Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Thylacine 2000

Well-known member
Citizen
That is completely irrelevant to the issue of what Williams herself is directly quoted as saying.

"She was criticised by Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor" - great, and what did PETA and the Flat Earth Society say about her too? Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor is an ideal example of how Palestine discourse is filled with weird, unaccomplished racists who know enough to fill out the paperwork to be declared a charity. Their founder says Jews - excuse me, Israelis - drink blood, like some illiterate peasant from 1730, and has also called the perpetrators of Oct 7th "heroic brave martyrs" who he admires. Their board chairman is a 9/11Truther who says Israel committed the Boston Marathon Bombing.
 
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PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
That is completely irrelevant to the issue of what Williams herself is directly quoted as saying.
It's not. The newspaper itself is arguably biased and reports from it may need to be taken with a pinch of salt, due to said biases.

Their founder says Jews - excuse me, Israelis - drink blood, like some illiterate peasant from 1730, and has also called the perpetrators of Oct 7th "heroic brave martyrs" who he admires. Their board chairman is a 9/11Truther who says Israel committed the Boston Marathon Bombing.
Citation needed.

For anyone interested in the organisation:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Mediterranean_Human_Rights_Monitor

- https://euromedmonitor.org/en

The founder, Ramy Abdu:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramy_Abdu

I found a website that criticised Ramy Abdu:

- https://ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/

However:
"Academics, diplomats, and journalists have criticized NGO Monitor for allowing its research and conclusions to be driven by politics, for not examining right-wing NGOs, and for spreading misinformation. Several academics have written that NGO Monitor's aims and activities are political in nature..."

(Source: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO_Monitor)

The chairman is Richard A Falk:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Falk

His own Wikipedia article contains numerous criticisms of his ideas. His views on 9-11 were interesting (but I couldn't find any link to anti-semitism in his outspoken questioning of what we know about 9-11, although I believe most of his views about 9-11 are a bit kooky myself).

His main criticisms seem to come from an organisation called "UN Watch":

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Watch

Although that too is not without it's own criticisms:

"UN Watch is a pro-Israel lobby group, and primarily denounces what it views as anti-Israel sentiment at the UN and UN-sponsored events...

...Scott McConnell...[stated]...in his view, "a well-funded neocon group called UN Watch and its various media allies had ginned up an intense public relations campaign, based on falsifying the meaning of his piece, using ellipses to distort its sentences, to claim that Falk had said that the Boston victims somehow deserved their fate."

(Sources: - Previously mentioned Wikipedia articles above).
 
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Thylacine 2000

Well-known member
Citizen
Citation needed.
Citation deliberately not provided. I gave you a person's identity and a specific quote of theirs. I want you to look it up for yourself - and good for you, you found one! Since you can now see for yourself Ramy Abdu idolizing the Oct.7th death squads and Richard Falk saying Israel blew up the Boston Marathon, you don't have to keep copy-pasting Mediabiasfactcheck links that nobody cares about and that add nothing to these discussions. You can just admit I'm right.

SEE ALSO: the time you asked me to cite a source that Lebanon had invaded Israel in the 1940s and had later fought a civil war in itself. This is all extremely basic knowledge about well-known players. You are on the Internet, stop this time-killing diversionary tactic of constantly requesting sources. It looks BETTER FOR YOUR SIDE if you instead say "I looked this up and can't find a source," do you understand that?
 

PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
Citation deliberately not provided. I gave you a person's identity and a specific quote of theirs. I want you to look it up for yourself - and good for you, you found one!
Unless you provide evidence for your opinions, I cannot consider what you write seriously. Please cite your sources in the future.

Since you can now see for yourself Ramy Abdu idolizing the Oct.7th death squads and Richard Falk saying Israel blew up the Boston Marathon, you don't have to keep copy-pasting Mediabiasfactcheck links that nobody cares about and that add nothing to these discussions. You can just admit I'm right.
I will continue to cite various media bias sites for sources I'm unfamiliar with. It seems the ones you've used recently are right-ring ones, with close ties to the Israeli government and/ones that are extremely pro-Israel. They seem to lack credibility, according to the sites I've cited, due to their lack of fact-checking.

I don't remember reading in the Wikipedia articles about those people anything relating to your own criticisms of them, such as "jews drinking blood, etc" I'm still waiting for your evidence for those claims.

This, unfortunately, doesn't make you "right".

SEE ALSO: the time you asked me to cite a source that Lebanon had invaded Israel in the 1940s and had later fought a civil war in itself. This is all extremely basic knowledge about well-known players.
Citation for our claims or opinions is always a good thing. It's what I try to do myself. This is to help not only those I'm debating or discussing issues with to see where I'm coming from but also for anyone else unfamiliar with the topic too. I will freely admit that they don't make me "right" either, but they provide a basis for continued debate (and they help me to remember here where I've gotten my own information from).

You are on the Internet, stop this time-killing diversionary tactic of constantly requesting sources. It looks BETTER FOR YOUR SIDE if you instead say "I looked this up and can't find a source," do you understand that?

"Side"? Which side is that? Regardless, I seem to recall not being able to find sources for some things in this thread. I think you've provided some interesting sources yourself too. I've never positioned myself as an expert here. I would say that's precisely why we should always provide sources for our opinions or views. Simply saying "It's a fact and I'm right" isn't going to educate anyone, nor win any "battle" that any of us here think we're waging.

I'm sorry that asking you to cite your sources for your opinions or views is such a strain or uncomfortable for you (but I thank you for the ones you've provided previously).
 
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Thylacine 2000

Well-known member
Citizen
Have you noticed the clear problem of relying on whatever "Mediabiasfactcheck" is for the sake of diagnosing the purported quality of other sources? What have they done to earn your trust on the question of who you should trust? Who watches your watchmen?

And yes - you had direct access to the sources for these critiques of that fake charity. You were one click away from seeing the screenshots. From the source WE BOTH ARE USING you can plainly see Ramy Abdu idolizing the heroic martyrs of Oct. 7. Are you going to take it seriously now that I cut and pasted it for you, which counts for more than you yourself clicking on the same page we were both looking at?





Let's go back to U.N. Special Rapporteur Alice Edwards, claiming other U.N. staff tried to bury her report on torture committed on Oct. 7th. You have a problem with her claim being published in The JC. Do you think The JC spoofed and hoaxed a claim she never said? It isn't from them, it's from her. Likewise, when we have links and screenshots to direct quotes, what is the importance of whether they came from NGO Monitor or UN Watch unless the point is that these are spoofed quotes that were in fact never said? Maybe Ramy "Google Ramy Abdu insatiable appetite drinking blood" Abdu canceled out Alice Edwards claim to have had her work suppressed, but then NGO Monitor cancelled out Abdu, so nobody said anything on any subject. NONE of these citations you are so eager for could be trusted - you've never heard of any of this stuff until today, and Elon Musk could have rewritten the whole internet yesterday.


Look, PcX.... I am going to be as gracious as I can and choose to interpret this as us having extremely different learning styles. I get pulled down rabbit holes quickly, I automatically look up things I've never heard of, especially on topics that are important enough to me that (like in this case) I discuss them on my free time for years. I just don't understand someone repeatedly year-on-year not only NOT doing that but also seemingly expecting other people to read through and explain sources at them. I can accept that this is not being done to be rude, but I hope you can consider that it's not great for a long-term discussion.
 
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PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
Have you noticed the clear problem of relying on whatever "Mediabiasfactcheck" is for the sake of diagnosing the purported quality of other sources? What have they done to earn your trust on the question of who you should trust? Who watches your watchmen?
I have used a variety of such sites. They are provided for more information about various media sites. As stated before, they seem to suggest your sources are mainly right-wing, pro-Israeli and may lack credibility due to poor fact-checking and bias.

You are welcome to use other sources that call these sites out and/or question them if you wish.

And yes - you had direct access to the sources for these critiques of that fake charity. You were one click away from seeing the screenshots. From the source WE BOTH ARE USING you can plainly see Ramy Abdu idolizing the heroic martyrs of Oct. 7. Are you going to take it seriously now that I cut and pasted it for you, which counts for more than you yourself clicking on the same page we were both looking at?



Please forgive my lack of Arabic, but from what I translated, he mourned the loss of this person;

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Obeida

However, where is the part about "Their founder says Jews - excuse me, Israelis - drink blood, like some illiterate peasant from 1730..", which you stated above?

Let's go back to U.N. Special Rapporteur Alice Edwards, claiming other U.N. staff tried to bury her report on torture committed on Oct. 7th. You have a problem with her claim being published in The JC. Do you think The JC spoofed and hoaxed a claim she never said? It isn't from them, it's from her.
If it's from her, why not use a source that has arguably more credibility than the one you've used?

Likewise, when we have links and screenshots to direct quotes, what is the importance of whether they came from NGO Monitor or UN Watch unless the point is that these are spoofed quotes that were in fact never said?
See above.

Maybe Ramy "Google Ramy Abdu insatiable appetite drinking blood" Abdu canceled out Alice Edwards claim to have had her work suppressed, but then NGO Monitor cancelled out Abdu, so nobody said anything on any subject. NONE of these citations you are so eager for could be trusted - you've never heard of any of this stuff until today, and Elon Musk could have rewritten the whole internet yesterday.
I agree, I'm new to most of this. That's why I've asked for citations. However, credible sources also help. I've looked online and could find no evidence for your claims about Ramy Abdu stating that "Jews drank blood".

Again, I'm happy for you to provide evidence.

Look, PcX.... I am going to be as gracious as I can and choose to interpret this as us having extremely different learning styles. I get pulled down rabbit holes quickly, I automatically look up things I've never heard of, especially on topics that are important enough to me that (like in this case) I discuss them on my free time for years. When I see someone who repeatedly long-term year after year after year not only DOESN'T automatically do that but repeatedly demands to have any provided sources be searched-through and explained for them, it strikes me as rude. I could accept that you do not mean it to be rude, but even if done for the sake of thoroughness, I really think it would be a better use of time to try to search up unfamiliar terms and histories oneself first.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I interpret people who make claims online (without citing the source) as either unable to do so (and sometimes that's fine, at long as they admit this), unwilling to prove their point and/or unwilling to help educate others, which appears to me, at least, as somewhat rude (or in some cases, as ignorant).

I was taught at school to always provide sources (or at least personal context) for opinions (and even counterpoints as due diligence) when discussing or debating issues.

Regardless, posting the original sources and links (if correct) only helps to provide more info to back your own claims and/or provide new facts to enrich this discussion.

Thank you for your time.
 
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Thylacine 2000

Well-known member
Citizen
Nobody asked.

Jewish people recognize it as antisemitism, so it is. If someone called Barack Obama an uppity monkey ("because of how he killed American citizens without trial," whatever the excuse), exactly ZERO people of the typical Allspark clientele would argue 8 rounds with black people about whether that was racist or a critique of a government.

And look how instantly the goalposts shift from "he didn't say it" to "okay he said it, but it's not a bad thing to say." The time for you to argue in good faith that "Jews - excuse me, ISRAELIS - drink blood" isn't a racist statement would have been when I first claimed it. No need to see evidence of something unimportant.
 
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PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
Nobody asked.

Jewish people recognize it as antisemitism, so it is. If someone called Barack Obama an uppity monkey ("because of how he killed American citizens without trial," whatever the excuse), exactly ZERO people of the typical Allspark clientele would argue 8 rounds with black people about whether that was racist or a critique of a government.

And look how instantly the goalposts shift from "he didn't say it" to "okay he said it, but it's not a bad thing to say." The time for you to argue in good faith that "Jews - excuse me, ISRAELIS - drink blood" isn't a racist statement would have been when I first claimed it. No need to see evidence of something unimportant.
No goalposts were moved. You were asked to provide evidence for a comment you made (which seemingly was hard to find, on account of the original Twitter post being removed) and you did. Again, thank you. I searched for "Ramy Abdul Jews blood libel" (and also included "Jews drink blood"), I couldn't find any evidence myself.

After looking at the evidence, I simply questioned whether you inferred the point the person made correctly. They were referring to a photo of several (possibly) dead bodies of Palestinian children, with blood on some of them. Ramy then described the Israeli's as "having an insatiable appetite for drinking the blood of Palestinian children".

Perhaps the context was due to the Israeli military killing innocent Palestinian children? I would say that's pretty "blood thirsty", if that's what they meant.

I think what's more of note is their follow-up question, which seems to allude that such murderous intent is baked-into the (Jewish) religion or the psyche of Jews and/or Israelis in general.
 


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