RIP Peter Cullen

[Sabrblade]

I wonder if he felt that way about the whole , "Give me your face!" line.

I can imagine that he might not have thought much of it since he'd said in other interviews that the lines he objected to were ones that had the word "kill" in them, a word he had expressed a general dislike for in real life. IIRC, he once said, "It's not a word I like using."

 

[lastmaximal]

It's kind of gone without saying for some time, for me, that one of the central tragedies of the Bay era was bringing back THE Transformers voice, instantly bestowing a layer of credibility upon the entire undertaking... Only to give him scripts that were middling with an occasional notable line at best, and utterly generic overdone action bullshit at most times.

Such a gift to hear him introduce Optimus Prime again. "More than meets the eye". The call to all Autobots in space at the end of the first movie. "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing." "From here on, the fight will be your own." And a few more as the movies went on. But for each one of those, there was a moment of just incoherent screaming and roaring, and more than enough I'LL KILL YOU or YOU DIE NOW or GIVE ME YOUR FACE. Even some seemingly deliberate moments to foster some depth led to just mid material (the one before the big charge in TLK was just nakedly Please Like This Unneeded Speech). All because they were writing more for a punched-up theme park ride instead of any kind of substantial narrative.

Thankfully, Transformers Prime -- despite having overcorrected a bit, sticking him in Epic Mode forever for the most part -- at least let him have a good run.

 

[The Predaking]

It's kind of gone without saying for some time, for me, that one of the central tragedies of the Bay era was bringing back THE Transformers voice, instantly bestowing a layer of credibility upon the entire undertaking... Only to give him scripts that were middling with an occasional notable line at best, and utterly generic overdone action bullshit at most times.

Such a gift to hear him introduce Optimus Prime again. "More than meets the eye". The call to all Autobots in space at the end of the first movie. "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing." "From here on, the fight will be your own." And a few more as the movies went on. But for each one of those, there was a moment of just incoherent screaming and roaring, and more than enough I'LL KILL YOU or YOU DIE NOW or GIVE ME YOUR FACE. Even some seemingly deliberate moments to foster some depth led to just mid material (the one before the big charge in TLK was just nakedly Please Like Thid Unneeded Speech). All because they were writing more for a punched-up theme park ride instead of any kind of substantial narrative.

Thankfully, Transformers Prime -- despite having overcorrected a bit, sticking him in Epic Mode forever for the most part -- at least let him have a good run.

TF: Prime is still my favorite TF series of all time. Like it is arguably the best TF series of all time, and Peter Cullen was a big part of that.

 

[Sabrblade]

While TF: Prime didn't have him say anything overly aggressive and out of character, it leaned way too far into writing Optimus like a platitudinous pontificator whose default personality setting was stoicism.

If I'm being honest, the most characterful line Peter Cullen's Optimus got to speak between any of the movies or TF: Prime was a line in AOE where, after hearing Cade sigh about Tessa's teenage attitude, Optimus replied with an all-too-knowing annoyed half-chuckle of "Yeah, I went through that with Bumblebee!"

It was the most human-sounding relatable line Peter Cullen's Optimus had ever said since Season 2 of the G1 cartoon.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

The movies were so frustrating because they did have those moments. Someone involved was really trying to get it right but just didn't have the ability to see it through.

 

[LordGigaIce]

If I'm being honest, the most characterful line Peter Cullen's Optimus got to speak between any of the movies or TF: Prime was a line in AOE where, after hearing Cade sigh about Tessa's teenage attitude, Optimus replied with an all-too-knowing annoyed half-chuckle of "Yeah, I went through that with Bumblebee!"

While the movies had questionable lines, you can never say Cullen lacked energy or passion in them. Same for the WfC and FoC games. He have pretty solid performances in those.

But Prime? Cullen's so flat and bored sounding in those. And again, between the movies and games we know Cullen still had "it" at the time. It was all down to Prime's writers and voice directors not understanding Optimus. They assumed Optimus from the '86 movie WAS Optimus, instead of being the "things just got real" Optimus that only has weight when you put it in context of him being the warm and caring character from the first two seasons.

 

[Sabrblade]

They assumed Optimus from the '86 movie WAS Optimus, instead of being the "things just got real" Optimus that only has weight when you put it in context of him being the warm and caring character from the first two seasons.

I wouldn't even go that far after watching (and transcribing) an interview with the Prime creatives TF Nation did back during the pandemic, in which they revealed that they were not fans of the G1 cartoon and deliberately wanted writers for the show who were not already familiar with the Transformers series:

Duane Capizzi: Yeah, I think, Kurtzman and Orci were definitely like mega fans of the original series and it was their nostalgia. I think I can speak for both Jeff and myself where, y'know, we weren't. I think we were at the wrong age or something, I was actually in college when Transformers first came out. And so, for me, it was... And then, look, I understand nostalgia. My entire being is driven by it. And I looked at it and I was like, wow. You know, I get it, but so much of it just didn't seem to make sense in the original series, y'know, what I dipped my toe into.

Jeff Kline: We should mention Mairghread Scott, who's not on this call. Mairghread Scott was our writer's assistant. And was, in some ways, the keeper of the Transformers lore. Like, she was deep deep in, so, with various levels of knowledge of the Transformers world. And, by choice, Duane and I didn't want just acolytes because we wanted people who weren't familiar with it, who'd ask the questions that a new viewer to this world might ask. Like, we wanted to bring new people into the tent. So you can't do that if it's all being written by geek fans. You've got to have people who are like, "Wait, why did why would Optimus do that? That doesn't make sense," and then come up with the reason to kind of explain it. So, Mairghread was the keeper of lore and she'd be the one that we'd turn to and go, "Can we do that? Does that make sense? Does that contradict?" And she's kind of a genius about that stuff, and a great writer, and has had a very successful writing career, herself, now. But I'm pretty sure Prime was her first writing.

In hindsight, it might have been Mairghread Scott who pushed for the "larger than life" TFTM-esque depiction of Optimus and all the excessive TFTM quotes.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

"Taking the children was a bad move." always stuck with me. It's Bay Prime, so he is **angry**. He is scary angry. On theater speakers he sounds like a god of Antiquity about to bring the heavens down on some dude's head for mildly disrespecting him. Peter Cullen clearly understood what Bay wanted the character to be. But it's still a line I could imagine any Optimus Prime saying, delivered without yelling. It's a very "I'm disappointed in you" kind of anger.

Bay Prime almost works. Sometimes he does work. It's a shame they didn't listen when Peter Cullen knew a line wasn't right, or he was too much of a gentlemen to give them the "The right reading is the one I'm giving it" treatment. He could have saved the character if they let him.

 

[Sabrblade]

Bay Prime almost works. Sometimes he does work. It's a shame they didn't listen when Peter Cullen knew a line wasn't right, or he was too much of a gentlemen to give them the "The right reading is the one I'm giving it" treatment. He could have saved the character if they let him.

If only the director wasn't such an arrogant, self-absorbed, walking sack of hubris:

 

[LordGigaIce]

If only the director wasn't such an arrogant, self-absorbed, walking sack of hubris:

I think you might be taking a commercial where he's intentionally playing an exaggerated version of his public perception a bit too seriously

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Most of what I've heard of Bay makes him sound pretty casual and self aware. The main complaint I've heard is his Ed Wood "Cut! That was perfect." energy is a culture shock to workers used to taking all day setting up the lights just right and then doing dozens of takes. It's different. Otherwise, he's fun and doesn't take himself too seriously.

 

[LordGigaIce]

"Taking the children was a bad move." always stuck with me. It's Bay Prime, so he is **angry**. He is scary angry. On theater speakers he sounds like a god of Antiquity about to bring the heavens down on some dude's head for mildly disrespecting him. Peter Cullen clearly understood what Bay wanted the character to be. But it's still a line I could imagine any Optimus Prime saying, delivered without yelling. It's a very "I'm disappointed in you" kind of anger.

Bay Prime almost works. Sometimes he does work. It's a shame they didn't listen when Peter Cullen knew a line wasn't right, or he was too much of a gentlemen to give them the "The right reading is the one I'm giving it" treatment. He could have saved the character if they let him.

It's interesting. I genuinely have no issues whatsoever with '07. For all the kvetching over Bay, Optimus feels like Optimus in that. He's all about protecting humanity and seeing the best possible side of us, even when our government kidnaps Bumblebee. He flat out tells his troops to shut the hell up and they suggest that we're not worth fighting for, and his final gambit involves self sacrifice to keep the Allspark out of Megatron's hands. Which is a VERY Optimus move.

He's got his "freedom is the right of all sentient beings" line, he talks about humanity having the right to decide its own fate and not just serve as fodder for Megatron's machinations. He gets multiple Big Damn Hero scenes.

It seems like starting in RotF, they decided to dial up Optimus' brutal action hero-ness. But even then, even in the movie where he's all "GIVE ME YOUR FACE" he has the "you'll never stop at one, I'll take you all on!" line which is just... perfect. No. He won't sacrifice a single human, even to restore his home, because he knows Megatron doesn't deal in moderation.

DotM is where the "kill them all" line happens, as does him capping a surrendering Sentinel in the head (guess it's a good thing Cybertron never signed the Geneva Convention) but so much of that movie is built up as the final instalment. Like... the final showdown between Prime and Megs has Megs asking "who would you be without me?" and Optimus going "let's find out." I don't think I'm reaching to say that Bay intended this to be the bow on the whole thing.
And in that context? I can defend some of Optimus' brutality. He's tired. He wants this war to end. And after being betrayed by his mentor, having humans turn on him, he's just f***ing done, you know?
Now yeah, "kill them all" is a line Optimus should NEVER say, and Cullen was right to voice his objections... but I do think that story gets way overblown by people who are pissy that Bay Prime had an edge and wasn't just an '86 movie quote machine or Stoic Trailer Line Reader.

The real issue is that DotM wasn't the end when it probably should have been. Once you tell the story of a tired and fed up Optimus who is ending this war TODAY but then box office returns dictate it doesn't, indeed, end today... where do you go?
They seemed to settle on leaning into Optimus' jadedness growing, with AoE and TLK, but EVEN THEN what is it that breaks Optimus free from Quintessa's brainwashing? Bumblebee. His friend.

All of this is to say that while Bay's vision for Optimus was far from perfect, I do think he treated the character with more respect than he's often credited with. Again, I think the story of Peter objecting to the "kill them all" line gets way overblown by people who are mad at Michael Bay for reasons. On the whole? He seemed to understand Optimus in broad strokes, even if he wasn't quite on point when it came to the finer details.

And you know what? That's a hell of a lot better than Steven Caple Jr. managed. That's right! This is a stealth "RotB sucks!" post!

Even accounting for the very nebulous sense of continuity between the Bay films and those that came after, Caple's Optimus being a jaded, selfish asshole makes no sense. It kinda tracks with Optimus from AoE specifically but one, this movie may not even be connected to AoE and two, even if it is, it takes place way too early in the timeline for Optimus to be this much of a jaded prick.
And while "kill them all" is decidedly wrong for Optimus is "then DIE!" any better? Really? If we're being honest with ourselves?

So not only do I think Bay deserves more credit for how he handled Optimus, I think he's not even the worst director to handle the character. Caple's Optimus from RotB has just as questionable lines as any one Bay movie, and Optimus is super out of character as a cynical dickweed.

Honestly? RotB being the most mid and forgettable entry in the franchise probably did it a favour. If it were more memorable more people would realize how dirty it did Optimus as a character.

Most of what I've heard of Bay makes him sound pretty casual and self aware. The main complaint I've heard is his Ed Wood "Cut! That was perfect." energy is a culture shock to workers used to taking all day setting up the lights just right and then doing dozens of takes. It's different. Otherwise, he's fun and doesn't take himself too seriously.

He's got a crew of filmmakers who love working for the guy. You don't engender that kind of loyalty by being a pompous prick.

The commercial posted is basically him taking the piss out of the public perception of who he is and what his movies are.

He's far from a perfect filmmaker, but such a person doesn't actually exist. And while his style is certainly not for everyone, at one point his Transformers movies were raking in over a billion each. The dude had his finger on the pulse, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Funny enough, he did. Almost to the point where Orson Welles was almost killed by Lucy Ball's husband Desi Arnaz, but that is another story.

Ricky... you've got some 'splainin' to doooooo...

While TF: Prime didn't have him say anything overly aggressive and out of character, it leaned way too far into writing Optimus like a platitudinous pontificator whose default personality setting was stoicism.

If I'm being honest, the most characterful line Peter Cullen's Optimus got to speak between any of the movies or TF: Prime was a line in AOE where, after hearing Cade sigh about Tessa's teenage attitude, Optimus replied with an all-too-knowing annoyed half-chuckle of "Yeah, I went through that with Bumblebee!"

It was the most human-sounding relatable line Peter Cullen's Optimus had ever said since Season 2 of the G1 cartoon.

Personally, I'm fond of his work on Rescue Bots:

 

[Andrusi]

I see we've arrived at our local another three years of Three Houses discourse for some reason.

 

[lastmaximal]

Let me add to it.

I think I can agree that the Bayverse Optimus started out okay and relatively faithful, then went off the rails pretty quickly. 2007 was a good first impression, relatively consistent, with some thoughtful, resonant lines that reflected a compassionate character. The barely-written-ness of ROTF shows all over the script, and it's everyone, but we do have "fate rarely calls upon us" and the self-sacrificial gauntlet-run. But once he comes back to life it's snarling face-taking rrrraaaaagh time, and this is more or less kept up across the latter Bay movies. AOE was doubly disappointing for setting the tone of what was in theory a fresh trilogy by having a just-revived Optimus enter the movie snarling "I'll kill you" at least twice. Not "get away from them", not "where have you taken me", not "you'll harm NO more Autobots", just... that. Even at the time I just threw up my hands and went, well, crap, I guess this is just how he's always going to be in these, then. Then TLK built in the excuse of him "not being himself", but at that point what was the difference anyway? (And yeah, ROTB was a second such chance for a fresh start, that was fumbled. But I did like his little "way to be incognito" to Mirage, if only for the slang. In any case, I have no interest in comparing Bay and Knight/Caple.)

I've never much bought into "well, the plot did this to him, he's just reacting", because the plot is as mutable as the dialogue (and also needs changing anyway). This is a character who'd already been fighting this war and losing friends and troops for millions of years, but was still quite together when we first met him. I know something about how one can unravel a LOT in less than a decade, but writing a fictional character is not the same thing. And, as noted, he doesn't have to be written into that tired and fed up position anyway.

But okay, even then: part of what makes him heroic is that he's better than that, to a fault. A lesser robot might become mean and vengeful and a jerk, but he's not lesser, he's aspirational (and can have other flaws). I mean, you know the song, it doesn't go "When all hell's breaking loose, you threaten to murder it". We can take all of the plot positioning at face value, but even excused, that still results in a character who's just unpleasant to watch and at times unrecognizable as THIS character archetype we hope to see.

(There's also how just... artless and flat "I'll kill you" and "you die" are, even in the heat of battle. For as much flak as their interminable reuse has rightly garnered, "One shall stand, one shall fall" are still bars compared to this crass, graceless stuff. It just reeks of "this aint no cartoon" edgelording if said edgelord also had no imagination. This is in line with writing the movies as mostly testosterone-soaked thrill rides that don't aspire to more.)

That said...

I think you might be taking a commercial where he's intentionally playing an exaggerated version of his public perception a bit too seriously

Most of what I've heard of Bay makes him sound pretty casual and self aware. The main complaint I've heard is his Ed Wood "Cut! That was perfect." energy is a culture shock to workers used to taking all day setting up the lights just right and then doing dozens of takes. It's different. Otherwise, he's fun and doesn't take himself too seriously.

Yeah like wtf. It's 2026. We need to be past equating the "the movies he makes are of inconsistent, questionable quality" (feel free to replace that with harsher verbiage, more to my point) with "what a horrible person".

(He may well BE a horrible person in various ways, but that's not a conclusion anyone comes to based solely on talking about how Peter Cullen's part was written in movies he made. There's no shortage of actually relevant accounts and evidence there.)

Using that commercial to make the point is either shocking media illiteracy or outright bad faith argumentation. Or, I suppose, bad comedy.

Maybe the topic overall and Peter Cullen being part of it is sparking some overreaction. The same thing happened in the 86 Movie 40th thread with Peter being massively disrespected when his character got killed off.

In hindsight, it might have been Mairghread Scott who pushed for the "larger than life" TFTM-esque depiction of Optimus and all the excessive TFTM quotes.

That excerpt neither says nor suggests anything of the sort. At most, it seems like she signed off on such writing as being in-character. Her other Transformers writing doesn't seem to be using that crutch, and 1986-movie quoting makes as much sense for the "lore expert" as for a newer-to-it writer whose main connection to Transformers was pop-culture osmosis of the 1986 movie.

 

[The Predaking]

Ricky... you've got some 'splainin' to doooooo...

TLDW: It actually involves TFTM writer Ron Friedman when he worked for Lucille Ball. Ron asked her about the time that she and Desi hired Orson Wells to write for their production company. They found Wells bankrupt, hundreds of thousands in debt to Liquor stores, hotels, and credit cards, while drunk out of his senses. They paid off his debts, put him in the spare house in Palm Springs for him to write an anthology series. Months later, Orson had ran up Desilu charging accounts on wine, custom tailored clothes, expensive food, and other hedonistic impulses without producing anything. One night Lucy woke up and found Desi half-drunk with his gun saying, "I'm going to kill Orson". Lucy tried to talk him out of it, especially driving drunk with a gun, but he left and she went back to sleep, waking up the next morning not knowing if Desi had killed Orson. Desi literally put the gun in Orson's nose and told him that if Orson didn't produce something that they could film in the next three weeks, that he would kill Orson. Ten days later, Orson brought them a Peabody award winning pilot episode of the anthology series called "The Fountain of Youth", but that was the only story that he managed to give them and sadly the series was never made.

 

[LordGigaIce]

That excerpt neither says nor suggests anything of the sort. At most, it seems like she signed off on such writing as being in-character. Her other Transformers writing doesn't seem to be using that crutch, and 1986-movie quoting makes as much sense for the "lore expert" as for a newer-to-it writer whose main connection to Transformers was pop-culture osmosis of the 1986 movie.

Optimus was slinging '86 quotes back in Cybertron. The '07 Bay movie even had "one shall stand, one shall fall."

It's clear that the show runners for Prime weren't uber nerds for this stuff, but that doesn't mean much when we're talking about this. The '86 movie is probably the most iconic and easily quotable bit of G1 media out there. And writers were spamming the "quote the '86 movie" button for Optimus a good deal before Prime as a show happened.

Thing is I don't even think getting people who weren't uber nerds for a Transformers show was a bad call. The state of most geek fandoms today makes a strong case for fans not being the people you wanna rely on for media (see Wars, Star). It wasn't any sort of "lack of respect for the source material" that leaves me cold on Prime... it's just not very good, in my opinion.
Optimus, who is the title character, comes off as dull and lifeless at a time when we know Cullen could still give a good performance as the character. The settings were dull and lifeless in their own way, often being either desaturated, empty, or both. Story arcs aspired to epicness but either fell flat and reverted to the status quo or got truncated and memory hole'd. I'd argue the pack in fiction for Beast Hunters told a far better story around the concept than season three of the show did.
Circling back to point one, though, Optimus comes off as the most boring interpretation of his character possible. And I do think that, uber fans or not, that came down to the show runners assuming that '86 Optimus was just how he always was, because that's what the show gave us. That, and mandates like "Primes don't party," and "Optimus doesn't use contractions." He's not Data ffs. He once played basketball and threw a giant basketball at Spike while shouting "Compute quickly!" He called Astrotrain and Blitzwing "boobies"!

There's also how just... artless and flat "I'll kill you" and "you die" are, even in the heat of battle. For as much flak as their interminable reuse has rightly garnered, "One shall stand, one shall fall" are still bars compared to this crass, graceless stuff. It just reeks of "this aint no cartoon" edgelording if said edgelord also had no imagination. This is in line with writing the movies as mostly testosterone-soaked thrill rides that don't aspire to more.

You're not wrong about either line, and it just kinda goes to how Bay lost the plot of the character as things went on. I do maintain, however, that Caple didn't fair better in his one outing. "Then die!" feels just as wrong for Optimus as "kill them all" and "I'll kill you!" does.

How much of that was Caple picking up where Bay left off vs an entirely unrelated flawed approach that just landed in the same spot is anyone's guess but I'm just saying I don't think Bay was the worst director to handle Optimus as a character. For all of his missteps, he did provide some very on-point bits as well. And sure Bay had five movies and Caple has one, so it's not a 1:1 comparison... but if Bay had only had one we'd say he more or less nailed it

 

[Sabrblade]

He's got his "freedom is the right of all sentient beings" line

Something never actually spoken in any 1980s fiction, mind you.

I don't think I'm reaching to say that Bay intended this to be the bow on the whole thing.

He did want out after DOTM, yeah. It's just Hasbro and Paramount wouldn't let him go and kept sending dump trucks full off cash to his front lawn.

They seemed to settle on leaning into Optimus' jadedness growing, with AoE and TLK, but EVEN THEN what is it that breaks Optimus free from Quintessa's brainwashing? Bumblebee. His friend.

A nice idea in theory. Terrible execution, though, with Bee suddenly, out of nowhere, at the most coincidentally convenient of all times, getting his voice back (a voice that also doesn't sound familiar to any of the longtime viewers of these movies, even, since it's a different actor) just because.

At least TF: Prime had its Bee getting dunked in a pool of synthetic energon to explain his voice's surprise return.

Personally, I'm fond of his work on Rescue Bots:

It is better than TF: Prime, yeah, but still feels within that same ballpark.

"Nothing much, Double Dutch," is cute, but then he immediately slips back into stoic speech mode. And, weirdly, some of his lines in that scene have an underlying growl to them that I'm just now noticing? "But I am certain you are prepared for the ordeal," especially, sounds particularly more threatening and menacing than it was likely meant to sound.

As for his reunion with High Tide and introducing him to Heatwave, Peter could have put a fair degree of more enthusiasm into his performance, which admittedly is probably more of a voice direction issue than a voice acting issue. Optimus being allowed to give just a little more gushing over seeing his old buddy again after all these years and talking him up as "the finest master seaman who ever lived," would have spoken volumes about his relationship with High Tide. As is, he instead comes across as more businesslike with only just a hint of warmth that, while appreciated, could have enhanced the subtle nuances of the scene. Like, Optimus is seeing an old pal of his for the first time in years and he doesn't even chuckle once? Even High Tide's line of "O.P., you old land yacht, how are ya?" is spoken like someone who's implied to be smiling and happy to see him. This is your boy, Optimus. Loosen up just a little bit (Sidenote: Wow, I did not expect to rip into this as much as I did, lol).

 

[The Predaking]

It wasn't any sort of "lack of respect for the source material" that leaves me cold on Prime... it's just not very good, in my opinion.

You need to rewatch TF Prime then. It literally is the best TF show ever made. Not G1, not Beast Wars, definitely nothing from the Unicron trilogy, and not even Animated comes close to this show.

 

[LordGigaIce]

You need to rewatch TF Prime then. It literally is the best TF show ever made. Not G1, not Beast Wars, definitely nothing from the Unicron trilogy, and not even Animated comes close to this show.

I watched it as it aired. I've never felt compelled to go back to it.
Armada and Victory and Masterforce jostle for the top spot of my TF show rankings because I'm a child of the 90s and early 2000s and therefore damaged anime-pilled.

I can respect Prime's aspirations and the stuff that it managed to succeed in, but it just came off as bland. Not terrible, mind you. It wasn't Energon or Combiner Wars levels of suck... but it just wasn't for me. That's not a judgement on your enjoyment of it... different strokes and all.

Something never actually spoken in any 1980s fiction, mind you.

I don't really think that's relevant. It's still an iconic line that fits Optimus perfectly.
Heck, the Bay films even build on that. In that continuity Sentinel is apparently the one who taught Optimus that, and Optimus is utterly disgusted that Sentinel betrayed that belief.
"You taught me freedom was everyone's right!" is, IIRC, the line he says as he's beating down Sentinel. While DotM has the "kill them all" line, Optimus angrily chastising his mentor for failing to live up to his ideals when they were tested (ie the only time ideals mean anything) feels like a perfectly in character thing for a frustrated and angry Optimus to say.
It's wild that DotM as a movie has both a great example of what an angry Optimus should sound like, and a terrible one. It kind of encapsulates Bay's entire run. Both hitting some high points while dropping to tremendous lows.

He did want out after DOTM, yeah. It's just Hasbro and Paramount wouldn't let him go and keep sending dump trucks full off cash to his front lawn.

I just think stuff like that is worth considering. Art doesn't happen in a vacuum, it's influenced by any number of things. Bay planned to wrap his Transformers story up after DotM and gave Optimus a sort of beleaguered "fed up and ready to end this here and now" arc. Which is what happened, and Bay not being a subtle filmmaker even more or less has the characters say as much.

But when he's coaxed back (it was apparently less the money and more that Paramount agreed to fund his passion project Pain and Gain) after he completed the main character's arc he mapped out... what does he do?
I kinda feel like AoE and TLK are just him not caring anymore and taking the piss. He didn't want to be there. He'd done his trilogy and ended it on his terms and he's only there out of an obligation so Paramount would pay for the movie he really wanted to make at that point in his career. So if he has to be there? Dinosaurs! Laminated age of consent cards! Evil Optimus! Optimus riding a robotic t-rex breathing fire! Gun face! It all just reads as a guy who's like "if I have to be here I'm going to go nuts because they don't have the balls to tell me no."

A nice idea in theory. Terrible execution, though, with Bee suddenly, out of nowhere, at the most coincidentally convenient of all times, getting his voice back (a voice that also doesn't sound familiar to any of the longtime viewers of these movies, even, since it's a different actor) just because.

At least TF: Prime had its Bee getting dunked in a pool of synthetic energon to explain his voice's surprise return.

You're not wrong. I'm just saying that the idea of Optimus being turned back to his senses by his deep friendship with one of his oldest comrades is a very Optimus Prime thing. Execution is utterly dumb, but that's everything about TLK after the King Arthur stuff. Just saying that there is at least a glimmer of understanding of Optimus' character at work.

Speaking of the King Arthur stuff... that's one reason why I can't hate Bay even by TLK when he's just given up. The King Arthur stuff is genuinely very good (drunken Merlin is an acquired taste, but the idea of Merlin using some alien tech to pantomime being a wizard has precedent in modern Arthurian fiction) and I kinda wish we got to see Bay just do a movie about King Arthur and his Cybertronian buddies.
Like the battle scene, then cinematography, the tension... again, I can't hate Michael Bay as much as the internet wants me to. The guy knows how cinema works as a spectacle.