Metroid

[Fero McPigletron]

I'm got the orange block destroying thing so I'm just running around getting all the equipment before getting to beat the last chozo guard (?).

I HATE doing the Shinespark to break those arrow blocks. The charge wears off too quickly. Stuck at one right now, ugh.

The EMMI are terrifying but they really get my heart pumping cuz of all the suspense. Glad there's only seven and that I'm done with them, whew.

I need more health upgrades over the increased missile count.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Am near the end of Dread!

I can do the first phase easy but flying version was taking too long. Finally reached the third phase and Raven Beak just tore his wings off. Have to figure out this pattern.

I'm missing two Health Bars (hard to get with Shinespark running, ugh) but I think I can handle him. I hope.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Finished! The last phase was almost the same as the first phase so it was do able.

Died during the escape. I was panicking. I didn't hold the laser down and was maybe, annoyingly 5 seconds away from my ship.

What a great game! It's my first Metroid and it's pretty awesome!

 

[Caldwin]

Glad you enjoyed it. It was one of the more unrelentingly hard Metroid games, but it was a lot of fun. You should try Super Metroid. You may want to reassign some of the buttons, but it's still one of the best Metroid games even today. Though I will say, after the smooth, silky butter controls of Dread, Super Metroid can be a bit...stiff. But it's still an awesome game, and it's included with the Nintendo Online subscription.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

I'll concentrate on continuing Sonic Frontier.

Can't wait for Ravenous!

 

[Videomaster21XX]

So the talk of Metroid stuff reminded me of something...

Remember when I said I got to the volt tower in Prime 4 and had to stop? Yeah so turns out I ended up forgetting about it for a long time.

I just picked it back up. I've just completed the snow area and got the ice chip installed. Back in the volt tower looking for things I can power up with the boost ball.

I know a lot of people don't care for them, but so far I'm really enjoying the NPCs. I've wanted this since Prime 2 when you find those defeated soldiers. (The one that had the log about not believing in 'Samus Claus'. I always thought: Wouldn't it be cool if we could actually interact with people?)

Biggest gripe is that it's weird they talk to you and Samus just...doesn't say anything. Even in Zelda you get the illusion of speech with your multiple choice options. You don't get that here. It's just off.

 

[Caldwin]

I typically want Samus to be a loner. Adding NPC's just kills the isolation that's usually core to what Metroid is.

That said, the only NPC I really couldn't stand was MacKenzie. And it bugged me that you had to keep returning to him in order to unlock what you've unlocked. Like, every single other Metroid game, if you pick something up, you can use it. You don't have to take it back to the main base to unlock it.

But mostly I just couldn't stand MacKenzie.

Still, I'm glad that you were able to pick it back up and start enjoying it again. It's always satisfying when you come back to a game later, break through a brick wall that made you quit before and proceed to make even more progress.

 

[Exatron]

I'm sad to say I never got around to playing the Wii Metroid games, either Prime 3 or Other M. I have both, just they hit at a time when I had very little time for gaming. Other M was set prior to Fusion, so it didn't bother me continuing on to Dread. However, I'd really like to play Prime 3 before going on to 4, regardless of whether the plot demands it or not. I just need to get my Wii set back up one of these days to do so.

 

[Caldwin]

I like Prime 3, though I wonder if maybe I'm in a minority. You really don't need to play Other M. Just...pretend like it doesn't exist. You'll be better off.

 

[Videomaster21XX]

Still, I'm glad that you were able to pick it back up and start enjoying it again. It's always satisfying when you come back to a game later, break through a brick wall that made you quit before and proceed to make even more progress.

Well it wasn't really hitting a problem in the game itself. More it was a weird software issue. I had the Switch 2 hooked up via my surround sound system, but I got the thing back in like 2007 or something. As such no matter how high or low I had the actual volume, I believe if something in the game/movie I was watching had a spike in sound. (Or it was just random. Honestly I never really saw a consistent factor to this issue) The surround system would just shut itself off.

Most systems I could just turn the Surround back on and the HDMI would kick back in and display on my TV.

NOT THE SWITCH 2. It apparently is a princess that if the surround cut off while IT was displaying. It would just then refuse to display using that HDMI port now. Even if I unplugged and re-plugged. I'd have to unplug the HDMI, then put it into an ENTIRLY DIFFERENT port for it to display again.

Of course this only worked till the system shut itself off again. In which the Switch 2 would play this game all over again. Yet THEN if I put it back to the port I had it in the first time before I had to switch it. NOW it'd work in that port again.

It was very weird, very frustrating, and in the end I waited till I got my Tax refund and just replaced my Surround system with a new one. It was that or plug it directly to the TV and us the TV speakers. Or just play in handheld. I wanted to play on my TV, so it got shelved for a bit as I fixed all this, and then life happened and I just sorta forgot about it for a while.

That said, the only NPC I really couldn't stand was MacKenzie. And it bugged me that you had to keep returning to him in order to unlock what you've unlocked. Like, every single other Metroid game, if you pick something up, you can use it. You don't have to take it back to the main base to unlock it.

But mostly I just couldn't stand MacKenzie.

Yeah you can be disappointed in me, but I like MacKenzie. I actually enjoy coming back to base to see him unlock my chip and put it in my blaster. (I also take this time to deposit green crystals and check the near by room where you need the blaster shots to progress)

I loved after coming back the first time you talk to him and he's like: "I've been busy! I managed to get this console to display your arm canon" -The Computer sparks and fizzles out for a second-

MacKenzie: ...That is a feature.

I actually laughed.

I typically want Samus to be a loner. Adding NPC's just kills the isolation that's usually core to what Metroid is.

This is the one thing where I'm pretty sure I'm just not going to be able to really understand what you mean by that. I mean I get the concept of what you are saying.

It's just that. This is not a thing that happens to me when I play video games. There is no sense of isolation. There is a sense of: "I'm sitting in a chair with a controller and my manipulating it causes the thing on the screen to move."

It's the same sensation if I'm playing MegaMan, Castlevania, Mario.... I just legit can not comprehend how one would get a sense of isolation.

 

[Videomaster21XX]

My stupid wired brain aside.

I actually think Metroid Prime 3 is the best in the series. Though a lot of that comes from how motion controls were implemented. I've played a bit of Prime 1 via the Trilogy collection on the Wii.

I really need to get the remastered version for the Switch.

Metroid Other M.

See the game has a lot of good. It's just the bad stuff is REALLY bad. I still think it's worth checking out though.

The bad is of course the stupid direction the story wanted to go, or to be more precise, the weird character direction for Samus and some... questionable choices.

Spoiler

You can not TO THIS DAY give me a good reason Samus had to be told to turn on the Varia suit. There is just no context where that makes sense, especially after you are IN the lava area and fought a boss. Why turn it off period? It's just extra armor. There is no point in having it off!

Ahem.

That and the pixel search parts suck, and there are a lot of people who can't really get the hang of the 'point the wii remote toward the screen to use missles'

To be blunt that mechanic sucks and I wish there was a better option.

However the controls for everything else were pretty good from what I recall. The area has the classic search for upgrades feel. Some of the extra combat/grapple moves were nice, the bosses are cool.

There is enough Metroid DNA in there that it is possible to have fun. The pixel searches can be negated by watching a youtube video beforehand so you can just get the answer of where/ what you need to look at.

The real deciding factors are going to be how much the 'point at the screen for missiles' thing bothers you, and if you care that much about the story.

 

[Sjogre]

The gameplay of Other M did enough right to be fun most of the time, with the things that went wrong at least usually going wrong in an interesting direction. Usually. The pixel hunts kinda don't really have an excuse since the Prime games did scanning gameplay right, so it had a working example to look at. The missiles were awkward and Concentration was half-baked, but overall the game did a good job of making you feel like a laser-spewing rocket Ferrari.

The story... Oi. I'm of the opinion that the worse sin a story can commit is squandering potential, and this story did basically nothing with any of the interesting ideas it brought up. I try not to be negative, but I got nothin'. This story needed a better writer to clean it up, or at least a strict editor to take three or four passes.

The Hell Run is a point where the gameplay was fun but the actual reason behind the moment was nonsensical. While I would have liked the challenge of actually fighting the boss without the varia suit, Adam saying to turn it on at the start of the fight highlighted that Samus could have used it the entire time. Likewise, the later high-gravity section was actually an interesting challenge... That Samus could have negated entirely with a press of a button.

I'll say that Other M is the Metroid game that I'd like to see get a remake the most because it so badly needs a rewrite and some of those gameplay ideas need a second pass. The Authorization mechanic was an interesting idea, but I don't think that it could both produce a satisfying progression of gameplay abilities and work as a story justification for not using everything at will. Not with the setup for Other M, anyway.

Overall, I'd say that Other M is worth playing because it did a lot different, but with the warning that some of what it did was fail.

 

[Videomaster21XX]

So finally finished Prime 4. 100% items, 100% green crystals, 96% scans. Honestly I got more scans than I thought.

So my thoughts?

Okay look we all know my brain works different. First off what will baffle all of you. This is like so SO much better than Dread.

Also I love the NPCs. All of them. I think having them is one of the best damn decisions for this game, and I know how everyone else feels about them.

I get why McKenzie talking to you on the radio while you are trying to explore would get annoying for others, but yeah it never bothered me. Not only do I feel like he hardly ever even does that, I'm usually playing the game with a podcast or "Smosh reads reddit stories" video playing in the background, so I hear the radio and then tune him out for the short time he speaks because I know what he's going to say. (then I'll pause the video if I get to a story moment in Metroid)

I liked finding Tokabi out in the wild and hearing his little stories. Though I'm going to be honest. I wasn't a fan of: "Go randomly drive around and hope you find him" When I got to that point, I just looked up a guide. I don't have time for that.

Duke was just kinda there, but I didn't hate him. Armstrong is great, and I love Vue-995. (The robot)

The best part of the NPCs for me, is THEY are the reason I actually felt any sort of 'isolation'. Them talking to each other, talking about wanting to go home. It made the fact they are all stranded on this planet in an unknown part of the universe really stick.

I'm not trying to be difficult when I say I don't really understand by what everyone else means when they say the Metroid games are supposed to feel isolated. Are you like entering a state where you really feel as if you are Samus or something? I just feel like I'm on my gaming chair in my room. Like I don't ever feel like the thing on the screen is me. Not sure that's even what you mean. It's probably something I'll just never be able to understand.

Mentioning how I don't have time to waste though, makes me have to say that I feel this game was kinda short? At the very least I feel the other Prime games went longer than this. Maybe it's just been too long since I played them.

Some of the bosses were challenging. Though it does lead me to one of my gripes. I don't like how we get all these upgrades and they just feel underutilized for the most part.

I agree with what has been said about the motorcycle, but things like the psychic bombs and stuff have abilities you rarely use. There was one room where I was supposed to hold the bomb button to create that floating orb so I could grab it and throw it into a thing to activate it, and I had to look up how to get that missile expansion because I forgot that was a thing you could do.

Heck you can do it with power bombs as well and basically need to do that ONCE to blow up a green rock in the desert so you can go scan a story statue.

When fighting that lava dragon, I kept getting it to collapse then it'd get back up because I never thought to use the core beam to fly down it's mouth to hit a core. I even knew I had that beam, my brain just never made that connection for some reason.

I could have done without chasing the creature on the lava for an energy tank.

Then on the final boss that part where he steals your energy tank. Never occurred to me to boost ball into him to knock it out of his grasp. I just knew I must be doing something wrong during that moment and looked it up after like four attempts to get through that fight.

The ending is... yeah not the best. Even I agree with that. I'm really hoping we get Prime 5 and at least part of that is going to get them. Or we just learn that she sent someone to go get them.

That's about it. I'm honestly surprised we didn't find Phazon somehow on this planet.

Also besides I think one creature that the log said was infused with a metroid we didn't actually GET metroids in this game.

I give the game a B+. It's a decent game, but yeah short and absolutely feels cobbled together from it's previous version.

 

[Caldwin]

I mean, yeah, you're entitled to your opinion. If you enjoyed Metroid Prime 4, I'm happy for you. I just think we really are on two completely different brain waves.

I'm not really a psychologist writing a thesis. All I can say is that I can't get that isolated feeling when there's someone yakking in my ear every ten minutes about where to go next.

Except for McKinsey, whom I unequivocally despise, I actually probably would have liked the other NPC's...in any other game that isn't Metroid. I particularly liked Armstrong.

But ever since the first game, Samus has always been the one bounty hunter you send into a situation because everyone else you've sent never came back. She works alone. She work by her own rules.

Also, one of the other complaints that I totally agree with...every other game (except Other M, which also sucked), you find an item, you can use that item. Here, you have to drag every single thing you find all the way back to the hub to have McKensie unlock it for you. It was annoying.

Now, I'm not sure if this is a hot take or not, but I do like the motorcycle. I like Link on a motorcycle. I like Samus on a motorcycle. I like Mario on a...kart...cycle...thing. I love motorcycles.

Unfortunately, it felt somewhat underutilized...mostly for driving in the desert area from one area to the next.

Now, this probably is a hot take, because I know a lot of people love the Prime series. Me...I like the Prime series. But I've played Metrois since the 8-bit NES game, and to me, Metroid will always be better in 2D.

 

[The Predaking]

I really need to go back and finish this game.

 

[Videomaster21XX]

I mean yeah we are, but if you saw that thread I have in the Mayhem area about my brain, I'm usually way different when it comes to stuff like this.

I mean most people here are praising Dread, and honestly I could forgive most of the small things I don't care for. (Which really I can only think of one, and that's it relies on mini bosses a bit TOO much.) If it wasn't for the biggest flaw, the stupid Emmi's. I just honestly can not fathom why people are okay with them.

In Fusion the SA-X worked because when it found you, it just attacked you. It was terrifying and it could tear through your health fast, but you had that hope you could escape or hide. It WAS possible to get away.

The Emmi, the moment I have to face them the fact that if they grab me I have a stupid quick time button press I need to do to get away, with absolute RANDOM timing and if you fail you're just dead is in the absolute forefront of my mind. And to make it worse you get TWO chances to counter it max. If it gets you a third time, you're done. Game Over.

That's so obviously bad and lazy programing and design. From my perspective everyone should be going: "Yep that sucks any tension or 'dread' from the encounter and is just annoying. We should stand together and tell Nintendo not to do this again" And instead everyone is praising it, and I just don't understand how they are ignoring how BAD it is.

I totally get why you hate McKenzie and his radio chatter, and having to go see him and stuff. They are things that don't bother me, but I know why they don't bother me, yet also WHY they bother you.

It's the fact that I just can't wrap my head around why the hell you'd actually ENJOY the Emmi's that gets to me. I want to understand, but I just can't.

Going back to the isolated thing.

See I don't know what makes Metroid different from say, Castlevania or MegaMan. Do you get the same feeling playing those? Because it's usually just MegaMan, or just the person you are playing in Castlevania. Hell in Castlevania something like SOTN is obviously very close to Metroid. The whole reason it's called Metroidvania. They are similar enough that it would suggest that you should feel the same sense of isolation in SOTN and be upset you can talk to the librarian because it breaks the isolated feeling.

As I've said for me. They just feel the same. Like I'm playing a game. To go further, it's not different when I play Survival Horror games either. I don't get a sense of horror because the character I'm playing is in a spooky area.

The only time I have a reaction like that is if there is something like a shark in the water and I have to go in it, and that's because I'm deeply terrified of underwater creatures that can kill me.

(I'm so not looking forward to the Ocarina of Time Lake Lab... if it's just a picture of the shark again, I think I'll be fine, but I'm so damn terrified it'll be animated this time, but this is the wrong thread)

But ever since the first game, Samus has always been the one bounty hunter you send into a situation because everyone else you've sent never came back. She works alone. She work by her own rules.

Well yes, but they didn't SEND her here. This was a situation that dragged other people along by chance. I obviously enjoyed finding and interacting with these people. I also loved meeting the Bounty Hunters in Prime 3 at the start and working with them. I wish you could have freed them and just had them pop in to help from time to time, rather than what did happen. Again, to me it's not much different from Castlevania. Same basic stick. It works there, so it works here for me.

Also, one of the other complaints that I totally agree with...every other game (except Other M, which also sucked), you find an item, you can use that item. Here, you have to drag every single thing you find all the way back to the hub to have McKensie unlock it for you. It was annoying.

Not going to defend how it worked in Other M, but here, well I can't remember if he fixes your missiles at start, but otherwise he gives you your new beam weapons, and gets the teleport things for the mech working. That's it. Like four or five items.

You get the (And I know it's called Psychic in this, but I'm just going to call them their classic names) Space Jump, you can just USE the Space Jump. You get the Spider Ball you can just USE the spider ball. Same with the Power bombs, any expansion stuff. Heck McKenzie only makes the beam weapon initially work. You find the upgrades to them and they just work right there.

Now obviously the message you are giving me is you'd rather you didn't have to go back to him period, but it's not for every little thing.

I mentioned in my previous post that I agree with what has been said about the Motorcycle, and I guess I should specify I mean in this thread. Most here, like you, enjoy the motorcycle. I do too and I also feel it needed more to do with it. I don't think I mind the desert and much as other people. I mean I went around and purposely grabbed every green crystal just because.

I can also see how only liking the Prime series can be a factor. I love Metroid both ways, and I'm rather good at both.

The only Prime game I had a major problem with was Echoes. Echoes is at the bottom of the list for me and that's only because it has the most FRUSTRATING boss in the history of Metroid.

If I never have to fight the Spider Guardian again, I'll be happy.

 

[Caldwin]

Castlevania is one of thise odd ones. It has complete isolation games (I, IV, SotN) and you have some that have one or several friends (III, Aria/Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin). For me, it works because it was established back in the 8bit days that sometimes you're alone, sometimes you have friends...but it's always going to be horror themed and oppressive.

Castlevania is Horror. Horror can work whether you're alone or in a group.

Metroid is isolation. Isolation gets ruined when you add people.

 

[Shadewing]

I never got a feeling of "this series is all about isolation" from Metroid. Yes, you're all alone in it, but the same can be said for almost any single player game from 8-bit era.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

I've never played any other Metroid game until Dread and while I shake in my boots whenever I have to enter an Emmi door, I am still thrilled by the experience.

Which is fascinating because I'm terrified of a robot and not some organic, supernatural, alien horror monster thingy. It's interestingly cool. A killer robot.

 

[Videomaster21XX]

I've never played any other Metroid game until Dread and while I shake in my boots whenever I have to enter an Emmi door, I am still thrilled by the experience.

Which is fascinating because I'm terrified of a robot and not some organic, supernatural, alien horror monster thingy. It's interestingly cool. A killer robot.

I believe that's the general take most people walk away with when they play the game.

I don't think most people really think much beyond "Time to go in here" or something along those lines when playing the game.

The issue with me is when I get to that door MY brain immediately, without prompting, goes: "This is the Emmi door where we'll have to do an annoying 'keep away' thing because if it touches us you are basically dead unless you get really lucky with the random timing of the counter, which we usually don't. Thus we'll likely have to do this a few times to get through it, and don't forget this is one of SEVERAL times we'll have to do this, it getting more annoying each time"

And yeah. I end up annoyed and exasperated.

Pretty sure most other people's brains don't do that.

When Caldwin here says the Metroid games are about isolation, my brain is basically (Again immediately with out prompt): But we are NOT isolated. We are on a chair in our room. Our roommates are just upstairs, we know there are neighbors all around us. We are not Samus, we are NOT on the screen, we don't understand why we would feel that isolation when these conditions could be applied to literally dozens upon dozens of games. The same conditions are can be met with several 8 and 16 bit side scrollers, several first person and third person games generally have just you trying to stop a threat. Why do those resonate differently?

Once this thought process is in place, it's hard to break away from it. I'd need information that would directly counter something in the thought process that lead me to my answer/opinion in the first place.