Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: stock renders of upcoming Alpha Trion, Micronus, Flatline, Fireflight, Skydive, ++

[Swerve]

Maybe we should have a Prime of yellowing plastic.

 

[Shadewing]

Maybe we should have a Prime of yellowing plastic.

We already have Piss Magnus:

 

[wonko the sane?]

He needs to drink more water. That is not healthy.

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

When life gives you lemons, build powered armor out of them.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

When life gives you lemons, build powered armor out of them.

"...and then DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! MAKE LIFE RUE THE DAY IT THOUGHT IT COULD GIVE CAVE JOHNSON LEMONS!!"

 

[Lobjob]

The issue is that the Thirteen were developed in a slapdash manner. A lot of the roster was plucked from previous fiction (oh Prima is the first Matrix bearer in Marvel? Let's use him. Oh Alpha Trion was really old and wise in Sunbow G1? Let's use him).

When they canonized the "definitive" roster they did that and came up short of thirteen names. Solus, Micronus, Onyx, Amalgamous, and Quintas were just created out of nothing to fill out the roster. And Hasbro wasn't going to put off the launch of the Thirteen to seed five new characters in new shows or comics or whatever to slow burn the concept.

tbf they did try. Micronus got some shine in IDW1 and RiD '15. Onyx seemed to get something significant in IDW1 until it was revealed he was Shockwave the whole time (one of a few things that turned IDW1 from something I was a fan of into something I was eyerolling at). Quintas pops up in EarthSpark. Solus herself doesn't get much but I'd argue Windblade's arc in IDW1 does a lot to flesh out why she's important even if we don't get much info on her personally.

Again, the IRL inspirations for the Thirteen are themselves broad stroke archetypes so... like... I don't think making each one a well rounded character was necessarily the goal? They're archetypical legendary founding figures. Background lore.

It definitely wasn't their goal, but I'd debate that it should have been. They would just be way more fun, especially now that we got an entire line centered around them.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Not to get too deep into religion... but I'm Jewish, and in Judaism we have the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Which is explained, theologically, as the Israelites being descended from each of the twelve sons of Jacob, aka Israel.
These patriarchs of the Tribes are... well... not exactly fleshed out in scripture.

They're archetypes. Maybe based on real people, maybe amalgamations of different figures, maybe wholly fictional... but regardless, what is written about them primarily serves to explain and give context to each Tribe within the broader community of ancient Israelites.

All of this is to say that because of my own religious background the Thirteen don't really bother me because they fit a recognizable context. I can see what they're trying to do.
Stuff like them being the first of each different type of Transformer, or being short on fleshed out characterization, doesn't necessarily bother me because it fits with what I think was one of the inspirations.

These aren't necessarily supposed to be fleshed out and well rounded characters. They're mythical archetypes and patriarchs (and matriarch in Solus' case) whose exploits are supposed to be the realm of the deepest, furthest myths and legends.
Are they supposed to be actual semi-divine figures? Normal Cybertronians whose exploits were mythologized? Or wholly legendary with no historical basis? Well I'd argue just like IRL myths and legends that inspired the Thirteen... that's up for you to decide, and that's half the fun. Everyone comes at it with their own perspective. I myself prefer a more Euhemeristic take, so IDW1 intrigued me until Barber made everything Shockwave's fault.

I guess what I'm saying is that large chunks of the Thirteen not having many fictional appearances to flesh them out doesn't bother me. Being well rounded characters wasn't the point, strictly speaking. The whole concept is mirroring IRL pantheons and founding myths that treat founding figures as archetypes.

Does this mean that Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime is Jesus?

Or would that be Optimus Primal, via the Trukk Not Munky crowd?

 

[unluckiness]

Optimus as the 13th is divinity turned mortal and lived among the regular robots. Dies and resurrects a lot as well. He’s definitely Jesus.

Rodimus is Peter I guess? Magnus being the hand-picked successor muddles the analogy.

 

[Superomegaprime]

Maybe we should have a Prime of yellowing plastic.

Don't forget the lost prime of GPS and the Prime of Comsic Rust!!

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

Don't forget the lost prime of GPS and the Prime of Comsic Rust!!

Let me know when we get to Shatterion, the Prime of GPS. I hear he's just a Titan box full of old G2 Slingshot and Electro remains. The Takara release mixes in BW Neo Randy and calls his self-destruction and action gimmick.

 

[Sabrblade]

Optimus as the 13th is divinity turned mortal and lived among the regular robots. Dies and resurrects a lot as well. He’s definitely Jesus.

Rodimus is Peter I guess? Magnus being the hand-picked successor muddles the analogy.

When I was at BotCon earlier this year, Flint Dille said at one of his panels said that he likened Hot Rod being chosen by the Matrix to King Arthur being chosen by Excalibur (that is, if you watered down the story of Arthur pulling the sword from the stone to its most basic elements).

 

[LordGigaIce]

Does this mean that Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime is Jesus?

Or would that be Optimus Primal, via the Trukk Not Munky crowd?

Optimus as the 13th is divinity turned mortal and lived among the regular robots. Dies and resurrects a lot as well. He’s definitely Jesus.

Rodimus is Peter I guess? Magnus being the hand-picked successor muddles the analogy.

Rodimus originally filled a narrative role very much in line with Jewish messianic prophecy whereby the Messiah will come at some point in the future.

Optimus getting turned into the Thirteenth supplanted that with a Christian re-interpretation of this, that the Messiah has already come and will come again.

Which is kinda funny on a few levels, how that all worked out.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

I was saying Rodimus because I know there are some people who won't accept him in that role.

"There is a Chosen One, but it is not Rodimus."

 

[Sabrblade]

I was saying Rodimus because I know there are some people who won't accept him in that role.

"There is a Chosen One, but it is not Rodimus."

"It is Wheelie."

 

[Donocropolis]

"It is Wheelie."

It's Blot. He's as surprised as anyone.

 

[Steadfast]

It's Blot. He's as surprised as anyone.

Only the true Messiah denies he's the Messiah!

 

[Sabrblade]

It's Pikachu!

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

He fainted for your sins.

 

[Stepwise]

Two days behind on this thread because things got busy, but IDW has the 13 and the guiding hand and the Knights and there may have been more that I'm not remembering.

G1 had conflicting origins, and it gets even more convoluted when we mention comics or JG1.

Seems like both of these are big-picture parallels to real life, though. How many different creation stores do we have across different cultures? Also - how often do they contradict themselves? Bringing this up w/out the intent of starting a religious discussion, just pointing out a parallel - the book of Genesis has descriptions a chapter or two apart that give two different orders for creation.

And as far as names of Primes - Emeritus Prime, the first one who got to pass the Matrix off to someone else and then watch the new guy do all the hard work.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Seems like both of these are big-picture parallels to real life, though. How many different creation stores do we have across different cultures? Also - how often do they contradict themselves? Bringing this up w/out the intent of starting a religious discussion, just pointing out a parallel - the book of Genesis has descriptions a chapter or two apart that give two different orders for creation.

It's one thing if someone sat down to intentionally create a muddy mythology to mirror IRL. This has happened before. World of Warcraft seeded the overworld with books you could read that gave contradictory info on myths, origins, etc... to mirror the idea that there are alternate takes and some theories that are just wrong out there.

But in the case of the Thirteen we know Hasbro tried to create a coherent mythology and it just didn't pan out because the people heading it didn't do a very good job, and the various creatives on various branches of the brand weren't unified/wanted to do their own things anyway.

I donno. I appreciate some vagueness because you're right, it can be very true to life, but I know too much about how this specific sausage was made to fully buy into that in this case.