Thread of Thoughts, Questions (and Maybe Even Answers) That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
The whole IDW look is just... not my bag these days.

There's nothing wrong with being a product of the time to be sure. I'm sure I'll have a period where I look back at it fondly but it's something I've mostly moved past these days.
 

CrockAlley

Well-known member
Citizen
I've read TF comics since G1. IDW has had some of my favorite art. EJ Su, Milne, Roche, Stone, and more were unshackled from the restraints of Sunbow designs. Focusing on those old designs for current comics and Generations feel like the brand has shoved itself back in the box.

I'm glad that people who are into the old cartoon aesthetic are getting fed right now, but it feels like going backwards to me. Feels like regression instead of progression. This is, of course, an inherent issue with these legacy IPs and nostalgia and all that. I guess I've been in this nerd-pop-culture game so long that I'm bored with the retreads. I crave exploration and experimentation. Why am I more excited about TakaraTomy's dumb little elephant toy than anything else right now?

My closing statement: Legacy Blitzwing and the airplane cockpit sticking out of his tank mode.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I'm glad that people who are into the old cartoon aesthetic are getting fed right now, but it feels like going backwards to me. Feels like regression instead of progression. This is, of course, an inherent issue with these legacy IPs and nostalgia and all that. I guess I've been in this nerd-pop-culture game so long that I'm bored with the retreads.
I guess there are two ways to address the meat of this.
The first is that I don't think looking to the past is regression. This isn't politics, this isn't social justice theory... constant progress isn't necessary. We're talking about something incredibly subjective. I think looking forward is definitely valid but I also think nostalgia is just as valid a source of inspiration. Going "we can't look forward" or "we can't look back" seems like an unnecessary handicap. Like you're leaving potential on the table.
At the end of the day we're talking plastic robots. Nostalgia is part of the fun.

The second way I wanna tackle this is... as someone whose tastes trend towards G1/2 and the UT... I felt like I was out in the cold through the Bayverse, Animated, and the Aligned eras. Sure, Classics/Universe/Generations existed but between its unwillingness to just do the simple thing and its bi-yearly nature, it felt like most of the franchise just wasn't aimed at what I wanted.
Now it is. And I'm very appreciative for that. I understand people on the other side of the fence won't like it... but I mean. I had to do my time on the outside looking in. I really don't want this to come off wrong but... maybe it's just how it goes? Your time to sit it out? I donno. The pendulum will swing back eventually and it'll be more along what you're into. Just how it goes.

I crave exploration and experimentation.
I've said this before, but experimentation doesn't happen for its own sake.
G2 bombed, that's the only reason the Beast Era happened. Then Beast Machines bombed, and that was the only reason we got the UT. Aligned's struggles opened the door for today's hyper-referential take.

Had none of these underperformances happened Hasbro would have happily continued doing what it was doing. They absolutely employ very talented engineers and artists, but radical sea changes only happen for financial reasons.

Where am I going with this? Well AotP preorders sold out a couple times over so... I donno. For now things seem to be working.

That's less a "I told you so" and more me stating that you'll probably see a big push behind something new when the current direction starts to see diminishing returns.

Which will happen. I don't know when... but this stuff is like the tides, it all shifts eventually.

Focusing on those old designs for current comics...
My love of SkyBound is less about the art (I think it's a bit rough myself) and more about... well... the character work. IDW had the licence for the better part of twenty years and never got Optimus right. SkyBound nailed that two issues in.

All in all SkyBound's writing has been like cold water after so much time stuck with IDW's moral greyness that I can't help but find it refreshing. The character designs really aren't a factor one way or another.

That being said, I do have a genuine question for you. I don't mean to come off as a prick (I hope I'm not despite our differing viewpoints)...

You said you enjoyed IDW's designs. Well IDW's stuff is coming up on being five years in the past. At a certain point wouldn't wanting a return to IDW's aesthetic be just as much relying on the past as returning to the well on G1?
 

Princess Viola

Dumbass Asexual
Citizen
I just like my changey robot toys to have that Japanese robot vibe to them.

Which you can argue 'Oh but the G1 cartoon was American' which is true but the designs (at least for the first couple years) were still based on what had originally been Japanese robot toys.

I will freely admit my personal Transformer aesthetic preference developed from the fact that my childhood Transformers were RID01 and the Unicron Trilogy.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I just like my changey robot toys to have that Japanese robot vibe to them.

Which you can argue 'Oh but the G1 cartoon was American' which is true but the designs (at least for the first couple years) were still based on what had originally been Japanese robot toys.

I will freely admit my personal Transformer aesthetic preference developed from the fact that my childhood Transformers were RID01 and the Unicron Trilogy.
Same. It's why I love Masterforce and Victory so much. They took that '84-'85 style that was already rooted in super robot aesthetics and dialled it up.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Not to mention the fact that the earliest character models of the cartoon were designed by Japanese artist Shōhei Kohara, further tying them back to their Japanese roots.
 
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Princess Viola

Dumbass Asexual
Citizen
We do know that Hasbro was sent samples of Brave toys from Takara at least once:
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And Takara sent Hasbro UK samples of product from their non-Transformers robot toylines to see if there was anything they wanted to use for Transformers:

So even if Hasbro never decided to bring over the whole Brave franchise to the West, there is still the possibility that maybe some Brave figures could have been reused in Transformers in an alternate timeline. (Going full circle if that had happened)
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Meanwhile, back in 2015-2016, there were a lot of obnoxious people trying to get Ask Vector Prime to canonize the existing Brave franchise as part of the Transformers brand multiverse (like what was done for GoBots, Robotix, and whatever other related '80s properties Jim Sorenson had previously felt like connecting to Transformers via the AllSpark Almanac books), but in this case, Vector Prime either simply didn't answer those people's questions or just acted like he misunderstood them (like, Vector once responded to a Brave question with an answer about the Pixar movie instead). :p
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I wonder if Hasbro ever considered bringing it over.
It's a shame they didn't. A lot of the latter Brave stuff works as a very nice "bridge" between the end of G2 and the UT. Like... an alternate timeline of how Transformers could have progressed through the 90s if the Beast Era didn't happen.

Meanwhile, back in 2015-2016, there were a lot of obnoxious people trying to get Ask Vector Prime to canonize the existing Brave franchise as part of the Transformers brand multiverse (like what was done for GoBots, Robotix, and whatever other related '80s properties Jim Sorenson had previously felt like connecting to Transformers via the AllSpark Almanac books), but in this case, Vector Prime either simply didn't answer those people's questions or just acted like he misunderstood them (like, Vector once responded to a Brave question with an answer about the Pixar movie instead). :p
Two things.
One, Jim probably would have run into issues if he had tried that, as Brave is now, paradoxically, a Ban Dai property. If it was still a Takara property then yeah, there's something to work with there, but I doubt Hasbro would want someone working with the official licence to start canonizing a competitor's products in their franchise.
Secondly, I don't need AVP's lameness to do that :p

SKQhJ0O.png


Thought: Hasbro has given us a good handful of IDW-based toys over the years. I haven't been reading Skybound, but It's my understanding that they're hewing closer to a traditional G1 look without re-imagining designs in the way IDW did. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

So, looking towards the future, what can we expect regarding Skybound-inspired toys?
Just to circle back to this...
I also think it's worth pointing out that SkyBound only got the licence two years ago. IDW had it for the better part of twenty years, and their main continuity's original designs (mostly) didn't even get toys. The "IDW aesthetic" we think of didn't come about for many years into the run, and it took a lot of experimentation to get there (remember the attempt to Bayformers up G1 with metal skeleton faces?).

"SkyBound isn't giving us the breadth of new designs that IDW gave us" is comparing a newly built house that's just starting to be furnished with a house that's had fifteen years worth of work put into it.
 
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Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Wasn't it mainly just Don Figueroa who used that movie-esque art style?
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Wasn't it mainly just Don Figueroa who used that movie-esque art style?
It was, but he was the main artist on the main IDW book for a spell. For better or worse, that was the look of the main comics continuity for a bit and likely would have stuck around if had been popular. That it wasn't meant that it was an abandoned experiment.

My larger point though, is that IDW took a while to find what we'd consider the "IDW aesthetic." It seems unfair to bash SkyBound for not being on that level a mere two years into their tenure. IDW two years in isn't the IDW most people mean when they say they like the "IDW art style."
 

CrockAlley

Well-known member
Citizen
You said you enjoyed IDW's designs. Well IDW's stuff is coming up on being five years in the past. At a certain point wouldn't wanting a return to IDW's aesthetic be just as much relying on the past as returning to the well on G1?

I enjoy IDW designs (some of them anyway; there were so many artists, and a few I wasn't really a fan of.) I like aspects of the old G1 cartoon. I'm not against revisiting the past, but in a general way, I'm interested in seeing new things. I want to stress, this is just my own personal preference and I'm not actively calling for any change in direction. I'm more than content to let the bulk of this era of Generations pass me by.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Don's try at a "movie-ized G1" style was indeed short-lived, but idk if he was doing more than the then-unsubtitled G1 ongoing at the time. This was also notably a time when the art style consistency was all over the place, with some tie-ins ignoring Don's redesigns in favor of matching with the then-current toyline or whatever. So it's not like those redesigns of his really became the IDW standard for any period. Although iirc that's where stealth bomber Megs, who's been done by Hasbro in that form (and that he's called out), is from.

(A lot of the designs were pretty cool; I remember really liking the altmode he chose for Magnus, and even the Rodimus of that time was pretty neat).

Aside: we've been incredibly blessed as a fandom to have so many great artists take on our favorite characters. From older pros we grew up with already in the business, to newer pros that grew up as fans alongside us. Love the visual history artbook we got, but i also always wanted a sequel to "the art of IDW's Transformers" that would show off the vibrant, dynamic art styles of the MTMTE/RID-on era.

Personally, I liked Bumblebee despite those designs, not because of them.

Same. I rolled my eyes at the whole thing initially, but eventually got talked into understanding that this just let more people in, so hey, why not. (And this was a very sweet movie all in all, so the more eyes on it the better.)

But there were things I didn't like about that particular execution of it. The weird thigh panel shape situation as seen on Op, Soundwave, and Shockwave. The "crumpled foil then smoothed down as best I could" look of some of the faces (Ratchet, Cliffjumper) and Arcee's odd porcelain doll face by contrast.

At least the faces ultimately look better on toys with heads too small for it to really stand out. I think the layered panels look they used in previous films and in ROTB worked better for expressive faces.
 
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