Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

[Ungnome]

Would actually be funny if his supporters just gave him write-in-votes even IF he was barred from holding public office due to insurrection charges. Granted I'm not looking forward to 4 more years of Biden, but it sure beats having 4 to 8 years of whatever comes out of the Republican clown car next year.

 

[DefaultOption]

Fun fact: If you're charged with insurrection - not convicted, just charged - you are legally barred from holding public office for the rest of your life.

I wouldn't get too excited about this, because it's never had its Constitutionality challenged, and Lord knows that this SCOTUS would go out of their way to make a partisan judgement given half a chance.

 

[Spin-Out]

Enh, generally this SCOTUS, and the courts in general, have a "hug you, I got mine" attitude towards Trump. Back when he was trying to contest the election he got fucked over by his own nominees, lol

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

Most of SCOTUS has long since gone rogue, so it'll depend if today is a "screw Trump" or "screw Dems" day.

 

[abates]

I wouldn't get too excited about this, because it's never had its Constitutionality challenged, and Lord knows that this SCOTUS would go out of their way to make a partisan judgement given half a chance.

I feel like that should be constitutionally challenged. It goes counter to innocent until proven guilty.

 

[wonko the sane?]

I feel like that should be constitutionally challenged. It goes counter to innocent until proven guilty.

Agreed in principle... but charges under the espionage act are so infrequent and only used on... events of significant seriousness. Honestly I don't have a problem with the charges alone coming with a penalty like this because whatever the hell you were doing that even LOOKS like espionage is probably going to come with sound kind of criminal penalty anyway.

But it also should be challenged, and it needs to hit the supreme court, and it needs to pass if only to set the benchmarks of "applies literally everyone" and "our justice system is not a farce".

 

[DefaultOption]

I feel like that should be constitutionally challenged. It goes counter to innocent until proven guilty.

The analysis I was reading was actually arguing that because the requirements for holding the office of the Presidency are specified in the Constitution, it would take a Constitutional Amendment to alter those requirements, a simple statute wouldn't have enough force of law to do it.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

I'm assuming that, even if a charge for insurrection bars one from running for (let alone holding) an office, an acquittal would restore that privilege.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

The analysis I was reading was actually arguing that because the requirements for holding the office of the Presidency are specified in the Constitution, it would take a Constitutional Amendment to alter those requirements, a simple statute wouldn't have enough force of law to do it.

This is probably how the Supreme Court would rule on it. It's one of the few things the Constitution bothers to be specific about.

 

[wonko the sane?]

I'm assuming that, even if a charge for insurrection bars one from running for (let alone holding) an office, an acquittal would restore that privilege.

I have no idea, but given north americas penchant for "trial by media" even if the individual is acquitted I doubt they could over come the social cost of being accused of being a spy and traitor.

*Sigh* Unless you're trump and his cult ******* celebrates it.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

I have no idea, but given north americas penchant for "trial by media" even if the individual is acquitted I doubt they could over come the social cost of being accused of being a spy and traitor.

*Sigh* Unless you're trump and his cult ******* celebrates it.

All that scenario demonstrates is that a (non-Trump) person, once charged with insurrection, would have trouble winning an election, even if acquitted. It doesn't prevent them from running.

 

[Bainreese]

Hearing of the target letter was like Christmas in July today.

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

At this point, I refuse to get hyped over anything less than actually throwing him behind bars. We get a new "smoking gun" at least once a week and he's still free.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Pretty much. There's looming indictments in both DC and Georgia, his current total (without those two mentioned before.) accused crimes number 71, and not one judge has turned around and stated "given the history of the defendant: he should be held until trial if only to curb his habit of breaking the law.".

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

At this point, I refuse to get hyped over anything less than actually throwing him behind bars. We get a new "smoking gun" at least once a week and he's still free.

I think I may have said before, as much as I'd love him to actually be arrested for his crimes, I see little to no chance of that happening. I'll be happy if he's somehow barred from ever holding political office again.

NEITHER scenario stops Trump from actively riling up his base, but nothing short of death will do that, so there's nothing to do but wait....

 

[Pocket]

No, his base won't let his death stop them, and if anything it'll just cement his status as a messianic figure. Even if his death was entirely from messianic causes. After all, that's the difference between a mere cult and a religion, whether the founder is still alive.

 

[Pale Rider]

A not-insignificant portion of his base thinks JFK Jr. is still alive and Joe Biden is dead. The guy in the White House is apparently a clone. Just sayin'.

 

[Ungnome]

Which reminds me 'All Hail Clone Biden, may your genetic code endure for millennia.'

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

No, his base won't let his death stop them, and if anything it'll just cement his status as a messianic figure. Even if his death was entirely from messianic causes. After all, that's the difference between a mere cult and a religion, whether the founder is still alive.

I did not say that MAGA would die without Trump, but HE won't be riling them up anyone once he's dead.

They'll be doing that all on their own.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Yeah, between the literally incessant propaganda, and the conspiracy theories: they don't need a messiah. They'll just make jive up, which will inspire more violence and more conspiracies. I think we're near a breaking point though, you can only wind up a spring for so long before it snaps.

That's not a good thing. Snapping is bad.