Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[Thylacine 2000]

Hmmm...



(Source: - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-jewish-chronicle-jc-bias-and-credibility/)

That is completely irrelevant to the issue of what Williams herself is directly quoted as saying.

(Source: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Jill_Edwards)

"She was criticised by Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor" - great, and what did PETA and the Flat Earth Society say about her too? Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor is an ideal example of how Palestine discourse is filled with weird, unaccomplished racists who know enough to fill out the paperwork to be declared a charity. Their founder says Jews - excuse me, Israelis - drink blood, like some illiterate peasant from 1730, and has also called the perpetrators of Oct 7th "heroic brave martyrs" who he admires. Their board chairman is a 9/11Truther who says Israel committed the Boston Marathon Bombing.

 

[Wheelimus]

I appreciate you trying to help Thy but like his elevendy reported posts it's best to just ignore PrimallxConvoy. He'll never listen nor change.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

That is completely irrelevant to the issue of what Williams herself is directly quoted as saying.

It's not. The newspaper itself is arguably biased and reports from it may need to be taken with a pinch of salt, due to said biases.

Their founder says Jews - excuse me, Israelis - drink blood, like some illiterate peasant from 1730, and has also called the perpetrators of Oct 7th "heroic brave martyrs" who he admires. Their board chairman is a 9/11Truther who says Israel committed the Boston Marathon Bombing.

Citation needed.

For anyone interested in the organisation:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Mediterranean_Human_Rights_Monitor

- https://euromedmonitor.org/en

The founder, Ramy Abdu:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramy_Abdu

I found a website that criticised Ramy Abdu:

- https://ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/

However:

"Academics, diplomats, and journalists have criticized NGO Monitor for allowing its research and conclusions to be driven by politics, for not examining right-wing NGOs, and for spreading misinformation. Several academics have written that NGO Monitor's aims and activities are political in nature..."

(Source: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO_Monitor)

The chairman is Richard A Falk:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Falk

His own Wikipedia article contains numerous criticisms of his ideas. His views on 9-11 were interesting (but I couldn't find any link to anti-semitism in his outspoken questioning of what we know about 9-11, although I believe most of his views about 9-11 are a bit kooky myself).

His main criticisms seem to come from an organisation called "UN Watch":

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Watch

Although that too is not without it's own criticisms:

"UN Watch is a pro-Israel lobby group, and primarily denounces what it views as anti-Israel sentiment at the UN and UN-sponsored events...

...Scott McConnell...[stated]...in his view, "a well-funded neocon group called UN Watch and its various media allies had ginned up an intense public relations campaign, based on falsifying the meaning of his piece, using ellipses to distort its sentences, to claim that Falk had said that the Boston victims somehow deserved their fate."

(Sources: - Previously mentioned Wikipedia articles above).

 

[Ironbite4]

I appreciate you trying to help Thy but like his elevendy reported posts it's best to just ignore PrimallxConvoy. He'll never listen nor change.

Really? After Thy flat out said anything from Al Jeezera was suspect as well? Come on Wheels.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Citation needed.

Citation deliberately not provided. I gave you a person's identity and a specific quote of theirs. I want you to look it up for yourself - and good for you, you found one! Since you can now see for yourself Ramy Abdu idolizing the Oct.7th death squads and Richard Falk saying Israel blew up the Boston Marathon, you don't have to keep copy-pasting Mediabiasfactcheck links that nobody cares about and that add nothing to these discussions. You can just admit I'm right.

SEE ALSO: the time you asked me to cite a source that Lebanon had invaded Israel in the 1940s and had later fought a civil war in itself. This is all extremely basic knowledge about well-known players. You are on the Internet, stop this time-killing diversionary tactic of constantly requesting sources. It looks BETTER FOR YOUR SIDE if you instead say "I looked this up and can't find a source," do you understand that?

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Citation deliberately not provided. I gave you a person's identity and a specific quote of theirs. I want you to look it up for yourself - and good for you, you found one!

Unless you provide evidence for your opinions, I cannot consider what you write seriously. Please cite your sources in the future.

Since you can now see for yourself Ramy Abdu idolizing the Oct.7th death squads and Richard Falk saying Israel blew up the Boston Marathon, you don't have to keep copy-pasting Mediabiasfactcheck links that nobody cares about and that add nothing to these discussions. You can just admit I'm right.

I will continue to cite various media bias sites for sources I'm unfamiliar with. It seems the ones you've used recently are right-ring ones, with close ties to the Israeli government and/ones that are extremely pro-Israel. They seem to lack credibility, according to the sites I've cited, due to their lack of fact-checking.

I don't remember reading in the Wikipedia articles about those people anything relating to your own criticisms of them, such as "jews drinking blood, etc" I'm still waiting for your evidence for those claims.

This, unfortunately, doesn't make you "right".

SEE ALSO: the time you asked me to cite a source that Lebanon had invaded Israel in the 1940s and had later fought a civil war in itself. This is all extremely basic knowledge about well-known players.

Citation for our claims or opinions is always a good thing. It's what I try to do myself. This is to help not only those I'm debating or discussing issues with to see where I'm coming from but also for anyone else unfamiliar with the topic too. I will freely admit that they don't make me "right" either, but they provide a basis for continued debate (and they help me to remember here where I've gotten my own information from).

You are on the Internet, stop this time-killing diversionary tactic of constantly requesting sources. It looks BETTER FOR YOUR SIDE if you instead say "I looked this up and can't find a source," do you understand that?

"Side"? Which side is that? Regardless, I seem to recall not being able to find sources for some things in this thread. I think you've provided some interesting sources yourself too. I've never positioned myself as an expert here. I would say that's precisely why we should always provide sources for our opinions or views. Simply saying "It's a fact and I'm right" isn't going to educate anyone, nor win any "battle" that any of us here think we're waging.

I'm sorry that asking you to cite your sources for your opinions or views is such a strain or uncomfortable for you (but I thank you for the ones you've provided previously).

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Have you noticed the clear problem of relying on whatever "Mediabiasfactcheck" is for the sake of diagnosing the purported quality of other sources? What have they done to earn your trust on the question of who you should trust? Who watches your watchmen?

And yes - you had direct access to the sources for these critiques of that fake charity. You were one click away from seeing the screenshots. From the source WE BOTH ARE USING you can plainly see Ramy Abdu idolizing the heroic martyrs of Oct. 7. Are you going to take it seriously now that I cut and pasted it for you, which counts for more than you yourself clicking on the same page we were both looking at?

Ramy Abdu| رامي عبده (@RamAbdu) on X

ها قد حان الرحيل بعد أن كُتبت لك النجاة تسع مرات في سنوات جهادك الطويلة… لقد استطعت إعلان خبر ارتقاء شقيقتي وقطعة قلبي وأبناءها أحباب روحي، لكن والله إن هذا النعي أثقل ما خطت يداي، لرجل كان نعم الأخ الكبير والسند الذي لا مثيل له منذ سنوات عمري الأولى. أنعى إليكم قائدنا الكبير...

x.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1901935404829261905

Let's go back to U.N. Special Rapporteur Alice Edwards, claiming other U.N. staff tried to bury her report on torture committed on Oct. 7th. You have a problem with her claim being published in The JC. Do you think The JC spoofed and hoaxed a claim she never said? It isn't from them, it's from her. Likewise, when we have links and screenshots to direct quotes, what is the importance of whether they came from NGO Monitor or UN Watch unless the point is that these are spoofed quotes that were in fact never said? Maybe Ramy "Google Ramy Abdu insatiable appetite drinking blood" Abdu canceled out Alice Edwards claim to have had her work suppressed, but then NGO Monitor cancelled out Abdu, so nobody said anything on any subject. NONE of these citations you are so eager for could be trusted - you've never heard of any of this stuff until today, and Elon Musk could have rewritten the whole internet yesterday.


Look, PcX.... I am going to be as gracious as I can and choose to interpret this as us having extremely different learning styles. I get pulled down rabbit holes quickly, I automatically look up things I've never heard of, especially on topics that are important enough to me that (like in this case) I discuss them on my free time for years. I just don't understand someone repeatedly year-on-year not only NOT doing that but also seemingly expecting other people to read through and explain sources at them. I can accept that this is not being done to be rude, but I hope you can consider that it's not great for a long-term discussion.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Have you noticed the clear problem of relying on whatever "Mediabiasfactcheck" is for the sake of diagnosing the purported quality of other sources? What have they done to earn your trust on the question of who you should trust? Who watches your watchmen?

I have used a variety of such sites. They are provided for more information about various media sites. As stated before, they seem to suggest your sources are mainly right-wing, pro-Israeli and may lack credibility due to poor fact-checking and bias.

You are welcome to use other sources that call these sites out and/or question them if you wish.

And yes - you had direct access to the sources for these critiques of that fake charity. You were one click away from seeing the screenshots. From the source WE BOTH ARE USING you can plainly see Ramy Abdu idolizing the heroic martyrs of Oct. 7. Are you going to take it seriously now that I cut and pasted it for you, which counts for more than you yourself clicking on the same page we were both looking at?

Ramy Abdu| رامي عبده (@RamAbdu) on X

ها قد حان الرحيل بعد أن كُتبت لك النجاة تسع مرات في سنوات جهادك الطويلة… لقد استطعت إعلان خبر ارتقاء شقيقتي وقطعة قلبي وأبناءها أحباب روحي، لكن والله إن هذا النعي أثقل ما خطت يداي، لرجل كان نعم الأخ الكبير والسند الذي لا مثيل له منذ سنوات عمري الأولى. أنعى إليكم قائدنا الكبير...

x.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1901935404829261905

Please forgive my lack of Arabic, but from what I translated, he mourned the loss of this person;

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Obeida

However, where is the part about "Their founder says Jews - excuse me, Israelis - drink blood, like some illiterate peasant from 1730..", which you stated above?

Let's go back to U.N. Special Rapporteur Alice Edwards, claiming other U.N. staff tried to bury her report on torture committed on Oct. 7th. You have a problem with her claim being published in The JC. Do you think The JC spoofed and hoaxed a claim she never said? It isn't from them, it's from her.

If it's from her, why not use a source that has arguably more credibility than the one you've used?

Likewise, when we have links and screenshots to direct quotes, what is the importance of whether they came from NGO Monitor or UN Watch unless the point is that these are spoofed quotes that were in fact never said?

See above.

Maybe Ramy "Google Ramy Abdu insatiable appetite drinking blood" Abdu canceled out Alice Edwards claim to have had her work suppressed, but then NGO Monitor cancelled out Abdu, so nobody said anything on any subject. NONE of these citations you are so eager for could be trusted - you've never heard of any of this stuff until today, and Elon Musk could have rewritten the whole internet yesterday.

I agree, I'm new to most of this. That's why I've asked for citations. However, credible sources also help. I've looked online and could find no evidence for your claims about Ramy Abdu stating that "Jews drank blood".

Again, I'm happy for you to provide evidence.

Look, PcX.... I am going to be as gracious as I can and choose to interpret this as us having extremely different learning styles. I get pulled down rabbit holes quickly, I automatically look up things I've never heard of, especially on topics that are important enough to me that (like in this case) I discuss them on my free time for years. When I see someone who repeatedly long-term year after year after year not only DOESN'T automatically do that but repeatedly demands to have any provided sources be searched-through and explained for them, it strikes me as rude. I could accept that you do not mean it to be rude, but even if done for the sake of thoroughness, I really think it would be a better use of time to try to search up unfamiliar terms and histories oneself first.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I interpret people who make claims online (without citing the source) as either unable to do so (and sometimes that's fine, at long as they admit this), unwilling to prove their point and/or unwilling to help educate others, which appears to me, at least, as somewhat rude (or in some cases, as ignorant).

I was taught at school to always provide sources (or at least personal context) for opinions (and even counterpoints as due diligence) when discussing or debating issues.

Regardless, posting the original sources and links (if correct) only helps to provide more info to back your own claims and/or provide new facts to enrich this discussion.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

https://archive.ph/7OqcH

so anyway

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

https://archive.ph/7OqcH

so anyway

Thank you for the link. Was that more "Israel is bloodthirsty, due to killing children" or "Jews drink blood" though?

I believe it to be the former.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Nobody asked.

Jewish people recognize it as antisemitism, so it is. If someone called Barack Obama an uppity monkey ("because of how he killed American citizens without trial," whatever the excuse), exactly ZERO people of the typical Allspark clientele would argue 8 rounds with black people about whether that was racist or a critique of a government.

And look how instantly the goalposts shift from "he didn't say it" to "okay he said it, but it's not a bad thing to say." The time for you to argue in good faith that "Jews - excuse me, ISRAELIS - drink blood" isn't a racist statement would have been when I first claimed it. No need to see evidence of something unimportant.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Nobody asked.

Jewish people recognize it as antisemitism, so it is. If someone called Barack Obama an uppity monkey ("because of how he killed American citizens without trial," whatever the excuse), exactly ZERO people of the typical Allspark clientele would argue 8 rounds with black people about whether that was racist or a critique of a government.

And look how instantly the goalposts shift from "he didn't say it" to "okay he said it, but it's not a bad thing to say." The time for you to argue in good faith that "Jews - excuse me, ISRAELIS - drink blood" isn't a racist statement would have been when I first claimed it. No need to see evidence of something unimportant.

No goalposts were moved. You were asked to provide evidence for a comment you made (which seemingly was hard to find, on account of the original Twitter post being removed) and you did. Again, thank you. I searched for "Ramy Abdul Jews blood libel" (and also included "Jews drink blood"), I couldn't find any evidence myself.

After looking at the evidence, I simply questioned whether you inferred the point the person made correctly. They were referring to a photo of several (possibly) dead bodies of Palestinian children, with blood on some of them. Ramy then described the Israeli's as "having an insatiable appetite for drinking the blood of Palestinian children".

Perhaps the context was due to the Israeli military killing innocent Palestinian children? I would say that's pretty "blood thirsty", if that's what they meant.

I think what's more of note is their follow-up question, which seems to allude that such murderous intent is baked-into the (Jewish) religion or the psyche of Jews and/or Israelis in general.

 

[Pocket]

OK, listen you two. First off, Primal, I hope you realize how much you sound like those alt-right chuds who challenge people to debates and then brush off everything that's said to them with long-winded strings of ten dollar words that mean nothing. I get that the whole blood-libel conspiracy theory isn't exactly something they teach about in public school—I went through most of my 30s having never heard of it either—but it's come up several times in the past on this forum. Please stop pretending the thing in front of you that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck could be a swan or a hologram.

And Thylacine, I hope you realize how much you sound like a Qanoner telling people to "do your own research"—not in the sense that the "research" in question is conspiracy theory BS, but in the sense that you yourself didn't actually do any research, you just had specific social media posts fall into your lap during your daily doomscroll and you have no idea what an earnest attempt to find them would actually turn up. Even if you did spend hours poring over search results for specific topics, "I put in the work so now I expect everyone else to do the same, even if it would take me all of two seconds to save them the bother" sounds like the sort of thing a one-percenter would say to justify defunding essential government services.

And I think both of you need to take a step back and ask yourselves why you're so sure there's some good-guy faction worth defending in this conflict at all. Because this isn't some Hollywood movie where you're obviously supposed to side with the Rebel Alliance against the Evil Empire. This is reality, and reality is often messy. Lord knows we've got no shortage of clear black-and-white issues out there, and if you need someone on the bad-guy side to use as a punching bag, the rest of the internet is full of them.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Pocket, did it escape your attention that everything I said about these people turned out to be true? Do you think that was pure coin-tossing chance, every time? Gee, I'd better go buy some lottery tickets, cause I'm sure the random-luckiest guy in the world.

This was not a topical issue at all and it sure wasn't in any social media doomscroll. It was all litigated out years ago and I was reciting it from memory, I could have said more that would have been true too, the same way your average Allsparker could summon up the greatest hits of Donald Trump or JK Rowling.

You think PxC maybe never heard of blood libel, and you yourself only heard of it in your 30s. Well, I learned about it as a little kid in Hebrew school because it gets people like me killed. This is MY heritage, MY history, MY FAMILY's life-and-death risk. During my son's Bar Mitzvah in 2022, and I mean DURING, was the Texas synagogue hostage crisis, the one where the Maybe-Just-A-Critic-Of-Israel involved held a congregation at gunpoint and called a different rabbi on the phone ordering them to make the international Jewish conspiracy have another Maybe-Just-A-Critic-Of-Israel released from prison, and the victims had to save themselves, hitting the guy with a chair and running for it. And across the country our security head, running the large security staff our facilities must have, pulled me aside for a huddle and assured me there was no sign of a threat for us, but did I want to stop anyway?

Notice I am deliberately not providing a link to that incident. Instead I gave enough detail that someone who wanted to be a polite tourist in the lives of others should be able to find it in 3 seconds using the same internet they're reading this on. Or they could try just believing the lived experience of minorities, especially after they've spent years providing hundreds of sources and showing they actually know what they are talking about.

And that goes x1000 for PxC and his non-stop sealioning and weaponized incompetence shtick, acting like time began yesterday and like it's anyone else's responsibility beyond his own to make up for all the history he never learned in a topic that for some reason he is occupying.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

In other news...

Israeli fire kills nine people in Gaza, including a child, medics say.

Israeli strikes and gunfire killed at least nine people, including a child, in the Gaza ‌Strip on Saturday, health officials said.

An Israeli airstrike killed four Palestinians, including two women and a child, in an apartment building in Gaza City, health officials said. The attack on the building in the Sabra neighborhood of Gaza City destroyed the apartment and wounded several other people, medics added.

The Israeli military said it struck a militant, without elaborating.
In another incident, Israeli forces shot and killed a woman in Beit Lahiya town further north, ⁠medics said. An Israeli airstrike killed at least one person and wounded eight others in Khan Younis, south of the enclave.

Later on Saturday, an Israeli airstrike killed three people, including a local photographer, in the Bureij refugee camp in the central Gaza Strip, medics said.
The Israeli military did not immediately comment on any of the incidents...

(Source: - https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...e-gaza-including-child-medics-say-2026-06-20/)

(Source: - https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...e-gaza-including-child-medics-say-2026-06-20/)

​

The following is about Israel and Lebanon's issues with each other. I've included it below as I'm not sure if another thread is needed.

BBC sees destroyed villages in Israeli-occupied southern Lebanon.​

The BBC has been given rare access to the part of southern Lebanon that is under Israeli occupation, as part of a humanitarian convoy of the Order of Malta distributing aid to Christian villages that have been isolated because of the war.

The mission happened on Thursday, a day before the announcement of a new ceasefire in the conflict between Israel and the Shia Muslim armed group Hezbollah. The team saw the Israeli military presence but was not allowed to film much of the journey.

Israel says it has no intention of withdrawing its troops from Lebanon, and that its plan is to create a security zone along the border, Hezbollah-free, to protect its northern communities from the group's rockets and drones.

In the occupied areas, mainly Shia villages have been completely destroyed by Israeli air strikes or demolitions. Human rights groups say that some of what has happened there amounts to the deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure, a possible war crime.

(Paywall-free Source, including video: - https://removepaywalls.com/https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c8r2pyv3e2po)

Israeli attack kills famed turtle sanctuary ecologist in Lebanon.​

The Lebanese marine activist Mona Khalil, who became a beloved figure in the country for a decades-long effort to protect a nesting site for turtles near her home, has died from injuries sustained in an Israeli strike.

Khalil, 76, ran a sanctuary called the Orange House Project near the Mediterranean city of Tyre. She hosted volunteers in her house to clean and monitor a mile-long beach and welcomed tourists to stay and learn about conservation.

An Israeli airstrike hit her house earlier this month, severely wounding Khalil, who was moved to an intensive-care unit in Beirut before succumbing to her injuries on Friday, according to friends. Her assistant, an Ethiopian woman, suffered burns but was recovering...

(Source: - https://removepaywalls.com/https://...urtle-ecologist-lebanon-killed-israeli-attack)