Transformers Legacy toyline

[unluckiness]

Off topic but Robosen pays Hasbro for the permission to make stuff that looks like Transformers characters. This has no bearing on what Hasbro does.

Making second runs of Haslab stuff sounds like a great way to tank future campaigns.

 

[Post-BayTransformersFan]

Off topic but Robosen pays Hasbro for the permission to make stuff that looks like Transformers characters. This has no bearing on what Hasbro does.

Making second runs of Haslab stuff sounds like a great way to tank future campaigns.

If you haven't noticed, Haslab is already tanking. They got cocky with Marvel after the Sentinel and Galactus, so we got the Engine of Vengeance. Got cocky with Star Wars, so we got the Rancor and Inquisitor Saber. Sooner or later, we're going to get a flop with Transformers and GI Joe. I'd rather we give the people who can't afford to spend more than $2K on an old project rather than risk a failure. But that may just be

 

[Andrusi]

The nature of toy collecting (or anything collecting, really) is that sometimes there are things you missed out on and going back to get them will be expensive.

 

[Gizmoboy]

If you haven't noticed, Haslab is already tanking. They got cocky with Marvel after the Sentinel and Galactus, so we got the Engine of Vengeance. Got cocky with Star Wars, so we got the Rancor and Inquisitor Saber. Sooner or later, we're going to get a flop with Transformers and GI Joe. I'd rather we give the people who can't afford to spend more than $2K on an old project rather than risk a failure. But that may just be

I'd hardly say HasLab is tanking. The nature of HasLab is that not everything is going to get funded. The whole point is to push the envelope beyond what they could get away with at retail. Sometimes, the items they push are even beyond what a fanbase can support or want. If that happens, said item does not get funded and Hasbro has risked very little other than prototyping cost.

 

[Post-BayTransformersFan]

I'd hardly say HasLab is tanking. The nature of HasLab is that not everything is going to get funded. The whole point is to push the envelope beyond what they could get away with at retail. Sometimes, the items they push are even beyond what a fanbase can support of want. If that happens, said item does not get funded and Hasbro has risked very little other than prototyping cost.

Habro is a multi-billion dollar company that was a juggernaut in the toy industry. They weren't worried about taking risks on Fort Max, the USS Flagg, the Defiant, etc. Taking risks is what the toy industry was founded on. The original G.I Joe was a massive risk that could have sunk Hasbro. But they took it, and it worked. If the Hassenfelds didn't risk everything, there wouldn't be Transformers because the idea of the action figure wouldn't exist. My point is that risk shouldn't fall on the customer. It should fall on the company. If you're telling me a Unicron, or a Galactus, or a Razor Crest wouldn't be a financial slam dunk, you're lying to yourself. Because the evidence is there that there is a demand

 

[Post-BayTransformersFan]

I'd hardly say HasLab is tanking. The nature of HasLab is that not everything is going to get funded. The whole point is to push the envelope beyond what they could get away with at retail. Sometimes, the items they push are even beyond what a fanbase can support or want. If that happens, said item does not get funded and Hasbro has risked very little other than prototyping cost.

And as for the retail thing, nothing is at retail. Know why? Because scalpers take figures by the dozens and re-sell them at double the price. Instead of doing package refreshes of desired figures like Netflix Soundwave and Netflix Bumblebee, we got Wheeljacks and Arcees

 

[Shadewing]

I'd hardly say HasLab is tanking. The nature of HasLab is that not everything is going to get funded. The whole point is to push the envelope beyond what they could get away with at retail. Sometimes, the items they push are even beyond what a fanbase can support or want. If that happens, said item does not get funded and Hasbro has risked very little other than prototyping cost.

Though sometimes I feel they push to far. Like the Engine of Vengeance, conceptionally its cool. But for $300 for what almost everyone agreed was unnessicary LED lights on top of not even being a licensed vehicle. I think most would have preferred dropping the electronics and letting that money go to trying to cover liscenings cost. I don't feel this leads into them failing; but I feel the brand teams don't understand their customer base that well. Transformers and GiJoe's teams do, but EoV could have had some kinda tie in to the Midnight Suns game, where he's a prominent character; that probably would have been better received then some of the figures they were gonna include. You look at some of the stuff that gets included in the TF releases, and it all makes sense for it to be bundled together. But Other teams just seem to throw in stuff even if it doesn't wholly fit. That was another complaint I recall about EoV, that while the stretch figures might have been stuff people wanted, some had little to no connection to that Ghost Rider or Ghost Rider in general.

 

[Gizmoboy]

Though sometimes I feel they push to far. Like the Engine of Vengeance, conceptionally its cool. But for $300 for what almost everyone agreed was unnessicary LED lights on top of not even being a licensed vehicle. I think most would have preferred dropping the electronics and letting that money go to trying to cover liscenings cost. I don't feel this leads into them failing; but I feel the brand teams don't understand their customer base that well. Transformers and GiJoe's teams do, but EoV could have had some kinda tie in to the Midnight Suns game, where he's a prominent character; that probably would have been better received then some of the figures they were gonna include. You look at some of the stuff that gets included in the TF releases, and it all makes sense for it to be bundled together. But Other teams just seem to throw in stuff even if it doesn't wholly fit. That was another complaint I recall about EoV, that while the stretch figures might have been stuff people wanted, some had little to no connection to that Ghost Rider or Ghost Rider in general.

I will completely agree with you on this. Great wording there Shadewing.

 

[Sabrblade]

I'd hardly say HasLab is tanking. The nature of HasLab is that not everything is going to get funded. The whole point is to push the envelope beyond what they could get away with at retail. Sometimes, the items they push are even beyond what a fanbase can support or want. If that happens, said item does not get funded and Hasbro has risked very little other than prototyping cost.

*pours another one out for the failed HasLab Cookie Monster*

 

[Dake]

Habro is a multi-billion dollar company that was a juggernaut in the toy industry. They weren't worried about taking risks on Fort Max, the USS Flagg, the Defiant, etc. Taking risks is what the toy industry was founded on. The original G.I Joe was a massive risk that could have sunk Hasbro. But they took it, and it worked. If the Hassenfelds didn't risk everything, there wouldn't be Transformers because the idea of the action figure wouldn't exist. My point is that risk shouldn't fall on the customer. It should fall on the company. If you're telling me a Unicron, or a Galactus, or a Razor Crest wouldn't be a financial slam dunk, you're lying to yourself. Because the evidence is there that there is a demand

I hate to be the first person to tell you this, but it's not 1985'ish anymore. Many things have changed in the industry in the last near-four decades. The one place you're correct is that being a multi-billion dollar company, Hasbro would much rather sell toys at regular retail. They will always make more money doing it that way than via niche crowdfunding. But those avenues for these types of items no longer exist.

On a sidenote, those big risks back in the day didn't necessarily work out either - everything you've mentioned wound up on clearance back then too.

As to this specifically...

Because the evidence is there that there is a demand

No. No it's not. The numbers for funding these projects are mere percentages of what would normally be required for even limited retail release.

Though sometimes I feel they push to far. Like the Engine of Vengeance, conceptionally its cool. But for $300 for what almost everyone agreed was unnessicary LED lights on top of not even being a licensed vehicle. I think most would have preferred dropping the electronics and letting that money go to trying to cover liscenings cost. I don't feel this leads into them failing; but I feel the brand teams don't understand their customer base that well. Transformers and GiJoe's teams do, but EoV could have had some kinda tie in to the Midnight Suns game, where he's a prominent character; that probably would have been better received then some of the figures they were gonna include. You look at some of the stuff that gets included in the TF releases, and it all makes sense for it to be bundled together. But Other teams just seem to throw in stuff even if it doesn't wholly fit. That was another complaint I recall about EoV, that while the stretch figures might have been stuff people wanted, some had little to no connection to that Ghost Rider or Ghost Rider in general.

Agree about the EoV. Ramen Toy is making a very nice one now (though being as how they just flat out don't care about licensing rights, it's certainly easier). But I think even a failure with Haslab is valuable. Every single item helps to build the picture of what the market will go for.

 

[Post-BayTransformersFan]

I hate to be the first person to tell you this, but it's not 1985'ish anymore. Many things have changed in the industry in the last near-four decades. The one place you're correct is that being a multi-billion dollar company, Hasbro would much rather sell toys at regular retail. They will always make more money doing it that way than via niche crowdfunding. But those avenues for these types of items no longer exist.

On a sidenote, those big risks back in the day didn't necessarily work out either - everything you've mentioned wound up on clearance back then too.

As to this specifically...



No. No it's not. The numbers for funding these projects are mere percentages of what would normally be required for even limited retail release.



Agree about the EoV. Ramen Toy is making a very nice one now (though being as how they just flat out don't care about licensing rights, it's certainly easier). But I think even a failure with Haslab is valuable. Every single item helps to build the picture of what the market will go for

You're right. Things are different. But the retail excuse isn't valid nowadays. Retailers don't usually carry Titans or Commanders. But Hasbro doesn't crowdfund those. Brick-and-mortar is dead. Unless you go to smaller toy stores, you can't find that kind of product. I find more Leaders in a toy store in the mall food court than at a Walmart. Keep in mind, this toy store runs off of pre-owned figures. They don't directly order things from Hasbro. And you're right: not every risk works. Pretenders, Action Master, etc. But Beast Wars was a risk. Armada was a risk. Classics was a risk. And if you're going to charge $600 dollars for a figure, make sure it has ALL paint apps that were shown off and doesn't need assistance standing up

 

[Sciflyer]

I'm not sure what the argument is anymore, but my HasLab Unicron does not need any assistance standing up. His display stand is great and all, but I've got him posed rather nicely without it, and he continues to support himself just fine.

 

[Princess Viola]

If he can support himself just fine why doesn't he get a job?

 

[Donocropolis]

If he can support himself just fine why doesn't he get a job?

He's a trust fund baby.

 

[MrBlud]

I will say, Takara getting out a $1,000 or so Grand Dion as they are makes me rather suspicious that the market couldn’t support Unicron as Grand Dion has significantly less cultural cache.

 

[Sciflyer]

If he can support himself just fine why doesn't he get a job?

Oh, he's got one. His current position is Chaos Bringer, wherein he regularly performs all duties as assigned.

 

[Undead Scottsman]

It's important to note that Haslab isn't really a crowdfunding service; it's a made-to-order preorder service with a minimum required production number. It just masquerades as a crowdfunding service. It's not Kickstarter no matter how much they want it to look like Kickstarter.

Also note that demand for a $550 (would cost even more now) Unicron was low enough that they had to cheat on that campaign and extend it out in order to get it over the finish line. It would have totally tanked at retail without the FOMO of "This is the only time this will ever be offered" hanging over it.

 

[Sabrblade]

I will say, Takara getting out a $1,000 or so Grand Dion as they are makes me rather suspicious that the market couldn’t support Unicron as Grand Dion has significantly less cultural cache.

I guess it just boils down to the old notion of fictional giant piloted robots being more popular in Japan than fictional giant living robots.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Rock lords when we can’t even get Gobots that aren’t quick and easy repaints. What a world.

It might be a little easier to do since a lot of the Gobots designs are owned by other companies if I am right, even if Hasbro owns the characters. Maybe these won't be Rock Lord's though I am hoping ...need at least a version of Nugget.

I mean Rock Lords designs would also be owned by Bandai since they were in Machine Robo too.

Getting into the weeds a bit re: copyright and trademark. Copyright would apply to the specific toys of the Rock Lords back in the day. Get too close to those, and arguably Bandai could have a claim to win a lawsuit. Copyright lasts a long time. Decades.

Trademark, on the other hand, applies to the names and characters, but doesn't last for more than a few years unless actively maintained by the rightsholder. Thus, in the absence of any new Rock Lords media in decades, Hasbro would have legitimacy in creating new toys for those characters, so long as they don't resemble the originals so closely as to trigger a copyright infringement suit.


Also note that, while the only GoBots we've gotten have been "quick and easy repaints," a rock design, in and of itself, is likely to be able to repurposed a great number of times. Hasbro may consider that worth the investment.

 

[Superomegaprime]

With the Star Wars Haslabs, I would say the resent failures is partly down to misunderstanding what the fans want and expect of a product, I do kind of expect maybe one day, Hasbro might revisit the Rankor, of course, one also needs to factor in the fact a lot of fans are feeling disintersted right now after seeing a bunch of bad products produced by Lucasfilm and people working for them, actively going out of their way to insuilt them online, plus the media running with this Toxic fandom narative, thou I would says its more toxic media than fandom, so people are walking away from Star Wars and Disney in general, but that is a whole another story, full of stupidy and bad management choices!

Rock Lords, I recall handling one as a kid, belonging to a friend (at the time) but it wasn't really something great, so Rocklords today, their alt modes would make great paper weights, thou if they were to do them, I can see a crossover with Star Wars, High Republic being done, thou it would be a one off because, well, they are a rock: