Just give it the Premium Finish treatment. It doesn't need much.
It's not that people didn't want it to be Optimal Optimus, It's that people wanted it to be able to do all the things that the original could do, to be an update that was as good (if not better than) the original toy, even if that meant it being a little smaller to fit in the Leader Class price assortment.
The original toy existed before season 3 of the cartoon did, meaning it was created independently of the show's in-universe origin story. Hasbro made the toy on their own, then the show had to come up with its own explanation for it afterward.
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I love Beast Wars, but I always felt that Primal was the least interesting, most boring, and all around worst possible option for the poll. Of course, I also responded to a question about who should be the 20th anniversary figure that would become MP-1 with, "anyone other than Optimus Prime," so I might be a bit outside mainstream thought here.
My top choices were Megatron, Deathsaurus, and Star Saber. I also would have been OK with Ultra Magnus, Thunderwing, Arcee, or Shockwave. I know a lot of people talked about Hound, but I had no interest in him. Primal was dead last in my rankings.
In hindsight, knowing the gimmick, I definitely would have reorganized my standings. Megatron into Galvatron would have still been my top choice. Star Saber, Magnus, and Thunderwing would have been the next tier. I would have been curious about Arcee or Shockwave, but neither stood out to me. I still would have really wanted a Deathsaurus, but I don't think the Evolution gimmick would have been a great fit, though maybe they could have done something interesting with his beast partners. Hound and Primal were still the least interesting choices, even if Primal was admittedly a good fit for the gimmick.
With even more hindsight, after getting HasLab Deathsaurus and Star Saber, plus Kingdom Magnus... well, I still would've really liked a Megatron that evolved into Galvatron. After that though, I think Thunderwing is the option on the list that would have had the most lasting appeal. I'd imagine the small figure being the inner robot, with the evolved form being his shell. That's something that would have still been part of the core collection in my primary display case today. I actually really wish he had won, now. And I say that as someone who really disliked the Marvel comics.
My top choices were Megatron, Deathsaurus, and Star Saber. I also would have been OK with Ultra Magnus, Thunderwing, Arcee, or Shockwave. I know a lot of people talked about Hound, but I had no interest in him. Primal was dead last in my rankings.
In hindsight, knowing the gimmick, I definitely would have reorganized my standings. Megatron into Galvatron would have still been my top choice. Star Saber, Magnus, and Thunderwing would have been the next tier. I would have been curious about Arcee or Shockwave, but neither stood out to me. I still would have really wanted a Deathsaurus, but I don't think the Evolution gimmick would have been a great fit, though maybe they could have done something interesting with his beast partners. Hound and Primal were still the least interesting choices, even if Primal was admittedly a good fit for the gimmick.
With even more hindsight, after getting HasLab Deathsaurus and Star Saber, plus Kingdom Magnus... well, I still would've really liked a Megatron that evolved into Galvatron. After that though, I think Thunderwing is the option on the list that would have had the most lasting appeal. I'd imagine the small figure being the inner robot, with the evolved form being his shell. That's something that would have still been part of the core collection in my primary display case today. I actually really wish he had won, now. And I say that as someone who really disliked the Marvel comics.
"Arceus Prima"
Anyway, I think Arcee and Ultra Magnus were my initial votes, and then I went to Primal when they fell out in the later rounds.
I was voting more on "Who deserves to be a Prime?" than any sort of toy gimmick.
Judging from the artwork used in the poll, it might have instead been a Megatron that evolved into Super Megatron instead of Galvatron. Years later, Takara would give us their own take on Super Megatron that not only doubled as Ultra Megatron, but also tripled as the newly created Megatron Omega.
As for Thunderwing, since the Evolution gimmick wasn't yet known at the time, most probably assumed that he would just be a mere retool of Titans Return Sky Shadow, which may have deterred some from voting for him.
As for Thunderwing, since the Evolution gimmick wasn't yet known at the time, most probably assumed that he would just be a mere retool of Titans Return Sky Shadow, which may have deterred some from voting for him.
So like, is this a remold of the Legacy Lio Convoy we got before? Or something new for the anniversary?
It's a retool of the Legacy mold to give it the anime lion face.
With some repainted parts (gold mane, possibly white faceplate and abs)?
And when that toy was released I was eleven, the internet was something my parents used, and I was first introduced to the form via Beasties when Optimus Primal got it after taking in the Spark of Optimus Prime in a very Matrix-y looking container.
I don't think I saw the toy for another couple of months. Canada wasn't exactly known for the best distribution. I think Canadian Walmarts are still waiting on their RiD Scourges
Point is that, to me (and I've only ever defended the PotP toy from my perspective), this form of Primal was specifically a very special upgrade he got because he took in Prime's spark. That episode is lodged in my brain as one of the more important episodes of TF tv, and as such the importance of why he got the upgrade always seemed more important to me than his quad-changer status.
'cause I never had that original toy. It was big, expensive, and a character my parents had bought three times already (four if you consider they thought Optimus Prime and Primal were the same guy).
My longing for a version of that form wasn't based on the fact that he could awkwardly form a car made out of robot monkey parts. It was based on being the body that Primal got when he held Optimus Prime's spark.
Later on in uni I gained some more appreciation for it when I binged Beast Machines. Which was primarily concerned with the jet mode.
So when PotP Optimal Optimus came along...
1 he fit the theme
2 he allowed me to get a version of this design without breaking the bank on an aftermarket figure in good condition
3 he did everything I needed him to do (robot, gorilla, jet) plus a little extra (a fun Cybertronian mode Primal)
I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling like it didn't meet your expectations. I'm just saying I'm not wrong either.
What we get out of these characters and designs is ultimately personal and context dependent. It's the Ultra Magnus issue. Do you value him as a functional car carrier or do you want the figure to focus on the armour up gimmick? There's no right answer. Just whatever about the design/character resonates with you.
For me what resonated with the Optimal Optimus design was satisfactorily represented by the PotP toy.
The funny part is... I didn't even vote for Primal. I wanted Star Sabre, and had to pay crowd funding prices to eventually get him.
Primal wasn't even on my backup list (I wouldn't have minded a Hound W). Yet when the toy came out I was like "hey this is pretty good" only to find out later that everyone who apparently did vote for Primal hated it and assumed Hasbro was personally slighting them for "ruining" their fan poll.
Ah, yes, so that we could then instead complain that it was a completely pointless toy because the original did all the same things and was slightly bigger.
Man, I die a little bit every time I see a quote like this.
Right, because every single person in this fandom was already in possession of the original at the time of POTP.
Right, because every single person in this fandom was already in possession of the original at the time of POTP.
That sounds like a you problem.
I still have mine. But not everyone does.That sounds like a you problem.
You know, making a Transformers Legacy line is kind of a fine-line balance, isn't it? Modern toy engineering CAN improve on figures from G1 and early G2 (but that doesn't automatically mean that it does), but from Beast Wars onwards, the improvements generally tend to be less drastic, and often (again, not always) at the expense of play features or gimmicks.
If they only feature the figures that genuinely improve on the originals, the line becomes "nothing but Geewun". But, when they update characters from later lines, those figures invariably get compared to the originals, and sometimes not favorably. There are trade-offs that have to happen, and they won't make everyone happy. On the other hand, that those characters get new figures alongside the G1 updates is pretty cool, and helps the line celebrate the entirety of Transformers history.
If they only feature the figures that genuinely improve on the originals, the line becomes "nothing but Geewun". But, when they update characters from later lines, those figures invariably get compared to the originals, and sometimes not favorably. There are trade-offs that have to happen, and they won't make everyone happy. On the other hand, that those characters get new figures alongside the G1 updates is pretty cool, and helps the line celebrate the entirety of Transformers history.
I like how this discussion presupposes that there ‘s somehow a way that the toy could be made that would result in no dumb nitpick comments. This is the internet.
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I've felt that since they introduced Beast Wars in Kingdom, but as they get to Cybertron it becomes even more clear. The Hot Shot from Cybertron is eerily similar. I'm happy to have the new one mind you, but it's like a lightly scaled down version.
This is gorgeous, but I'd rather they give it the Selects Primal Prime treatment.
Well, for me it was recently RID Omega Prime and Sideburn. The former being overpriced and alienating many fans (plus being too big for a regular collection) and the latter's extremely poor alt mode and flame detailing.
This only makes sense, as "add articulation" becomes less effective as a move when applied to generations already engineered with it. Then it becomes about improving proportions or changing up the articulation that was already there (hopefully for the better). Burn Out is a bigger "leap" than Prime Arcee, but sometimes you'll get a Cybertron Override whose original toy was a bit hamstrung by a gimmick.
One thing that complicates it a lot is the need to find a way to maximize the tooling for more than one release, AND more often than not, for beyond the expected options. This IS Transformers, so there are built-in redeco and retool options, but for Legacy there's been the drive to reuse tooling beyond those to represent more generations -- and, while I appreciate the representation, the results can be mixed (Strongarm, Side Burn).
But it's getting us things like Filch, Flame, and so on, so I can't complain too much.
It's a lot to juggle, but it's nice to watch them juggle.