The Aligned Binder of Revelation has been REVEALED

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I do not care for Sentinel to always be the jerk. Give his role to someone else.
I see you too are a man of culture.

I don't mind Jerk Sentinel if he's done well. DotM and TFO gave us two distinct flavours of good "jerk Sentinel." The first by making him a tragic figure, the second by making him so irredeemable with a great performance he loops around to being fun to watch.

But broadly? I like my Sentinels (and I do like them) as a gruff guy who clashes with Optimus but wants to do the right thing. He's just not equipped to be that guy.
IDW2 Sentinel nails that. Optimus' eulogy of him hits what I think is the ideal of the character.

"We should mourn Sentinel Prime. He was flawed, as we all are. Perhaps he failed. But he faced a choice, when the Matrix came to him. And in that moment, he chose to try."

Man, IDW2 got ignored hard but it offers more worth keeping than IDW1 imo.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Animated Sentinel was entertaining, but he only happened because Hasbro didn't want his character given to Rodimus. Which, now that I think about it, feels kind of like we dodged another "anti-Rodimus" bullet, as in Animated was originally going to add to the Rodimus hate train before Hasbro stepped in and made Optimus's jerk rival be Sentinel instead. Which, if that's the case, then phew!
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Here's a thought. How might YOU (anyone) go about putting together a Binder of Revelation that aligns the various brand directions over the years and folds non-G1 character and narrative elements into a G1 core? (Let's say that direction is what the brand/company wants, rather than something all-new or something built around Botbots) Who would be on, say, your five-person (you not included) for doing that?

Beast Era- keep sparks, the afterlife, protoforms.

RiD- Optimus and Ultra Magnus being bros, I'd toss in Delta Magnus too.

UT- Minicons, Unicron as this Lovecraftian creature feeding on hatred and fear.

Movies- Sentinel as a guy who will do whatever it takes to save Cybertron, creates conflict with Optimus. Bumblebee and Spike/Sam's friendship.

Animated- Lockdown, Lugnut, Old Man Ratchet. "Decepticons, transform and rise up!"

Aligned/IDW/all the rest-
Megatron as a power hungry bully, but he's smart enough to know "just let me be in charge" isn't a selling point in and of itself. Rallies everyone to his side with enough vague ideology to justify violence. Keep the "political allegory" people like to go with, for Megs these days but flip it from "underclass revolutionary" to "fascist opportunist" to sidestep the morally grey sludge that could drag down IDW's narrative.
That's even if you wanted to get that deep. Just making Megatron a tyrant who goes on about might making right and survival of the fittest as he's being a baddie can work in that dynamic if you want to dial back the heavy political stuff.

One more idea... a deep Sunbow pull. How about we go back to the Autobots and Decepticons being separate societies/social groups instead of political factions? It's a dynamic that's fallen by the wayside as political allegory got popular but hear me out.

Thirteen Primes, doing demigod societal founder stuff. The Fallen goes rogue. The followers of the remaining Twelve form the Autobots, inherit the Matrix from Prima.
The followers of the Fallen become the Decepticons led by various warlords.

The two sides live side by side in tense peace but conflict flares up now and then. But then Megatron shows up, assassinates his rival leaders amongst the various Decepticon factions, unifies them, and starts the Great War.

Animated Sentinel was entertaining, but he only happened because Hasbro didn't want his character given to Rodimus. Which, now that I think about it, feels kind of like we dodged another "anti-Rodimus" bullet, as in Animated was originally going to add to the Rodimus hate train before Hasbro stepped in and made Optimus's jerk rival be Sentinel instead. Which, if that's the case, then phew!
Animated Sentinel is fun, but part of what makes him fun is that he's not overtly villainous. He's an Autobot through and through. He's just a massive jerk.

Though I'll maintain that had that been Rodimus (assuming it's a character name and model change and nothing else) I think it would have been well received. That character, as I said, is fun! And I don't think Jerk Rodimus would have been rejected if he'd been fun.

My evidence is how popular Roberts' MtMtE/Lost Light run is. Rodimus is a buffon in that.
He gets played into changing his name to "Rodimus" by Swindle who's clearly using him.
He has an over-inflated sense of his own importance, thinking he's on some crusade to return his people to glory, when his own crew jokes about how little progress they've made towards their stated goal of finding the Knights.
Selfishly gets Chromedome to engage in addictive and self-destructive behaviour to further his own goals. Gets punched out by Chromedome's husband for this (who is half his size).
Flies around in a personal ship that looks like his own head yelling "'TIL ALL ARE ONE!"

IDW1 Rodimus is a total dweeb! He's popular though because Roberts made him a fun dweeb.

The issue with the Deviations comic wasn't that they did a comic where Hot Rod was lame. IDW was already doing that to critical acclaim. Deviations sucked because it was just so mean spirited. Hot Rod is told he sucks at every opportunity and Eastman has all the storytelling chops of a hyperactive seven year old recounting an episode of Power Rangers after snorting pixie sticks.

But Roberts proved "Hot Rod is a jerk/kinda sucks" can be fun and accepted if he's written well. Animated Sentinel certainly was written well... so had that been Rodimus? I think it would have gone over just fine.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I might enjoy at least one series where Hot Rod/Rodimus is a jerk and/or jock, just to have him have some prominence and a bit of the upper hand. But I would hope that doesn't become his new default character niche, because I really prefer the idea of him basically being Nightwing -- elder aged-out kid appeal character -- to Bumblebee's Robin/Tim Drake. (I caught the bits of Cyberverse that had him and Bee and Cheetor hanging out, but not much was really done with that element because there were a lot of things going on.) An aspirational figure for Bumblebee (without, then later with, Hot Rod really knowing or realizing), but himself having gotten a taste of real-world expectations, and masking an uncertainty about whether he's bot enough for it. I far prefer that. (One fringe reason I rather like RID2015 is that Bumblebee's arc and vibe there is kind of a good template for a Hot Rod. Hell, even Will Friedle is perfect for him.)

But oh, how his design LENDS itself to being a jerk! Everything about him plays well with it.

I'm just still trying to redeem him in my head or at least avoid dropping him back into a no-win role in the franchise, although I guess for some fans nothing will ever undo the 1986 movie, so we might as well have some fun with it. (But still...)

I think a big part of why IDW Rodimus worked, once Roberts had gotten to him (he was, like most characters post-Furman, just aimless and following plot lines), was that he carried a balance of absurdity, charisma, and sincerity. I would've liked to see that last more, to be honest, because you kind of need something there to justify why everyone else would be going along with such a buffoon. And TBH the Overlord thing and the vote... I think that should have had bigger repercussions sooner (when we DID get it, the whole Lost Light/mutiny arc was a bit messy narratively). And part of those should have shown him kind of re-earning the right to co-captain, rather than just sulking while Optimus lectured him and okay the focus is Megatron now. Like, give us some Michael Scott flashes of being a weirdly hypercompetent salesman instead of just a weirdly offensive dork.

But there were some moments. I'll always have his little "thank you for traveling with me". I'll just pretend he was written more consistently in line with that prior to that.
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
Yeah, IDW Rodimus was certainly fun. But in universe, he wasn't just a buffoon. He did also have genuine high points that would inspire people to follow him.

Right from the start, in his spotlight, we saw that he was incredibly daring, and would pull stunts that most others would think were insane. And he'd pull them off, too. He clearly earned his spot as a high-ranking officer.

Then there's his arc with the matrix. When it was lost, and the whole Autobot army was in the dumps (and he was at his low point after falling for Swindle's scams), he infiltrated the Decepticon stronghold solo to retrieve it. It should have been (and basically was) a suicide mission, yet he made it back with the matrix. Per Optimus's internal monologue, he could have just declared himself Prime then and Optimus wouldn't have been able to stand against him. Yet he didn't, gaining even more respect. Putting his own life on the line to stop Tyrest's kill switch certainly helped redeem him from the Overlord mess as well.

But I think his real high points were when he managed to straight up inspire bots to overcome whatever was going on. When Optimus had become disgusted with the legacy of the Primes, it was Rodimus that inspired him to reclaim his title. And Rodimus inspired his team of absolute misfits to all be able to open the matrix.

So yeah, IDW Rodimus was all over the place. Spectacular highs mixed with horrendous lows. Add in a tremendous amount of fun along the way, and it's easy to see why he gets a lot of love.

Animated Sentinel was fun, but he really didn't have much else goimg for him. He wasn't a villain, but he also definitely wasn't a hero. I'm with Sabr. I think if he had been Rodimus per the original plan, it would have just hurt the character's legacy even more in the long run. I'm just surprised that, in that "Rodimus Minor" era, there was anyone there who didn't want to just pile on him more.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Yeah, IDW Rodimus had an ego, but could also be humble, genuine, and sincere, making him a more well-rounded character. Animated Sentinel, however, was all ego, and the show did its best to make us love to hate him and want to see him get what was coming to him.

I'm just surprised that, in that "Rodimus Minor" era, there was anyone there who didn't want to just pile on him more.
That name change for the toy was more mandated by the marketing department than anything else.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I think what Exatron might be alluding to there is how the writing didn't mess with him any further (by going with a variation of the original idea, or a new bad one), just wrote him a decent little vignette that was a good showing. The name seems to just be a metonym for that time when he DID show up.

(I do also appreciate the detailed rundown of his exploits. I was mainly thinking under Roberts, as the Costa era was hard to stay interested in -- but he did indeed do that "bold moves" mission, which was a cool jaunt just muddied by that weird Olde English style comic. Under Roberts his main things were being cartoonishly egotistical and foolhardy enough to bring a killing machine on board, but I just hold on to those little moments where he has a bit more depth and heart. I do wish he'd gotten a less sad end, but I suppose that's what all those alternate adventuring Lost Lights are for.)

I don't think I knew about the Sentinel/Rodimus switch or intent back then, but I'm grateful that bullet was dodged. Especially at the time (before other prominent turns in IDW and Cyberverse), the character might have gotten permanently attached to that role, with the not-unreasonable logic that got the concept put forward in the first place pairing with fan angst and/or apathy over 1986 justifying it for some.

Instead what we got was essentially a Worf Effect stomping that showed how dangerous these other Decepticons were, taking down a pretty solid team under his command. I was not expecting the bow and arrows, which was awesome.

By now he's gotten some pretty good range that I think a one-off of him being a semi-antagonistic ally in the vein of a jerk jock (distinct from what Animated Sentinel was, less intense, less one-note) would be fun.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I'd love to see Rescue Bots adopted as a permanent thing. Have them like Thunderbirds where groups of Rescue Bots patrol areas of space for Transformers and other species in distress, maybe partially as a way of trying to atone for the chaos the Transformers war has had on the galaxy.
It always struck me as kind of petty how the Covenant of Primus book, for all of its attempts at summarizing (even if bizarrely and/or erroneously) so much of the Aligned lore, just completely ignored Rescue Bots in its entirety, as though it being part of Aligned was never really a thing, despite both it and Academy basically becoming the glue that held Aligned together during the post-TF: Prime years.
 

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Maybe they honestly didn't know. It's possible Hasbro never told them that Rescue Bots is supposed to fit into Aligned somewhere, because they didn't come up with that idea in the first place.
 

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
That name change for the toy was more mandated by the marketing department than anything else.
I've said it before, but marketing can do something that rhymes with "go truck gym shelves" over that one.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Hello, wall! I'm a fly!

Took some notes from watching this.

---

25 copies of the Binder were made.

Rik thinks it was Eric Siebenaler who came up with the name "Binder of Revelation".

Ugh, Rik is pronouncing Prima's name as "Pree-ma" instead of "Pry-ma".

Rik gives a confusing explanation for why life on other planets is so much smaller than on Cybertron. First he says Quintus is like a Johnny Appleseed type going around planting life on other planets, but then corrects himself to say that it's Micronus who did that instead, citing Micronus's smaller size for why life on other planets is human-sized, and saying that Quintus goes off and his descendants are the Quintessons. Yet, all media post-Covenant says it is Quintus who went and planted life on other planets
Rik says "if the powers that be had had there way", there would have been an animated movie based on the exodus from Cybertron seen in the WFC and FOC video games.

Rik claims they had pitched a show that comes after Prime that would have involved NAILs returning to Cybertron like in IDW. He claims the show would have focused on Thundertron and his 13 pirates each from a different colony world, with Cosmos from GoBotron. A panel of GoBotron's destruction was drawn with the planet exploding in the shape of the apple core, reflected in Cosmos's visor.

Rik claims there was a pitch for a Transformers show set at the very end of the timeline in a new universe with only two familiar characters returning: the ghost of Starscream, and "Iron Magnus", who is Ironhide with the Magnus Hammer as a cane. He says it was shot down quickly by Aaron Archer who said "We will never do a show called 'The Last Transformers'."

At the time, they were also working on two new play patterns that didn't take off. One involved rare earth magnets that let things hover over a placemat, and the other was glow-in-the-dark stuff involving break open energon cubes ("There's glass in that stuff."). Never really worked out because of safety issues.

Rik loves the Megatron redemption story that IDW did.

The 2015 stuff that was added to the Binder later was added by someone after Rik and Aaron left Hasbro.

The Cybertronian Zodiac was an idea put in there by "the other company" (which would be Starlight Runner according to what Aaron Archer told me back at BotCon).

Regarding the Zodiac thing:
Rik: So, that was actually, there was another company involved in this that had developed the brand bible for Halo, and they kind of took that idea and put it in there. And, when you're working with a company that has lots of moving parts--you have licensing, you have marketing, you have design, and then you have your licensors--you kind of have to pick and choose your battles. And that was a battle I didn't want to fight. I'm like, "You know what? That's interesting. Leave it in. I'm not going to fight that battle."

Windblade was never in the Binder when Rik was there. She had just been created at the time. So, her entry in 2015 version was one of the later additions. It is not known who wrote and added in the 2015 updates to the Binder, but whoever it was, they recreated the same format and font faces used by the original pages and even kept the Polarities idea for the characters despite their never being used in anything outside the Binder. Rik and Jim wonder if the Polarities picked for the 2015 character additions were chosen at random. A lot of the art from the 2015 pages is foreign to Rik.

Drift originally had very different pages from the AOE-inspired one found in the 2015 Binder, with art taken from IDW instead of AOE. The IDW-based Drift pages were removed and replaced by the AOE-based ones found in the 2015 PDF.

Regarding the Aligned Ironhide artwork:
Rik: That's Transformers: Prime Ironhide. And someone said, "But Ironhide dies in Dark of the Moon." Yeah? "Well, kids are going to be confused." This is not a show based off Dark of the Moon. "Kids don't know that. Kids know that he dies in the movie, so you have to take him out." I'm like, "What? What? It's It's not even a show based off the movie." So, Ironhide came out. He was in all the concept art and we didn't have anyone to replace him. And I said, "Bulkhead." And I had to make an argument for Bulkhead because they understood Bulkhead as just being an Animated character. And I said, "No, no, no, no. Characters exist in many different iterations. Optimus has existed in all these different shows. We can take a character like Bulkhead and pull him out of animated and put him into the new show."

There were lots of battle Rik tried to fight and lost against the Hasbro design team, such as trying to get Ironhide and Breakdown's toys out in the Prime toyline, and trying to make a better toy for Airachnid where the propellers become legs.

Prowl's character bio artwork in the Binder was done by Eric Siebenaler.

Nick Roche had been working on a comic book that never came to fruition about the Minibots called "Secret Powers", wherein they all had different powers, like how the Autobots in the early G1 Season 1 episodes had different powers like how Brawn had a drill and Jazz had a grappling hook and how Mirage could become invisible. This led to Rik wanting to give Sideswipe the wheeled skater feet of his ROTF counterpart in his Aligned artwork so that he could have the power of wheeled skating feet.

Rik confirms that Hero Mashers Heatwave was the result of someone not familiar with the brand using Google for reference material, since it was indeed originally supposed to be based on Rescue Bots Heatwave.

Rik also confirms that the Aligned character art made for the Binder was supposed to be continuity-ambiguous amalgamated designs rather than specific versions of each character, which is what most of the 2015 additions have, be they the AOE, CW, RID 2015, or TR versions.

Rik thinks Starscream's Binder art was also done by Eric.

Rik really loved the Animated concept of Blitzwing having three different faces. The vibe I get from his gushing over that is that he really wanted that to be Blitzwing's thing going forward. Hence the Thrilling 30 toy he worked on with Joe Kyde having the three faces gimmick.

Rik and Jim are utterly confused about the Constructicon Hook's profile in the Binder being named "Hightower" instead, forgetting that this was back at the time when Hasbro did not have the trademark for "Decepticon Hook" and used "Hightower" as a substitute, like with the Universe 2003, Classics, and ROTF toys. They're also confused about Bruticus being named "Bruticus Maximus" in the Binder. They remember that being the name of the Energon combiner, but the G1 version also used that name for a time during Universe 2008 and ROTF. The Exodus novel even called him that.

Trypticon is the only G-Tier Decepticon character because they really wanted him to become the Nemesis, as they were knee-deep in Fall of Cybertron at that point.

Making the Binder took about two years.

Jim says the rumors about how much it cost to make the Binder was about $300,000 and asks Rik if that's within the ballpark of the actual budget. Rik says that sounds like a hundred grand short of what it really was.

Rik was the one who arranged the order of the Thirteen. He also got to name Alchemist, Amalgamous, and Onyx.

Jim asks Rik what he thinks about Alchemist being officially connected to Maccadam, and Rik really likes that. He was talking with Aaron Archer a few months ago, and they think it's amazing that toys of the Thirteen, as they never thought it would be possible to make toys of them based on these designs.

The art of Prima seen in the Binder is the original design they came up with for him before they decided to add the Matrix to the hilt of his sword.

Rik can't remember who did the Binder art design for Megatronus, but I myself found out some months back that it was Don Figueroa.

The Megatronus art was already there when Rik first came aboard.

Micronus's original "thing" was just that he was tiny. The Chimera Stone as his artifact was all "that other company".

The circular thing behind Quintus in his artwork is supposed to be the Oracle from Beast Machines.

At one point, Onyx Prime was originally named "Onyx Primal". And at a later point, "Feral Prime" was added as a possible alternate name after the change from "Onyx Primal" to "Onyx Prime". Rik's words hint that it might have been Starlight Runner who changed it to "Onyx Prime".

Rik says that the design of Alchemist Prime's face on his AOTP toy is perfect in how it resembles Alchemist's Binder art that's missing from this copy of the PDF.

---

Have to split the post in half. To be concluded below:
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Regarding the Thirteenth Prime:
Rik: You guys remember that scene in Transformers: Prime where they have, like, they pan over the Thirteen Primes? How many Primes were there seen in that panel? Twelve. Because we said, "You know what? We can't create everything. We shouldn't create everything. We should leave room for people who come after us to have their own ideas. Maybe their ideas will be better than ours. Maybe they'll totally reinvent things. We shouldn't name every single one of the Thirteen." So, we left it ambiguous. Of course, certain people were saying, "It's got to be Optimus. He's got to be the Thirteenth." We never-- We did some concept art that made the Thirteenth kind of look like Optimus. So, our thinking was that there was the legend of the Thirteenth and some point in the future, the Thirteenth Prime would be revealed. And we never put a name to it. We never said, "This is the Thirteenth Prime."

Jim:
But, I had fun as a writer. I had fun with this concept, because when I was doing the book for Renegade, who does the Transformers role playing game, we had a chapter on the Thirteen, and they said, "We want to do everybody who's ever been a Thirteen." So, it wound up including some of the obscure stuff that Fun Pub did and whatnot. Some of the stuff that aren't really part of the proper Thirteen but in one media or another, like Logos Prime had been implicated to be one. And when I got to the Thirteenth Prime, I had fun saying, "You know, no one knows. It's a Prime yet to be revealed. It could be Optimus. It could be Rodimus. It could be Sentinel. It could be a PC." You know, I loved the idea that it could be one of your characters because because that to me that was the story beat that you guys were playing with. You know, it could be Bumblebee.

Rik:
Not Windblade.

Jim:
It could be someone, you know, yet to be forged.

Rik:
I like to think that it is a character that hasn't been created yet. That someone, 20 years from now, is going to create a character that resonates so deeply with the fandom, that maybe that person is the Thirteenth.

Rik says in Unicron's profile he wanted there to be a mention of Unicron also creating life. Not on the scale that Primus did, but just so there could be a backdoor for the idea of Tarantulas and the Tripredacus Council coming from Unicron, as his "unholy trinity of characters he could send out."

The "Auxilary Transformers Characters" section of this version of Binder did not exist when Rik was there. That was added later. Rik thinks it's crazy that the word "Headmasters" was used in this section since, at the time he was there, they couldn't use that word "because of the implications." It brought to mind the idea of schoolteachers.

There was a whole section about Beast Wars in the original version of the Binder that has been totally removed from this 2015 version. It was after the last section of the Epochs and talked about how the Beast Wars could have taken place at any point in time. "Just the Beast Wars that we happened to see took place right after the Ark crashed, right? The Beast Wars could happen at anytime and anywhere."

Rik is reminded of a character he tried to make. A grizzly bear named "Big Grizzly Convoy". And the while version would have been "Polar Convoy".

The human section of the Binder is from the original version according to Jim, to but Rik doesn't really remember it.

Rik loved Sari Sumdac so much that he fought tooth and nail to make Silas in TF: Prime named "Silas Sumdac", just because. No connection whatsoever, he just wanted Silas to have a last name and it to be "Sumdac". He lost that fight.

Regarding the Cybertron Projection Map:
Rik: So we had this big map up on the wall and then Ben Yee, Simon Ferman, and I... And, they they filmed us. We like took notepads and we were writing like, "Oh well, uh, Six Lasers Over Cybertron is over here! And the Gladiator Pits are here!" And we spent, like, a good two hours mapping out Cybertron.

Jim playfully berates Rik for listing the Crystal City Ruins in the Binder as originating from the "G1 Continuity (Comics)"

Regarding Thundertron's home planet:
Rik: So Thundertron, who is that that pirate tiger, he is from the show that was supposed to take place--the idea of the show that was going to take place after Transformers Prime was the return to Cybertron, it never had a name, but Thundertron was the main antagonist. And he came from the planet Diaclone, which was the furthest planet, the furthest back in time, thus "Diaclone".

Jim has to explain to the panel audience where Planet Wednesday came from, that being the Beast Wars Neo manga. But, neither he nor Rik provide any explanation for the bigger question surrounding its presence in the Binder, which is... "Just... Why?"

Rik refers to the weird-looking artifact of Liege Maximo as just "Liege Maximo's artifact", never actually explaining what it is.

Rik explains that Alchemist Prime's artifact of "Lenseers" were different lenses that allowed him to see the "energon spectrum".

He also mentions another document that touched on the different kinds of energon, but that TF: Prime only touched on "Engex, Black Energon, and Dark Energon." Which is not entirely accurate.

There was a whole piece of art that was different types of energon.

And it's over. They finished their coverage right as the panel time ended, so they couldn't take any questions but encouraged those who had questions to go check them out at their respective booths in the dealer room.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
There's something you can pull from just about every major continuity that's worthwhile, IMO. You'd have to get into some more obscure stuff to totally stump me. Even the less liked continuites at least have a couple things.

Even Kissplayers has the Autotroopers. Prime Wars has curmudgeon post-war Megatron. Beast Machines has the Vehicons and Botanica. Dreamwave has Sunstorm and the Fallen. Energon has.. uhh..

Okay, there's always one. (Nothing against Energon, but I'm struggling to think of anything I'd want to pull from it.)
 


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