Transformers: Age of the Primes Thread: ll First Post All Listings II Update : April 12th, 2027 Bonus Wave: Repaint fun, Beast Wars, G2, Machine Wars

The Predaking

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I guess there's one upside in this case that helps: Swindle isn't going to be arriving until after Onslaught anyway. If I were just waiting on Onslaught to be able to complete the team and form Bruticus, it would be MUCH harder to show any restraint.
Same! They really should release the figures in one wave. I know the arguments about wave diversity, but it is ridiculous because in reality, every other wave is impossible to find at retailers. Retailers seem to want to order tons of wave 1, no wave 2, some wave three, and then pretend the rest of the line doesn't exist.

I mean, get it all out at once, let people find it all together. Or just offer a boxset on Hasbro Pulse on day 1.
 

CoffeeHorse

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Hasbro is still holding on to the dream that they can make retailers care about the wave system, but it's just not going to happen.
 

Gizmoboy

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I actually kind of like the way they trickle out the combiner teams. It forces me to display the individual bots for a longer period of time. Same thing happened with Menasor for me.
 

The Predaking

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Well, I am concerned about the future of the brand with combiners. Like how will a kid know to start collecting each one? Without the giant media storm that G1 had, kids don't know or care about Bruticus or Menasor. So having them as an option as a giftset really will help towards that as well as giving us old farts a method of just getting the set on day one.
 

Exatron

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Hasbro is still holding on to the dream that they can make retailers care about the wave system, but it's just not going to happen.
I think the biggest problem with how the wave system works is the giant disconnect between how manufacturers populate them and how retailers order them.

Manufacturers like Hasbro want to evenly space out their product over the course of a year. They'll have three or four waves a year, roughly equally spaced out, and usually with the wave contents equally distributed (with instances of shortpacking being particularly notable).

Meanwhile, retailers want to order a bunch of new product for their post-holiday reset, then just replenish their shelves as needed. They don't care what particular items are in a case of Product X, just that it moves from their shelves to consumers' hands as quickly as possible while making them some money through the use of their space and distribution systems.

I think the only real solution to this is for manufacturers to bite the bullet and upend their way of doing things to better align with retail. Instead of sprinkling their new stuff evenly throughout the year, front-load the first wave of the year with most of the new product. E.g., instead of four new Deluxes shipping in wave 1 with two of each per box of eight, make it eight single-packed figures. Maybe double up one one or two of them if they're expected to sell significantly better than the others. Then later waves that get fewer orders could be something like two figures at four per package. Or maybe four of a single new figure, and fill out the rest of the case with a couple package refreshes.

I don't know if this is feasible from the manufacturer side of things. It would require them to front-load all their design, manufacturing, and shipping operations to have the bulk of their offerings all ready to go at one time. That would be a huge shakeup, and there would undoubtedly be a big learning curve with some very costly issues. But the wind-up would be that they could potentially better align how many of each figure they're producing with how many of each customers want to buy without having the retailer as a huge choke point in the middle.

The bigger question might be, with the rise of online shopping and the demise of brick & mortar retail, would any of that be worth the effort at this point?
 

The Predaking

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It would definitely require manufacturers to stop using the 'Just in Time' method of production, and make everything at once and store it for distribution to retailers.

However, given how much lead time they seem to have on these toylines, you think that it would be feasible.
 

Undead Scottsman

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Honestly, I think we're approach the time, if not having passed it already, to ask the question of if adults have suprassed kids in regards to the primary consumer of the Genertions/Studio series figures.
 

Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
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I think the biggest problem with how the wave system works is the giant disconnect between how manufacturers populate them and how retailers order them.

Manufacturers like Hasbro want to evenly space out their product over the course of a year. They'll have three or four waves a year, roughly equally spaced out, and usually with the wave contents equally distributed (with instances of shortpacking being particularly notable).

Meanwhile, retailers want to order a bunch of new product for their post-holiday reset, then just replenish their shelves as needed. They don't care what particular items are in a case of Product X, just that it moves from their shelves to consumers' hands as quickly as possible while making them some money through the use of their space and distribution systems.

I think the only real solution to this is for manufacturers to bite the bullet and upend their way of doing things to better align with retail. Instead of sprinkling their new stuff evenly throughout the year, front-load the first wave of the year with most of the new product. E.g., instead of four new Deluxes shipping in wave 1 with two of each per box of eight, make it eight single-packed figures. Maybe double up one one or two of them if they're expected to sell significantly better than the others. Then later waves that get fewer orders could be something like two figures at four per package. Or maybe four of a single new figure, and fill out the rest of the case with a couple package refreshes.

I don't know if this is feasible from the manufacturer side of things. It would require them to front-load all their design, manufacturing, and shipping operations to have the bulk of their offerings all ready to go at one time. That would be a huge shakeup, and there would undoubtedly be a big learning curve with some very costly issues. But the wind-up would be that they could potentially better align how many of each figure they're producing with how many of each customers want to buy without having the retailer as a huge choke point in the middle.

The bigger question might be, with the rise of online shopping and the demise of brick & mortar retail, would any of that be worth the effort at this point?
We're actually starting to see that crop up, in some segments.

The problem is the contrarian actions of many retailers, particularly, Walmart. Modern "waves" were pushed by retailers as an incentive to keep customers coming back. But with changing consumer habits...I'm not sure that is necessary anymore. Kids, in general, don't get as much as frequently as we did thanks to a myriad of other distractions. Collectors are primarily where the plastic addiction has settled, but it seems like a frequent refresh of product isn't really driving much on the actual kid side of things.
Retailers pushed for smaller assortments/smaller cases so they wouldn't be sitting on product...but then don't fill their own damn pegs.

I have observed at Walmart, especially, is more prone to carrying a "single item" than they used to be. They don't carry a "Spider-Man: BND Actionverse" figure assortment, they JUST stock Hulk and the base Spider-Man (meaning this store won't actively stock Scorpion or the black Spider-Man deco). Many have never carried a "Prime Changers" assortment, it's just been character specific. My store JUST carried Prime and Bumblebee for TFOne. This spring, they have two pegs for Optimus Prime, one for Bumblebee and one for Megatron. It remains to be seen if that will change for the holidays. The Star Wars section at my store has 4 pegs for ActionVerse figures, one for each of Mando, Grogu, Zeb, and a Stormtrooper. The 3 pegs for Black Series are all "general assortment".

There's positives and negatives to each approach:
Pushing for set character assortments, theoretically, should streamline the reorder process and prevent one poor seller from bogging down the entire segment. However, with retailers continuing to push back against any expansion to the toy department, if not outright cutting it (again, increasingly common at Walmart stores), it makes it difficult to ensure character exposure and inherently limits the number of characters a year. Even with a more modest cast, would that stop a Walmart from opting to JUST carry what they perceive to be the most popular characters?
Hasbro has released 4 ActionVerse figures for Spider-Man BND (not counting pack ins and exclusives), and 4 figures for "basic" Spider-Man. Those 8 are the extent of the ActionVerse selection will offer for the ENTIRE YEAR and you still have situations, like my Walmart, which won't carry the comic Spider-Man or Spider-Gwen to simply carry Miles, Venom, BND Spider-Man and BND Hulk across TWELVE PEGS.

The wave system allows for greater variety of characters, but are seemingly more dependent on product sales. A couple figures don't sell? That assortment might as well be "dead" until they clear it out to replenish. The Snake Eyes movie, particularly Baroness and Akiko, pretty much killed GI Joe Classified as a recurrent product line at many locations for YEARS.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
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Well, I am concerned about the future of the brand with combiners. Like how will a kid know to start collecting each one? Without the giant media storm that G1 had, kids don't know or care about Bruticus or Menasor. So having them as an option as a giftset really will help towards that as well as giving us old farts a method of just getting the set on day one.
Sidestepping the "are kids even the primary market anymore?" question, Combiner Wars was incredibly successful from a retail perspective.

Granted it was eleven years ago, but even still. That line started with four Arielbots and a Stunticon. You had to get a few waves deep to complete a team.
 

Platypus Prime

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It did have one advantage modern stuff doesn't, though, the mix-and-matching made improvising with what you had on the shelves easy. Nowadays the frame system may or may not accommodate an alternate limb, and even when it does, there's almost nothing on the box telling you it's even a feature sometimes. Package advertising counts!
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
It did have one advantage modern stuff doesn't, though, the mix-and-matching made improvising with what you had on the shelves easy. Nowadays the frame system may or may not accommodate an alternate limb, and even when it does, there's almost nothing on the box telling you it's even a feature sometimes. Package advertising counts!
You're not wrong, but that's a deeper issue with the frame system in general. It's taken the scramble city aspect out of those characters and teams.
For all the shortcomings you could point to in CW, it did lean into that play pattern rather effectively.

But given that they seem committed to the frame system... I don't think spreading teams out is hurting anyone any. Especially given that you don't need a full team to get a functional framebot.
 

unluckiness

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I just see it as the least complicated way to get to the endpoint of G1 combiner teams spontaneously gaining mass when they combine. They're not supposed to be there at all but due to the limitations imposed by physics and accuracy, have to be there. Pretty much nothing more than the fake kibble and partsforming on individual toys but on a larger scale.

I have issues with the accuracy bit though, especially with Bruticus but I think the intent is clear.
 

The Predaking

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Sidestepping the "are kids even the primary market anymore?" question, Combiner Wars was incredibly successful from a retail perspective.

Granted it was eleven years ago, but even still. That line started with four Arielbots and a Stunticon.



Weird to think that the kids who grew up on Combiner Wars are adults now! My cousin's son was a little kid when that came out, and I got him a Scattershot toy from the line for Christmas, and now he is in college.

You had to get a few waves deep to complete a team.

IIRC, the second and fourth waves were a little hard to find.
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
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Happy birthday!

47 here. I imagine I must be among the younger people who can remember a time before Transformers existed. I turned 5 a couple weeks before the first comic issue was released. I can just barely remember a time when they were a new thing.

I'll back up Platypus Prime from the pictures thread. My bones are not dust! Dust wouldn't hurt so much...
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Happy Birthday!

If it makes you feel any better, I just turned 45 a couple weeks ago....

Happy birthday!

47 here. I imagine I must be among the younger people who can remember a time before Transformers existed. I turned 5 a couple weeks before the first comic issue was released. I can just barely remember a time when they were a new thing.

I'll back up Platypus Prime from the pictures thread. My bones are not dust! Dust wouldn't hurt so much...

Thanks!
 
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