Transformers: The Basics

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Honestly, the Last Autobot works too well for a "The 13th Will Return" prophecy since that's essentially the role he played in his original Marvel Comics appearance. He was the very last original creation of Primus before the rest of the Cybertronian race came into existence, and he showed up at the very end of the comics' original run to save Cybertron from its darkest hour and ushered in a new age of a reborn Cybertron. It was even Optimus Prime who found and awakened him, so you still get that fated connection between Optimus and the 13th with them needing to be one and same person.
 
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LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Honest, the Last Autobot works too well for a "The 13th Will Return" prophecy since that's essentially the role he played in his original Marvel Comics appearance. He was the very last original creation of Primus before the rest of the Cybertronian race came into existence, and he showed up at the very end of the comics' original run to save Cybertron from its darkest hour and ushered in a new age of a reborn Cybertron. It was even Optimus Prime who found and awakened him, so you still get that fated connection between Optimus and the 13th with them needing to be one and same person.
I'd have made the Thirteenth the Last Autobot and either made Liege Maximo the Fallen or gone ahead with "Megatronus Prime" as the Fallen but expelled Liege Maximo from the group and promoted up Logos Prime.

Having two evil guys ruins the vibe of the story where the Fallen is supposed to be a Judas figure. After all Judas is the fallen Apostle right? Not "one of two assholes." Having the Fallen and Liege co-existing in the Thirteen just doesn't work, IMO. Not for the tropes and allusions they were working towards.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I'd have made the Thirteenth the Last Autobot and either made Liege Maximo the Fallen or gone ahead with "Megatronus Prime" as the Fallen but expelled Liege Maximo from the group and promoted up Logos Prime.

Having two evil guys ruins the vibe of the story where the Fallen is supposed to be a Judas figure. After all Judas is the fallen Apostle right? Not "one of two assholes." Having the Fallen and Liege co-existing in the Thirteen just doesn't work, IMO. Not for the tropes and allusions they were working towards.
I feel like Furman's original intent behind there being two separate evil 13ers was because of there having been two separate main villains in the lore at the time: Megatron and Unicron. The Fallen would have represented the corruptive influence of Unicron's ancient evil and the Liege Maximo would have represented the forthcoming future evil of Megatron and the Decepticons. The Fallen would have been an outward traitor who openly sided against his brethren, while the Liege Maximo would have been an internal threat who kept his machinations a secret and pretended to remain loyal to his brethren, planting the seeds for a future evil yet to come in a long-term plan that his brethren would never find out about until it was too late.

In a chronological sense, The Fallen would be the first big bad of the Thirteen at the beginning of their era, while the Liege Maximo would the final big bad at the end of their reign. The Liege Maximo could have even been inspired by The Fallen, learning from his rash actions and mistakes to keep his plots more subtle and discreet.
 
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Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
The description of the Thirteenth "appearing" when the war against Unicron was already in progress, then disappearing and promising to return "When All Are One" kinda sounds like a description of a combiner.

Like, the Thirteenth is the combined form of the other Twelve, to be ultimately reformed from all Cybertronians, either as a metaphor for collective society, or literally in the form of the Swarm. . .

(Noting that in my own headcanon, the Thirteenth is actually the weakest of the Primes. The leftover. The one who appeared after every big archetype was taken [and the budget was mostly used up]. The god of the everyman. The least of them --who thus has the furthest to rise. He's not Optimus, he's their equivalent of Bumblebee.)
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
The description of the Thirteenth "appearing" when the war against Unicron was already in progress, then disappearing and promising to return "When All Are One" kinda sounds like a description of a combiner.
It's a reference to "'Till all are one."
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I feel like Furman's original intent behind there being too separate evil 13ers was because of there having been two separate main villains in the lore at the time: Megatron and Unicron. The Fallen would have represented the corruptive influence of Unicron's ancient evil and the Liege Maximo would have represented the forthcoming future evil of Megatron and the Decepticons. The Fallen would have been an outward traitor who openly sided against his brethren, while the Liege Maximo would have been an internal threat who kept his machinations a secret and pretended to remain loyal to his brethren, planting the seeds for a future evil yet to come in a long-term plan that his brethren would never find out about until it was too late.

In a chronological sense, The Fallen would be the first big bad of the Thirteen at the beginning of their era, while the Liege Maximo would the final big bad at the end of their reign. The Liege Maximo could have even been inspired by The Fallen, learning from his rash actions and mistakes to keep his plots more subtle and discreet.
That all works rather well, except that the Fallen has lost all, if not most, of his Unicron allegiances. These days the Thirteen seem to be presented as more or less a unified front against Unicron in the name of Primus, and it's only after they win that the cracks start to show and Megatronus goes bad. And now that evil influence has shifted from being something Unicron exerted on the Fallen to something the Fallen exerts on D-16/Megatron. The Fallen has, since RotF, been tied to the Decepticons. Either indirectly inspiring Megatron or outright corrupting him from beyond. Even in the universe where Megatronus genuinely wasn't a bad dude... he still serves as the inspiration for the Decepticons, with Megatron basing his faction's symbol off of his face.

Hell, the decision to give the Fallen the name "Megatronus Prime" in the first place was a move to solidify his connections to the Decepticons and pretty much abandon any and all Unicron influences that were there in DW's War Within.

So once that decision is made, to make the Fallen his own character and to tie him to the Decepticons, it leaves Liege Maximo out in the cold with no real plot other then being "the other evil guy" which does him a disservice and ruins the mythical and theological allusions they seemed to want to play to with the canonical Thirteen.
I guess you could make Liege Maximo the one with the Unicron ties if the Fallen is going to be tied to the 'Cons. IDW1 played with that idea a bit (but they also made the Maximals his descendents so YMMV) but eh... it's far more messy then it has to be.

And yeah, real life and real history is messy, but this isn't either. It's a mythology for a fictional world, and in both cases simplicity and clear allusions tend to work best because as I stated earlier, Liege pretty much has nothing to really do now, other than to be Robot Loki, a less serious sideshow act to Megatronus, the pantheon's real Big Bad.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Hence why I specified that I was referring to the original intent, from before when ROTF came along and ruined everything.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Here is the Thirteenth Prime's profile text (note that this is from a later version of the Binder that was updated multiple times since its original version, as it contains information from DOTM and AOE--which did not yet exist at the time of the Binder's original drafting--but absolutely nothing from the TF: Prime cartoon, having likely had a section about that replaced by the Earth-based events of DOTM and AOE, and features the notion of Optimus being the 13th when that was not the case in the earlier versions):
First is a sort of infobox with a general overview of the character:
NAME: Unknown

ARCHETYPE: Hero

PERSONALITY: Prophesized, Warrior-King, hidden,

HISTORY: Nothing is known of this Prime, except it is whispered that he (or she) would be revealed when times are at their darkest.

SPECIAL ABILITIES: Unified Powers of the Primes

DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: Massive size, blindingly bright

ALLIES AND ENEMIES: Ally of the Transformers, enemy of Unicron

CONTINUITY: G1 Cartoon
Note that that last point is not completely accurate since the Thirteen as a concept did not exist or originate from the G1 cartoon. A LOT of entries in the Binder were like this, using "default" continuity indicators that weren't quite right, like sometimes referring to characters or concepts who never existed in the G1 Marvel comics as originating from there.

Next up are two profile paragraphs that lean very heavily into what Archer said was the original intention for the 13th, that he was some nameless, faceless, mythological figure of no known identity.
All Cybertronian society is based around a single maxim: “’Til All Are One.” It has been passed down from generation to generation as far back as Transformer records go. Its meaning, however, means different things to different people. Does it mean, “Until all are united in peace?” Or “Until Primus and Unicron merge?” “Until the Transformers, human beings, and all other sentient beings join together in brotherhood?”

There is no single answer. However, there is an ancient belief that when the Thirteenth Prime reveals himself to the universe, they will all unite under this leadership. If he—or she—fails, then all will be consumed by darkness. If successful, though, a new Golden Age will reign across the universe. Only then will the “true” meaning of the concept—and thus, Transformer society—be revealed.
Also note how much this text reads so eerily like a retelling of the Chosen One prophecy for the Matrix of Leadership as originally featured in TFTM, which makes this text strongly read like it might be describing Rodimus Prime.

And back at BotCon 2010, when Hasbro was first really trying to hype up this new lore, it was stated that the reason Hot Rod was called "Hot Shot" in the War for Cybertron DS game instead of his trademark-friendly alternate name of just "Rodimus" (as this was back when Hasbro was still using "Rodimus" for Hot Rod since they still didn't have the "Hot Rod" trademark back yet) was because they had plans to tell the story of how this version of Hot Rod/Hot Shot becomes "Rodimus", so there were some story plans for that in the early stages of development. Combined with how similar this profile text for the 13th is to the prophecy that led to G1 Hot Rod becoming Rodimus Prime in TFTM, it all really makes me wonder if, perhaps, there was some consideration to make Rodimus be the 13th's identity (granted, I did ask Archer directly about this back at BotCon, and he said that he's not sure if they did consider that at one point, but didn't dismiss the possibility that they might have, which is a pretty neutral answer, admittedly).

...But then, the final paragraph of this profile text just goes and chucks all the coyness and pretense of the first two paragraphs right out of the window and just says that the 13th is Optimus, suggesting that this final paragraph was an addendum added to the profile in a later revision:
One day it will be revealed that Optimus Prime is the chosen one, the Thirteenth Prime. It is possible his essence was created first and put in storage until the time for his physical incarnation was right.
So much for the intended mystique. 😒
 

lastmaximal

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All the more reason to not have that Messianic archetype be the anchor for the Thirteenth. Frankly it's more boring and constrictive than it's really worth.

Barber made the best use of it, and that's by kind of sidestepping it, having Optimus leverage the possibility of it despite its not really being true.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Barber made the best use of it, and that's by kind of sidestepping it, having Optimus leverage the possibility of it despite its not really being true.
I'm not sure he did. His "the Thirteenth is some unknown guy maybe Optimus is him reincarnated *wink wink*" take is... inelegant. Though I suppose it does fit with IDW1's Euhemeric approach to the mythology. Still... it's just not a good idea, at base. Barber's attempt, as well as Ruckley's "whoever holds the Matrix is the Thirteenth" attempt in IDW2, both are trying to paddle a canoe up stream. Maybe they succeed to a degree, but the task isn't pleasant and is built on frankly terrible logic. Which was neither of their faults... it just is what it is.

Honestly? The best take on the Thirteenth was TFO. Just make #13 another guy. Zeta Prime, the Thirteenth Prime. Held the Matrix at some point. He's dead now.
You can even play with Optimus' chosen one status a bit if you go the route that Nova and Sentinel (and anyone else you wanna stick in there) between the Thirteen and Optimus were "false Primes" because Optimus becomes the first genuine Matrix bearer since the Thirteenth. So Optimus is still special, but you sidestep all the dumb baggage that comes with making him the actual Thirteenth.

Zeta as the Thirteenth is actually an extremely elegant solution. I'd say that Zeta, Nova, and Sentinel are probably the three best known of Optimus' predecessors, but Zeta is the one with the least going for him.

Nova has the "great unifier, but actually super immoral and also becomes a zombie fallen Prime" thing going for him. Got to be the big bad in a few comic arcs and made some high profile(ish) video game appearances.

Sentinel has forever been "the guy who dies so Optimus can happen," and while his characterization can flip flop between "well intentioned" and "jerk" it does seem to have settled into "jerk," with even the "good" takes on him being a prick in a "yeah you're right Donny you're just an asshole!" sort of way. Got to be the main villain in a few comic arcs, plus one of the better regarded Bayverse films. Was voiced by Spock. Also showed up a bunch in Animated, which people generally like.

But Zeta? Sometimes he's a name on a list. Sometimes he's a good guy. Sometimes he's evil. Prior to TFO his biggest roles were in WfC and IDW1. The former ended up being just another version of Sentinel anyway because no one working on the Aligned continuity actually talked to each other, and the latter was just sort of a retread of villainous Prime stuff Nova and Sentinel had already covered. Then he shows up as the noble Thirteenth in TFO.
And that is by far the best use for him. Not only does it put a recognizable name in the Thirteenth slot and spare us the lameness that is "Optimus is the Thirteenth," but it actually gives Zeta something he can own moving forward.

"Zeta Prime is the Thirteenth" is just such an elegant decision that it pains me to know it'll never get followed up on or expanded on due to TFO being a dead end. If one thing is taken from that movie to add to the larger mythos I'd want it to be that, but AotP, which had to be planned as TFO was in production, just doubled down on Optimus being the Thirteenth anyway.

tl;dr? Zeta should just be the Thirteenth from now on because it works on multiple levels.
 

lastmaximal

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That's what I'm saying. The best way to "make use" of the Messianic hoopla is to not. It's rough and at best is making the most of a dumb situation, I agree, but it's better than the option of "he IS The Guy! ... Now what". A lot of story mileage and character interactions came out of that, albeit at the expense of continuing the deconstructive "tear down pedestals" writing of the Primes and Optimus himself, which was already the direction set prior to Barber/Roberts applying that. As you say, the bad idea was already in place. (And I'm ready for something different now, but I appreciated it at the time.)

I think what I was saying is that if you HAVE to have that element there, that's one of the better ways to humor the requirement and make something of it -- the best way to make use of "Optimus is this Messiah figure" is to not.

You're right in that the counterexample from One, which I also liked a lot, is even better. It was so refreshing to find out that this story actively doesn't bother with it, making the thirteen just happen to be thirteen (of course, the question there then is why bother going over twelve, but then again, why not). (I also really liked that Megatronus was just one of them at that point and not an iconic traitor. I'd have liked it even more if they took the opportunity to dump that stupid-ass name and find another reason for D16 to rename himself that, but ah well.)

I don't know about elegant, and I would have liked it if it were any made-up new name shoved in there to take the spot, but it does make sense to just use an existing name for it. Ultimately the main thing is to abandon the Thirteenth = Chosen One plot device, and we got that.

(Another idea that might be fun is just... leave the spot blank and let various non-main characters have a claim. Is it Logos Prime? Is it one of the Guiding Hand that the legends just have an overlap on? Is it Maccadam (popularized by rumors suggesting he's separate from Alchemist Prime)? Is it Rang? Is there actually NO thirteenth? But the problem there is people are going to gravitate toward wanting that spot definitely filled, and we'd be right back where we started before very long.)
 
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LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
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Citizen
God, this is so exhausting.

I mean, I kinda like reading about it, but just the fact that they've spent the last 20 years trying to build this pantheon without any semblance of an idea of what they're doing... well, I guess they had an idea, once, but... sheesh.

The former ended up being just another version of Sentinel anyway because no one working on the Aligned continuity actually talked to each other

It disgusts me when we live in a world where communication is easier than it's ever been, and people just... don't. And then we wind up with disjointed jank like this as a result.

So Optimus is still special, but you sidestep all the dumb baggage that comes with making him the actual Thirteenth.

I remember when just being a Matrix bearer made you special.

Guess those times are long gone now.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
It disgusts me when we live in a world where communication is easier than it's ever been, and people just... don't. And then we wind up with disjointed jank like this as a result.
IIRC High Moon's games were just meant to be a sort of evergreen G1 prequel. Like... not overtly referencing any specific version of G1, just a sort of general broad slice "prequel."
It just so happens that Hasbro was planning Aligned while it was in development and they asked High Moon if they could integrate it into what they had planned, and HM said "yes."

But it shows how slapdash everything is. WfC has its own style, certainly, but it does feel like what it was planned to be, a sort of G1 prequel story/game.

And then Rescue Bots apparently wasn't supposed to be an Aligned thing, and got put in anyway. RiD '15 always was supposed to be part of it... but still aggressively did their own thing in terms of both art and story.
The only part of Aligned that felt like it was meant to be there the whole time was Prime, and even then the show runners and writers were famously frustrated by Hasbro's insistence they stick to the Binder, and would do their own thing when they wanted.

In a way it's all very true to G1, where you had a central premise but each piece of media was kind of separate. The kids books, the comic, the cartoon.
Only that was the mid 80s, when (consumer) internet and widespread cell phone usage weren't things. Aligned kicked off in 2010, well into the era of email, texting, and Skype. Like you said, how do you not get everyone on the same page when it's that easy to?

I guess actually starting a fresh continuity from the ground up and not cobbling it all together from various independent creative projects would have helped, but here we are.

It's kind of funny. Even RiD '01, which was meant to be a stopgap filler line mostly populated by repaints from other lines, had more cohesion. Hasbro's always been confident in reinventing things every few years, and most of these continuities have cohesion behind them.
The one time that didn't happen and it's the time Hasbro goes all "THIS IS THE NEW FOREVER STORY, GUYS!"

Like I donno, maybe make sure everything actually is internally consistent before declaring something the new forever lore?

I mean, I kinda like reading about it, but just the fact that they've spent the last 20 years trying to build this pantheon without any semblance of an idea of what they're doing... well, I guess they had an idea, once, but... sheesh.
IIRC Furman and some FP dudes were the ones who kind of slowly built the idea of the Thirteen in the background.
Hasbro deciding they liked the idea and were going to canonize their official version of it all wasn't bad. Not at all. And the idea of a pantheon of divine beings, or even a brotherhood of notable societal founders has roots in multiple religions and mythologies. There was always fertile ground there.

But ffs Aaron. I know you weren't a super nerd about this stuff, and in a lot of ways that was a boon to your era... but if you're doing something like this? You kinda have to be a super nerd?
Not knowing who Logos was does make sense since he only existed in a Takara-exclusive story that hadn't even been fully translated at the time, but how does the head of the Transformers brand team, in 2010, not know who the Last Autobot is?

I'm not even a Marvel G1 fan, and I knew back then at the age of 23. Just... jeeze. I know this comes off like Comic Book Guy levels of snark, but my point is you kinda have to go to that level of nerdom for what the Covenant/Aligned was supposed to do.

Just... know the lore you're trying to synthesize. Do your research. TFWiki existed back then. It was super easy to do deep dive on this stuff.

I remember when just being a Matrix bearer made you special.

Guess those times are long gone now.
I've always been fascinated by history. It's what I focused on academically. It's what I teach professionally. I've always been drawn to the idea of eras being defined by notable figures. Monarchs, Presidents, Prime Ministers. This can get a bit too navel gaze-y if you go down the "great man" route, but it's still incredibly useful to examine eras as they were defined by notable leaders who shaped society, culture, and politics.
All of this is to say that I loved the idea of the lineage of Primes, and the possible stories you could tell there. The Great War and Optimus and Rodimus' stories were obviously front and centre, but you could go "ok Sentinel, Nova, Guaridan... these were Primes. They must have been worthy and did stuff." And that's fascinating because you can then go back and fill in that backstory as you need it, and it creates this tapestry of Cybertronian history. Different eras of Primes, how they were alike, how they were different. Marvel and Sunbow, and even DW, each left a lot ground that could be explored.
And yeah, tied into that was the idea that being a Matrix bearer and Prime was special, and that Optimus was part of that lineage which made him special.
And I dig all of that.

One of the elements post-Aligned that stuck that I really hate was that this wasn't enough. Optimus was too special to merely be one in a long line of Primes, no. All of the other Primes had to be bad or even false, and no one short of robot god himself could bestow the Matrix on him.

It all just seems so limiting. This once potentially endless lineage of Cyberyronian history defined by worthy Primes who were each different, that added weight to the idea that Optimus had access to their collective wisdom, got tossed in favour of a limited "Optimus is the Chosen One and the Most Special Boy" story.

It's one reason I dig IDW2, even if most people never gave it the time of day. It really tosses a lot of that Aligned and IDW1 stuff and re-engaged with the idea that there is this long lineage of Primes that Optimus is a part of, and Optimus choosing to accept that burden is what makes him special. I think IDW2 is the first continuity since Marvel G1 where Optimus actually gets the Matrix from Sentinel. Which is kinda wild to think about.

It's a shame that, like TFO, IDW2 didn't really go anywhere. So the bits from it that I think actually work didn't get picked up by future adaptations.

Instead we're stuck with "Optimus is Robot Jesus."

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
 
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Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Having read the Binder, it's clear that Hasbro really was riding the high of the 2007 movie and all the money it made, as so much of the Binder's lore was written with the idea of that movie being the foundational cornerstone that the entire "Modern Continuity" (as the Binder referred to it more often than "Aligned") revolved around. They wanted everything new to relate back to that movie in some form, whether as a direct connection (the Exodus novel telling the story of Optimus and Megatron's friendship falling out and the launch of the AllSpark into space) or a loose tie-in (Animated being forced to feature the AllSpark as its main MacGuffin despite being its own unique continuity).

Of the first three main pieces of Aligned media (Exodus, WFC, and Prime), the Exodus novel really does feel the closest in spirit to the lore of the Binder's original text. Or at least, the book's first half does. We really never knew why the book was split halfway into two stories, but after reading the Binder, it becomes clear that the book's first half told the Binder's story of Optimus and Megatron going from friends to enemies, while the second half of the book was an adaptation of the War for Cybertron video game's story, a story that really wanted to be its own thing that called back to G1 in a general but still nostalgic geeky sense. High Moon Studios really wanted to do a G1-based game, but Hasbro wanted it to be a game for the new Modern Continuity that would eventually lead into the events of the 2007 movie.

The creators of the Prime cartoon had no love for the G1 cartoon, admired the special effects of the movies but didn't like how little personality the Autobots and Decepticons had in those, and the team was deliberately made up of people who had little or no familiarity with Transformers lore in order to try to do something fresh and bring new perspectives to the table. The only person on staff who was deep in the sauce with Transformers lore was Mairghread Scott, whom the other consulted with whenever they needed to check if what they were doing matched up with established lore or was something that had never been done before or whatever have you. In fact, the Prime creators weren't just given the Binder to draw reference from but were also told to read the Exodus novel. And... they didn't. They had Mairghread Scott read it for them and tell them about it instead. They really did not want to be bogged down since they were originally instructed to create something new from the ground up. They were willing to use the Binder as a springboard for inspiration, but not as something they wanted to be strictly beholden to. Creatives want to have the creative freedom to create their own creations. (the full story can be found in this fascinating interview)

Rescue Bots got folded in when the same people who created Prime were tasked with creating the Rescue Bots cartoon, and they figured it would only make sense for both TF cartoons being made by the same people and airing on the same network to be part of the same shared universe. Consistency and all that. RID2015 came later as a sequel to Prime, but by that point the original HasLab department at Hasbro that had been created to oversee the Aligned Continuity had been shut down in the mass layoffs that happened around that point. The Aaron Archer Hasbro team was succeeded by the John Warden Hasbro team, and the latter didn't really care about the ambitions of the former, and so they weren't as interested in making sure that RID2015 was consistent in tone and lore with the Prime cartoon or the rest of the Aligned fiction. If anything, it was Rescue Bots (the one component that was never meant to be a part of this) that ended becoming the glue that tried to hold everything together with all of its crossover episodes.

I remember when just being a Matrix bearer made you special.

Guess those times are long gone now.
When I asked Aaron why it had been decided to make the Thirteen all Primes (since they originally weren't Primes back when Furman first introduced the group as a concept), he told me it was simply to make them all sound special. While he agreed that making them all Primes begged the question of what exactly it now means to be a Prime if not an Autobot leader chosen to bear the Matrix, he also chuckled at how that's no longer a concern of his since he's not with Transformers anymore.


One of the elements post-Aligned that stuck that I really hate was that this wasn't enough. Optimus was too special to merely be one in a long line of Primes, no. All of the other Primes had to be bad or even false, and no one short of robot god himself could bestow the Matrix on him.

It all just seems so limiting. This once potentially endless lineage of Cyberyronian history defined by worthy Primes who were each different, that added weight to the idea that Optimus had access to their collective wisdom, got tossed in favour of a limited "Optimus is the Chosen One and the Most Special Boy" story.
And we can trace that all back to the kneejerk fan hate for the punk kid who got Optimus killed and stole his job back in 1986. 😒

Although, how Orci and Kurtzman wrote Optimus in the 2007 movie certainly didn't help. Before then, Optimus never spoke so formally. Even right at the very first line. "Before time began, there was the Cube. We know not where it comes from, only that it holds the power to create worlds, and fill them with life." The old Optimuses from before 2007 wouldn't have been so... Shakespearean in their dialogue. "We know not where it comes from"? G1 cartoon season 1-2 Optimus, RID2001 Optimus, and the various Garry Chalk Optimuses would have said "We don't know where it comes from," or at most, "We do not know where it comes from." But Orci and Kurtzman wanted Optimus to be larger than life on the big screen and so made him speak as grandiose as they made him appear, in the process dehumanizing him and presenting him more like an ancient godlike being of antiquity. And the financial success of that movie told Hasbro that this stoic, detached, mythological Optimus was to be the gold standard for his depiction going forward.
 
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