Superman (Legacy)- Summer 2025

[LordGigaIce]

Apparently they have plans to cast a new Batman for this continuity but to be perfectly honest I think they should just work to integrate Pattinson's Batman into it.
Just avoid the confusion and take advantage of the groundwork already laid.

 

[Ultra Magnus13]

Spoiler

While I get that is your interpretation of her actions, you can see that she is deliberately going after Superman, even ignoring what she knows is true to go after him. Lois has no problem making her own assumptions about Superman's actions and motivations while not addressing the active dictator that was trying to invade and murder his neighbors, regardless of his motivations. She was actively punishing Superman by being the worst journalist that she could, not the best. Like I said, I found it intellectually dishonest and made it sound like a hit piece. I mean, there is a reason why Superman gets upset here, and it's because he knows what she is doing and can't believe she is doing it.

Spoiler

I don't doubt that they could have raised Clark, but honestly, we got old people talking on the phone wrong joke, followed up an hour later by the dad's generic speech. I can't tell you one part of what he said, but I can still tell you about Costner's speech, or some great dialog from John Schneider's Smallville run, or the fact that TAS Jonathan Kent never told Superman the truth about Santa Claus, or that even Glenn Ford's limited screentime felt more like Pa Kent.

Honestly it wasn't until the end when we got to see the home movies did we get something good out of them. They have limited screen time in this film and they really needed to be able to make the audience love them in that time. Personally, I don't think that they did that.

Also, Costner Kent didn't want the kids to drown, but he didn't know what to do in that situation. He literally would do anything to protect Clark, and showed that by dying in the storm rather than let Clark save him in front of all those people.

Snyders Pa Kent is maybe the worst part of Man of Steel. Costner is great in the role, but the idea of a Pa Kent that doesn't instil real morals in Clark is the antithesis of the character IMO. Pa wanting to protect Clark is fine, but he shouldn't want to protect him att he expense of saving other people. That scene really should have culminated with him stepping up to save his dad, dog, and everyone else and Pa realizing that as much as he wants to protect Clark, that like himself, he is always going to put others first, and use his powers to help.

 

[Rhinox]

Snyders Pa Kent is maybe the worst part of Man of Steel. Costner is great in the role, but the idea of a Pa Kent that doesn't instil real morals in Clark is the antithesis of the character IMO. Pa wanting to protect Clark is fine, but he shouldn't want to protect him att he expense of saving other people. That scene really should have culminated with him stepping up to save his dad, dog, and everyone else and Pa realizing that as much as he wants to protect Clark, that like himself, he is always going to put others first, and use his powers to help.

100 Goddamn percent.
I could deal with everything else, but that one scene destroys that movie and the entire Snyderverse for me. As a father, as a kansan, as a comics fan, it is just the worst take I have ever seen.

 

[Rhinox]

Oh, and Superman will be on streaming in like 2 weeks.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Oh, and Superman will be on streaming in like 2 weeks.

Sitting at $581.1 million. Apparently it needed to make $700 million to be considered a success financially so... not sure where that leaves this right now.

Fantastic Four is only sitting at $473.1 million and Thunderbolts* only made $382.4 million.

And all three of these movies are considered good, critically.

Setting aside the notion that a movie can make over $500 million and still be a letdown... it seems as if superhero fatigue is real, if even the hits aren't bringing in the crowds.

And it's not a "people don't like theatres" thing either. Jurassic Park Rebirth made $800.9 million. Minecraft made $955.1 million. People ARE going to theatres for stuff. Just not comic book stuff.

 

[Axaday]

I don't think that lens is really meaningful anymore. They make so much money in licensing and toys and Amazon rentals and streaming platforms require new big movies on a regular basis to fill their veins. If it were still the way people used to always measure, Hollywood would have folded by now because it is rare for a big action movie to make back its budget at the box office anymore.

 

[The Predaking]

I honestly don't think that the US box office is ever going to recover back to the Pre-covid days.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Dang it. Well, I guess we're getting only two superhero moves from Marvel and DC at a time.

 

[Rhinox]

Considering that first month or so of streaming has these tentpole movies at 30 bucks or more, I know they're making their investments back on the streaming.
This is the first week Thunderbolts went on any kind of sale and thats why I bought it. I probably won't wait for Superman as I'm excited to see it.

 

[The Predaking]

I honestly don't buy anything digitally anymore. I have enough services that I just wait for it to pop up on one of them.

 

[The Predaking]

Snyders Pa Kent is maybe the worst part of Man of Steel. Costner is great in the role, but the idea of a Pa Kent that doesn't instil real morals in Clark is the antithesis of the character IMO. Pa wanting to protect Clark is fine, but he shouldn't want to protect him att he expense of saving other people. That scene really should have culminated with him stepping up to save his dad, dog, and everyone else and Pa realizing that as much as he wants to protect Clark, that like himself, he is always going to put others first, and use his powers to help.

Kostner Kent would rather die than risk exposing his son's secret. He wants him to help others, but not at the risk of Clark's secret. He is also a farmer from Kansas trying to figure this all out, and doesn't have all the answers. His dying for Clark's secret is him showing the self sacrifice that Clark needs to have. Also, this is early high school Clark for most of Kostner Kent's scenes. I don't read the comic books, but in all the media I have seen, I have never seen any of the Kents actively encourage Clark to be Superman prior to his mid 20s when he goes to Metropolis.

 

[Axaday]

I didn't have a problem with Costner or how he stared into the middle distance.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

Sitting at $581.1 million. Apparently it needed to make $700 million to be considered a success financially so... not sure where that leaves this right now.

Fantastic Four is only sitting at $473.1 million and Thunderbolts* only made $382.4 million.

And all three of these movies are considered good, critically.

Setting aside the notion that a movie can make over $500 million and still be a letdown... it seems as if superhero fatigue is real, if even the hits aren't bringing in the crowds.

And it's not a "people don't like theatres" thing either. Jurassic Park Rebirth made $800.9 million. Minecraft made $955.1 million. People ARE going to theatres for stuff. Just not comic book stuff.

Just for context on those numbers:
In most cases, especially for Jurassic Park and Minecraft, a LOT of that money is coming from international grosses. Which opens up the possibility of perception and availability issues for some films. For most of the biggest films, you’re seeing a 40/60 split between domestic and international.
The Marvel films have been almost 50/50 (skewing domestic), Mission Impossible was a 33/66 split (skewing International), while Superman is skewing 57% domestic. Heck, Superman has even outgrossed, slightly, Jurassic World, domestically.

So is it superhero fatigue, or is it a perception issue? Is Superman not resonating with international audiences as well? Hard to tell anymore. It’s worth remembering that, regardless of your view of the quality, Star Wars, as a brand, also tends to skew more to domestic US audiences than other franchises.

 

[LordGigaIce]

So is it superhero fatigue, or is it a perception issue?

I don't doubt that a superhero whose tagline is "truth, justice, and the American way" may be struggling internationally at a time when perception of the US isn't exactly high the world over.

But....

Fantastic Four is still south of $500 million, and they aren't nearly as tied to Americana the way Superman is. And Fantastic Four has been positively received critically too. It's a good movie. People and reviewers are saying it's good... and the audience just isn't there the way it was for some other movies this year.

I mean of Jurassic World Rebirth, Minecraft, and Mission Impossoble: The Final Reckoning MI is easily the worst performing, and it's still sitting above Superman and FF.

Circling back to Fantastic Four though... it had a strong opening and dropped 80% between its first and second Fridays. The overall first to second weekend drop was a less alarming 66%, but when a 66% drop is the "good" news... yikes.

You can argue "it's a perception issue" but when it's a perception issue with superhero movies... super hero fatigue becomes a very real culprit.

Three of the four superhero movies this year, Thunderbolts*, Superman, and FF, were well received and had positive word of mouth, and all of them are shaping up to be box office dissapointments.

I mean I think Superman sitting north of $500 million, close to $600 million, is pretty good, but the industry insiders kept saying $700 million was the magic "it's a success" number and its box office just isn't going to reach that level.

And if the international audience isn't turning out for comic book fare the way they are for Jurassic World and Minecraft then... well... I'm not sure that changes much about this discussion on a global audience scale.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Siiiiigh. Just let us reach Doomsday. I dunno about the DC movie verse but let me reach another awesome Avengers team up moment.

 

[Axaday]

Fantastic Four is still south of $500 million, and they aren't nearly as tied to Americana the way Superman is. And Fantastic Four has been positively received critically too. It's a good movie. People and reviewers are saying it's good... and the audience just isn't there the way it was for some other movies this year.

I mean of Jurassic World Rebirth, Minecraft, and Mission Impossoble: The Final Reckoning MI is easily the worst performing, and it's still sitting above Superman and FF.

Circling back to Fantastic Four though... it had a strong opening and dropped 80% between its first and second Fridays. The overall first to second weekend drop was a less alarming 66%, but when a 66% drop is the "good" news... yikes.

You can argue "it's a perception issue" but when it's a perception issue with superhero movies... super hero fatigue becomes a very real culprit.

Three of the four superhero movies this year, Thunderbolts*, Superman, and FF, were well received and had positive word of mouth, and all of them are shaping up to be box office dissapointments.

I can just throw in my half cent here and I'll stew about it while you do.

I saw the first 3 Jurassic World movies in the theater. They got worse and worse. I heard the new one was better and I expected to go, but when it came time I didn't feel like it. I am not interested in Minecraft of Mission Impossible. Those movies all succeeded without me and for one franchise fatigue definitely was a factor.

So far there are 3 MCU movies I haven't seen at the theater. The first was Thor: Ragnarok and I regretted it, but it was because of THOR fatigue. His movies had been bad. The other two were the last two. If they'd been Spiderman or X-Men there is no way I would miss them. Like Jurassic World, I expected to go, but there was no day I felt like doing it when it was time. So I haven't seen Thunderbolts or Fantastic Four. I have a fresh opportunity for Fantastic Four this weekend and might take it. I will watch both about as soon as they are on Disney+, but I just didn't feel interested in Thunderbolts a month ago or Fantastic Four a couple weeks ago.

I made sure to go to Superman. I don't feel like I am tired of superhero at all. But Thunderbolts feel like MCU scraping the bowl. I know people like it. I might even wind up liking it, but it doesn't seem like something I'm going to love. I don't know what happened with Fantastic Four. I was excited about them becoming available again. I haven't heard anything about the movie I didn't like. Except it could just be that it doesn't feel connected to the ongoing MCU. I know it will wind up connecting in, but as it is it is just a fresh launch. I would go to Doomsday today if it were out. Spiderman 4 I would go today. Deadpool 4 I would go today. X-Men I would go today. Shang-Chi 2 I think I would go today. Thor 5 probably not.

I have been watching Ironheart just a little late. Maybe this IS a form of Superhero fatigue, because I always felt eager for it to come out, but when it did I didn't watch it for a while. Despite people saying they liked it. I don't love having to wait a week between episodes, but I did it for Daredevil and Andor very recently. So maybe I have a form of superhero fatigue that has limited my urgency and made me a little pickier.

Edit - But I think it is worth saying again: We don't know what percentage of the Disney+ money comes from having a few new movies a year, but Disney does know. We don't know how much money they make licensing Fantastic Four to LEGO or how many people rent it on Amazon. But Disney does.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

A possible impact to that “superhero fatigue”, at least here in the US, is just how fast a LOT of this stuff gets cycled down to home viewing, and then to streaming.

In the case of Fantastic Four, we’re probably a month away from streaming purchase/premium rental, maybe two or three for it to get put on Disney+. For Captain America: BNW, It was released on February 14, was premium streaming April 15 (two months), for sale on May 13 (three months), and on D+ on May 28…about three and a half months from original theatrical release. And that’s not counting the continued flow of superhero-superhero adjacent streaming shows.
People know this, and most superhero films just aren’t the “major events” they used to be. Hell, most FILMS aren’t the “Major events” that justified the mass theatrical turnouts we saw before COVID. Because you wait 3 or 4 months, it’ll probably be on one of the 2-4 streaming services we all have.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Streaming is an interesting wrinkle but let's be real... the turn around from theatre to DVD was getting pretty dang quick before streaming supplanted DVDs, and we didn't see these drops.

Additionally... Minecraft and Jurassic World: Rebirth each did nearly a billion at the box office. The highest performing superhero movie this year... Superman...is struggling to reach $600 million.

"It's streaming"
"Theatres aren't recovering from COVID"

Well... there ARE movies that are getting audiences into the theatre. People ARE willing to go to the theatre to watch films...

Just not superhero films.

I really don't know why committing to saying "superhero fatigue" is so scary for us. It's right there.

 

[Axaday]

Streaming is an interesting wrinkle but let's be real... the turn around from theatre to DVD was getting pretty dang quick before streaming supplanted DVDs, and we didn't see these drops.

But they aren't the same thing. A lot of people stream movies they wouldn't have bought on DVD 10 years ago.

Additionally... Minecraft and Jurassic World: Rebirth each did nearly a billion at the box office. The highest performing superhero movie this year... Superman...is struggling to reach $600 million.

"It's streaming"
"Theatres aren't recovering from COVID"

Well... there ARE movies that are getting audiences into the theatre. People ARE willing to go to the theatre to watch films...

It may be harder to see because we are core superhero movie people and are mainly still on board. There for a while, MCU movies were the big blockbuster tent poles that much less geeky people would go to and it is mainly THEM that have superhero fatigue.

Just not superhero films.

I really don't know why committing to saying "superhero fatigue" is so scary for us. It's right there.

Because superhero movies are about the only thing that GETS me to the theater.

Editors Note - I did NOT take advantage of the fresh opportunity for Fantastic Four. I'll be streaming it and redefining my identity as someone who never misses an MCU movie.

 

[LordGigaIce]

It may be harder to see because we are core superhero movie people and are mainly still on board. There for a while, MCU movies were the big blockbuster tent poles that much less geeky people would go to and it is mainly THEM that have superhero fatigue.

Right, but we need to look beyond our own biases. Pretending that the genre that made our section of nerdom socially acceptable isn't on the downward slope of things won't make it untrue.

A mid Jurassic Park soft reboot that didn't do anything particularly new did nearly a billion dollars after the last three got worse and worse.
Superman and the Fantastic Four, two genuinely good superhero movies, aren't living up to expectations. The issue isn't people not wanting to go to theatres. They just don't want to go to theatres to see superhero movies. At least not as much as other types of movies.

Setting my own biases aside... that seems pretty clear to me.

Because superhero movies are about the only thing that GETS me to the theater.

I feel that, I really do, but... I'm sure there were a lot of fans of Westerns that were disappointed when they stopped being the dominant genre too.

History's always cycling and nothing lasts forever.