Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: stock renders of upcoming Alpha Trion, Micronus, Flatline, Fireflight, Skydive, ++

[Blot]

Not call them a number?

I mean, you could have a smaller group and call them ”The CoreSpark”, “Knights of Cybertron”, “Guardians of Primus”. Though, I’m not a fan of the apparent NEED by prior brand stewards to associate ANY and ALL conceivable aspects of a Transformer to an originator. I don’t feel there NEEDED to be a “first combiner”, “first beast”, “first micro” or “first multichanger”. I kind of view them all as natural (or maybe unnatural depending on how you lore the combiners or multichangers) extensions of a species that changes between forms.

The Four or Five or So sounds much less epic.

But seriously, if you list out separate aspects/attributes for each invidual of the However Many (combiner, bad one, beast guy, inventor, etc) it does all add up.

No, double down on it. Keep going way beyond The Thirteen. Add Soloculus, the Prime of Light Piping. Deciballus, the Prime of Soundboxes. Grandblast, the Prime of Spring Loaded Firing Missiles. Adequateblast, the Prime of Friction Firing Missiles. Until every gimmick is explained.

 

[lastmaximal]

*naturally-occuring gears and pulleys have entered the chat

And wouldn't you know it, exactly thirteen of them

 

[wonko the sane?]

There's only twelve: that one over there is a compound gear.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

There's only twelve: that one over there is a compound gear.

Man, what a gearist. Just because it’s not a standard gear doesn’t make it any less a gear!

 

[Andrusi]

Man, what a gearist. Just because it’s not a standard gear doesn’t make it any less a gear!

No, he means it's a compound gear, not two regular gears.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Not to get too deep into religion... but I'm Jewish, and in Judaism we have the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Which is explained, theologically, as the Israelites being descended from each of the twelve sons of Jacob, aka Israel.
These patriarchs of the Tribes are... well... not exactly fleshed out in scripture.

They're archetypes. Maybe based on real people, maybe amalgamations of different figures, maybe wholly fictional... but regardless, what is written about them primarily serves to explain and give context to each Tribe within the broader community of ancient Israelites.

All of this is to say that because of my own religious background the Thirteen don't really bother me because they fit a recognizable context. I can see what they're trying to do.
Stuff like them being the first of each different type of Transformer, or being short on fleshed out characterization, doesn't necessarily bother me because it fits with what I think was one of the inspirations.

These aren't necessarily supposed to be fleshed out and well rounded characters. They're mythical archetypes and patriarchs (and matriarch in Solus' case) whose exploits are supposed to be the realm of the deepest, furthest myths and legends.
Are they supposed to be actual semi-divine figures? Normal Cybertronians whose exploits were mythologized? Or wholly legendary with no historical basis? Well I'd argue just like IRL myths and legends that inspired the Thirteen... that's up for you to decide, and that's half the fun. Everyone comes at it with their own perspective. I myself prefer a more Euhemeristic take, so IDW1 intrigued me until Barber made everything Shockwave's fault.

I guess what I'm saying is that large chunks of the Thirteen not having many fictional appearances to flesh them out doesn't bother me. Being well rounded characters wasn't the point, strictly speaking. The whole concept is mirroring IRL pantheons and founding myths that treat founding figures as archetypes.

 

[Lobjob]

I would have loved one (or 2) member to get the attention Vector Prime got in whatever the current series was, allowing for them to be a character in their own right, THEN be revealed to be a member of the 13. Like we've said, Alpha Trion got it. The Fallen got it. Maccadam got it. Liege Maximo was already established. Prima also. Vector Prime, of course. Like, this would have been how to make them epic and span literal decades. Almost like a Battlestar Galactica ( man i am old) plot.

"Who are the 13???"

Unfortunately the covenant book didnt set the fandom on fire and just checked boxes to *get* us to 13, because there had to be 13. The remaiming characters should have (and still should) had their own moments to shine.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I would have loved one (or 2) member to get the attention Vector Prime got in whatever the current series was, allowing for them to be a character in their own right, THEN be revealed to be a member of the 13. Like we've said, Alpha Trion got it. The Fallen got it. Maccadam got it. Liege Maximo was already established. Prima also. Vector Prime, of course. Like, this would have been how to make them epic and span literal decades. Almost like a Battlestar Galactica ( man i am old) plot.

"Who are the 13???"

Unfortunately the covenant book didnt set the fandom on fire and just checked boxes to *get* us to 13, because there had to be 13. The remaiming characters should have (and still should) had their own moments to shine.

The issue is that the Thirteen were developed in a slapdash manner. A lot of the roster was plucked from previous fiction (oh Prima is the first Matrix bearer in Marvel? Let's use him. Oh Alpha Trion was really old and wise in Sunbow G1? Let's use him).

When they canonized the "definitive" roster they did that and came up short of thirteen names. Solus, Micronus, Onyx, Amalgamous, and Quintas were just created out of nothing to fill out the roster. And Hasbro wasn't going to put off the launch of the Thirteen to seed five new characters in new shows or comics or whatever to slow burn the concept.

tbf they did try. Micronus got some shine in IDW1 and RiD '15. Onyx seemed to get something significant in IDW1 until it was revealed he was Shockwave the whole time (one of a few things that turned IDW1 from something I was a fan of into something I was eyerolling at). Quintas pops up in EarthSpark. Solus herself doesn't get much but I'd argue Windblade's arc in IDW1 does a lot to flesh out why she's important even if we don't get much info on her personally.

Again, the IRL inspirations for the Thirteen are themselves broad stroke archetypes so... like... I don't think making each one a well rounded character was necessarily the goal? They're archetypical legendary founding figures. Background lore.

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

I think by the time you've changed the number of people in the group and who makes up that group and given it a new name, you've less pared down the group and just basically created a new one.

The Guiding Hand has entered the chat.

 

[LordGigaIce]

The Guiding Hand has entered the chat.

IDW1 had The Guiding Hand, the Knights of Cybertron, and then the Thirteen. Kind of fitting in a meta way that IDW's initial deep lore backstory was as haphazardly put together as the Thirteen were as a concept.

 

[Cybersnark]

Maybe part of what keeps mythical figures mythical is that limited exposure and humanization. They can't be on a pedestal and walking among us at the same time, and they may serve more of a purpose being on the pedestal.

Thinking about it, this kinda cuts to what I have always loved about Optimus himself ever since G1 (and what a lot of modern takes get wrong); he's the Epic Hero, the Greatest Autobot Leader in History. . . but he's also a compassionate father-figure, who makes quips, plays basketball, and sometimes even screws up and has to get rescued.

I've always loved that potential conflict between how most (Cybertronian) Autobots see him (as the Prime, the Matrix-Bearer, the [possible] Thirteenth) and how his crewmates on the Ark have come to see him after spending years together in exile (just "Optimus").

(This is why Aileron is one of my favourite IDW characters, who I want to show up in other universes.)

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

IDW1 had The Guiding Hand, the Knights of Cybertron, and then the Thirteen. Kind of fitting in a meta way that IDW's initial deep lore backstory was as haphazardly put together as the Thirteen were as a concept.

The Knights weren't supposed to be a creator group like the Hand or the Thirteen. They were the first generation after them.

But yeah, the whole mess really brings up how the writers of the post-Chaos ongoings didn't seem to communicate much. (That and how blatantly the Lost Light crew had to be shanghaied back into whatever Crisis event was going on, but that's a different problem.)

 

[Steadfast]

No, double down on it. Keep going way beyond The Thirteen. Add Soloculus, the Prime of Light Piping. Deciballus, the Prime of Soundboxes. Grandblast, the Prime of Spring Loaded Firing Missiles. Adequateblast, the Prime of Friction Firing Missiles. Until every gimmick is explained.

i wanna see Mutantheadicus and Glowicon
maybe as the same guy

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

Let me know when we get to Shatterion, the Prime of GPS. I hear he's just a Titan box full of old G2 Slingshot and Electro remains. The Takara release mixes in BW Neo Randy and calls his self-destruction and action gimmick.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I hate the attempt to have the Thirteen represent all the gimmicks. I guess Transformer life never had any potential, just a plan set in stone at the beginning of time. It's another way Transformer history has been absolutely flattened in modern tellings.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I hate the attempt to have the Thirteen represent all the gimmicks. I guess Transformer life never had any potential, just a plan set in stone at the beginning of time. It's another way Transformer history has been absolutely flattened in modern tellings.

It all depends on how you tell it. I don't mind the idea that Cybertronians would look around and the varied nature of their species and that myths would crop up, maybe about historical figures, to give context to these different groups and types. We humans have been doing that as long as we've been around. In that way it can actually reflect the varied and layered myth making of our own world.

As I said, it's all dependent on how it's told.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

What's funny is the G1 cartoon accidentally did the mythical history thing better than all these modern attempts to do it on purpose. It was written in bits and pieces over time by multiple writers who didn't care about staying strictly consistent with each other's work and didn't know anyone would be trying to make sense of it all today.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Yeah yeah, trukk not monky. Heard it all before, geewunner.

 

[LordGigaIce]

What's funny is the G1 cartoon accidentally did the mythical history thing better than all these modern attempts to do it on purpose. It was written in bits and pieces over time by multiple writers who didn't care about staying strictly consistent with each other's work and didn't know anyone would be trying to make sense of it all today.

It's like how no Transformers show will ever make an episode as good as Triple Takeover.

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

They can't let Blitzwing get any more points, he might become unstoppable.