) and that's just about the age when people start getting nostalgic for their childhood.
But TLK will only be ten years old in two years, and it feels like too soon to go back to the well after that thing blarged into theatres and disappointed.

So I guess it comes down to what's more powerful in a few years? Nostalgia for the early Bay movies? Or exhaustion from how they ended?
I think this would be a more sure fire decision if Bay had kept his word and walked away after DotM. AoE and TLK really did drag things out too long.

Then again TLK made $600+ million at the box office. That's more than Bumblebee, RotB, or TFO made. Maybe Hasbro and Paramount figure even diminished returns Bay is better than the alternatives?

They really should've kept the momentum from the Bumblebee solo of carrying some of the visual style but moving away from overstuffed, thin-on-characterization/plot stuff. The wishy-washy direction the post-TLK era has had has really caused it to drag in multiple ways.

I think that's what stung so much about RotB to me personally. Bumblebee may not have reached TLK's paltry heights financially but it proved it had solid legs in theatres and was exactly what I needed after ten years(!) of Bayformers.
Bumblebee isn't a perfect movie either but I genuinely did enjoy it and what it tried to do. I was looking forward to a continuation of that direction with RotB but got Bay-lite instead.

It's why, to be brutal, I didn't really get that mad when Steven Caple Jr. got fired from the potential RotB follow-up. He seems like a genuinely good guy who has passion for the franchise, and Creed II is incredible IMO, but if he's just going to bring Michael Bay level stuff to the table... might as well just use the real deal?
Like behind the scenes stuff for RotB reveal that a lot of the issues were him? He insisted on Unicron on top of the Maximals, and he insisted it be as stand alone from Bumblebee as possible because after Creed II he didn't want to do a sequel. So overstuffed plot and disconnect from the previous movie I liked and wanted to see more of? That was him.

My TF movie desires in a post-RotB world is for more content from Travis Knight and Josh Cooley, and it seems like Cooley at least is being kept around even if they dig Bay out for a nostalgia pop.