Thread of Thoughts, Questions (and Maybe Even Answers) That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread

[LordGigaIce]

I just didn't care for people going "oh wow it's neat to see more G1y live action designs but I can't let myself enjoy them because the wrong people will be happy."

There's a whole toxic element to this discussion that I'd like to think we're past but deep down I know we're not.

Don's try at a "movie-ized G1" style was indeed short-lived, but idk if he was doing more than the then-unsubtitled G1 ongoing at the time. This was also notably a time when the art style consistency was all over the place, with some tie-ins ignoring Don's redesigns in favor of matching with the then-current toyline or whatever. So it's not like those redesigns of his really became the IDW standard for any period. Although iirc that's where stealth bomber Megs, who's been done by Hasbro in that form (and that he's called out), is from.

I mean... yeah. It was all over the place. Which is my point. What people mean when they say "the IDW art style" or "IDW aesthetic" is a specific sort of aesthetic that only got nailed down relatively late in IDW1's thirteen year run.

And my whole point was that if IDW took that long to find the style that defined it well... maybe we shouldn't be writing SkyBound off only two years into their run.

 

[lastmaximal]

If we got a whole G1 line informed by Guido's work as much as T30 was informed by Milne's at the time, I'd be very happy.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

This is one that I'm not sure if it needs its own thread or not. If there's some sort of vote for one or the conversation just carries on for more than a page, I guess, I'll spin it off.

But I was thinking earlier, and got to wondering...

Was bringing back Optimus Prime a waste?

We all know the story by now: Hasbro sees Optimus Prime as product and not a character, and decides to off him in the major motion picture, so all the children in the audience can see the lasers rip through his torso REALLY, REALLY BIG-like. Traumatized Timmys' mothers all ream out Hasbro, possibly further incensed by finding out they watched too much of the movie to get a refund by that point, and Hasbro fast-tracks Prime to return to TVs the world over as quickly as possible. Happy end, right?

But is it really?

Because in the end, did it really help anything?

So, Optimus was back on TV. Fantastic. He wouldn't get any more screen time until "The Rebirth" nine months later, and that was only three episodes before they basically scrapped the TV show.

And there was no toy during that time. Had to wait for the '88 assortment, as I recall, and hey, they made a big Prime Puppet Pal to help push it on TV, but with no all-new stories to be told there...

And by that point, Transformers toy sales were already on the decline for that era, yeah?

So, if they'd just kept the course with Rodimus, I wonder if things would have really turned out any worse for the line. He could slot into Optimus's place in "The Rebirth" pretty seamlessly, they'd have saved money on fast-tracking two Toei-produced episodes, and maybe they'd be down one Targetmaster in the assortment? (Or give us Targetmaster Rodimus Prime?)

And in Japan, they killed him off almost as fast as they brought him back, so they clearly saw no value in it. Might've been easier for them to just skip Return of Optimus Prime there as well, though we wouldn't get the cool Double Convoy moment. But that's really about the only loss there. That, maybe Hot Rod's Matrix Quest in the early part. But something tells me they could have found other ways to fill the time without feeling too burdened.

The biggest impact, I think, might have come in the Marvel comics. After OP died there, they made Grimlock leader, which was certainly... a choice. This wasn't even the Furman era yet, mind you, and they clearly had no interest in contriving a way to use Rodimus (lucky for the Brits). Then we followed Fortress Maximus as leader of a separate troop of Autobots when they showed up, and conveniently enough, they met and squared off right about the time Hasbro was like "Yep, bring him back."

So, we got Optimus back, large and in charge for almost the rest of the run (died in 76, returned in 80). I guess if not him, maybe Fortress Maximus would have been in charge, since Scorponok stuck around until 75. Maybe. Who knows?

But outside of that... I don't know. Did OP extend the shelf life of the brand by coming back? Or was it fated to go the way it went regardless of who was carrying the Matrix at that point?

 

[lastmaximal]

I think ultimately it was a very powerful demonstration of the significance of IP. The loss and backlash would have demonstrated that too, but their caving really solidified it -- showing that a company would go out of its way to undo something. Especially given the context was before just rebooting a property was commonplace.

And I think there was some success in it, despite it inevitably not being enough to rejuvenate the franchise to the degree they needed.

For me there's just some added small sense of relief that the end of the US series and such happened on Optimus' watch and not Rodimus', although of course fans (especially the more casual) think or assume the latter anyway.

...then again, in Japan Rodimus DID go on to blow up their home planet, so who knows what might have happened if Optimus didn't come back.

 

[Sabrblade]

then again, in Japan Rodimus DID go on to blow up their home planet,

Scorponok did that.

 

[lastmaximal]

Well, that's the last time I study Cybertronian history from articles in that fanzine by @.NotMyMatrixBearer420.

 

[Sabrblade]

Well, that's the last time I study Cybertronian history from articles in that fanzine by @.NotMyMatrixBearer420.

I think I remember some of those articles. They were the ones that made all those wacky claims about Japanese TF stuff, right?

"Dark Nova revived the REAL Megatron into Super Megatron in order to assassinate that total imposter Galvatron."

"Metrotitan is totally Metroplex as a zombie."

"There is totally a Space Mafia and the Crossformers work for it."

"Unicron totally possessed the dead body of BWII Galvatron when he was resurrected in Beast Wars Neo."

"Those Blentron guys from BW Neo were literally made of Unicron's energy, so he absorbed them into himself in order to complete his resurrection. Sucks to be them!"

 

[LordGigaIce]

But outside of that... I don't know. Did OP extend the shelf life of the brand by coming back? Or was it fated to go the way it went regardless of who was carrying the Matrix at that point?

I think the whole thing is a case of Hasbro constantly playing catchup.

They decide to kill off Optimus. Bad move, kids are sad/mad, parents write in to complain. Hasbro has to shift gears, but season 3, starring Rodimus Prime, is already well under way. So they have to work in Optimus coming back. Problem is that the damage from the movie is already done and cartoon production lead times mean that they can't even try to salvage this thing with a quick Optimus return. They just have to sort of run with Rodimus and Friends and hope they can get kids caring about by the end when Optimus comes back.

Only the kids really don't like Rodimus, the new season fails to catch on, viewership and sales drop, and by the time Hasbro's fix can be implemented, it's already too late.

It didn't save the franchise, but I don't think anything could by that point. I'm not keen to revisit the Rodimus discussion, but just based on an objective reading of things... he wasn't popular and kids didn't accept him in large enough numbers to make the new direction work. At that point the dye was cast, and bringing Optimus back at the end of a season most of the audience had already tuned out for was too little too late.

In the end, dying was the best thing to happen to Optimus. Had he not died, had he stayed on, the franchise probably has a very similar trajectory. Maybe the decline is a bit delayed, maybe there's a full season four, but the shelf life of the original run was coming to an end anyway. Optimus sticking around would have faded into obscurity.
But by dying like he did, it solidified him as a Big F'ing Deal, and the franchise's failures could (partially unfairly) get shoved onto Rodimus.

A very inaccurate reading from a casual fan would be "Optimus was around and it was awesome, then he died and that loser Rodimus took over and the show sucked. Then some stuff with animals happened idk but then Optimus came back and the UT was very popular, and then he was in the billion dollar movies."

The way that it worked out helped Optimus' "status" a great deal. Had he not died, he'd be associated with the lesser back end of the original run.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Basically they made kids nostalgic before it was even over.

Well played, Hasbro.

 

[Sabrblade]

They unwittingly introduced Geewhining to the brand.

 

[LordGigaIce]

They unwittingly introduced Geewhining to the brand.

Eh I'm a Pokemon fan so I can say with some certainty that would have happened anyway.