A Long Time Ago In a Galaxy Far, Far Away.... - Star Wars General Discussion

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
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I find Sequel hate very... misguided I guess? I donno.

IV A New Hope
V Empire Strikes Back
Rogue One
VI Return of the Jedi
VII The Force Awakens
I The Phantom Menace
IX The Rise of Skywalker
III Revenge of the Sith
M&G
VII The Last Jedi
Solo
The Holiday Special
That time my friend and I played with our toys when we were eight
II Attack of the Clones
 

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
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I swear Attack of the Clones would be higher on these lists if they'd release an extended cut.
 

The Predaking

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I find Sequel hate very... misguided I guess? I donno.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't hate the films, I am just very disappointed to the point where I try to forget that they exist. Basically, they released Episode 7 without a plan for 8 and 9, and just let the individual directors have at it. So you have Episode 7 from the master of setup with no idea on how to pay it off, Episode 8 with a guy that wants to shatter audience expectations, and Episode 9 with them frantically scrambling to make it all work.

I just think that it could have been so much better, and now we have lost the chance.
 
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Donocropolis

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Yeah, I've always wondered if somehow the higher ups decided that the original trilogy succeeded BECAUSE of it being written/re-written as it went along and decided that they had to do the same thing? That's a very strange belief to arrive at, but I can't understand how there could be any other explanation for knowing you're making a trilogy and making absolutely no effort to have even the barest framework of a plan for how the three films will go.
 

The Predaking

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There is a youtuber that goes around to all the various Ollies stores and looks at the unsold mountains of Disney Star Wars toys there.
 

Donocropolis

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I know that this has all been discussed a million times in a million places, but it still so frustrating. There were some interesting ideas in the Sequel Trilogy worth exploring. An escaped Stormtrooper as one of our heroes. The villain who's the son of the original trilogy protagonists, extremely powerful with the Force but equally UNdeveloped emotionally and socially (a toddler with a gun). The chance to explore what using the Force looks like in a galaxy where both the Jedi and the Sith are essentially extinct. But then they failed to do anything interesting with any of those.

A lot of missteps right off the bat, too. The New Order and the Resistance should never have been a thing. I know that they didn't want to lean too heavily on old Expanded Universe stuff, but the general idea of the Imperial Remnant as a reduced but still very much present threat to the fledgling New Republic should have stuck around. I'm sure that they were afraid of confusing people who wouldn't understand why the Empire was still around after being defeated in the Return of the Jedi, but the Mandalorian did a decent enough job incorporating it so it can be done.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
asically, they released Episode 7 without a plan for 8 and 9, and just let the individual directors have at it. So you have Episode 7 from the master of setup with no idea on how to pay it off, Episode 8 with a guy that wants to shatter audience expectations, and Episode 9 with them frantically scrambling to make it all work.

I just think that it could have been so much better, and now we have lost the chance.
I get all of that, and I don't disagree that they did a massive disservice by not working out a three movie plan and letting two conflicting visions of the franchise ping pong back and forth.
I also get the frustration with not having the original trio reunite on screen, but I feel like that's partially a result of the lack of planning.

My issues with the ST hate boil down to a few things.
First, I was there was TFA was released. Saw it in theatres with a few different friend groups and my family and the experience among everyone I talked to- both IRL and online at the time- was positive. People were EXCITED for Star Wars again and left TFA excited to see where things could go. So much eager fan speculation about Rey, Snoke, Luke... it all stemmed from the positive reception that movie got. And for good reason. It's a good movie.

And then I saw a certain class of internet YT grifters critics decide it was Bad Actually. I watched a movie everyone seemed to agree with was a good time turn into a vector for toxic fan discourse because a bunch of faux intellectual who thought pontificating on a movie series about space wizards was Important Public Discourse decided pushing back against a broadly enjoyed movie made them the Smartest And Bestest Boys.
Then TLJ comes out and, due to that lack of any planning, it's allowed to actively reject and ridicule the fan speculation that seemed to make initial TFA discourse so fun and suddenly the entire ST was marred in toix bulls**t that Star Wars as a whole still hasn't pulled itself out from. TRoS was a noble attempt to salvage things, but between trying to speed run an alternate Ep VIII as well as be Ep IX on a time crunch, it just had too much it had to do. Still, like I said above, I like its big swings. Rey being a Palpatine is 100% fine by me, and the idea of people realizing they're stronger then an authoritarian regime if they stand as one is a good message. It's a flawed movie, but I do respect its ideas and what it was able to do with the crazy restraints placed on it.

Also, the "DECANONIZE THE SEQUELS"/"KATHLEEN KENNEDY KILLED MY DOG"/"REY IS A MARRY SUE" discourse is so dumb and childish that I roll my eyes any time we start approaching that. Of course the ST is flawed, and ofc you can criticize it legitimately, but the well has been poisoned to such an extent that I just have very little desire to engage with it. That's the thing about toxic fandom. It makes having good faith discussion nearly impossible.

In relation to the PT? I think the ST, flaws and all, laps it. While the ST is made up of three movies that are the result of poor planning, competing visions, and too much focus group corproate-driven decisions, they are on the whole very competantly made movies. Meanwhile of the PT, only Ep I actually feels like a proper movie. II and III are so reliant on green screen tech that they feel like actors moving through PS3-era games. The writing is stilted and embarassingly bad. And the direction is uninspired and dull. Attack of the Clones might have the most incomprehensible plot I've ever seen in a big budget tentpole blockbuster.

My final thoughts on the ST are that the fandom as a whole and the franchise will be just fine if Disney just goes "hey, like it or not, they're done, we're moving on." The PT was universally ridiculed until the zoomers who grew up with it got old enough to share their opinions en masse and change that discussion, and the same thing will happen to the ST in 10-15 years. Additionally, new content if done well can make up for a lot. Star Wars needs to leave PT and OT-era stories behind. Commit to stuff that takes place after Ep IX. Make the Rey movie. Maybe a show about what the Galaxy is like now that both the New Republic and First Order are gone. Move forward, and a lot of ills will be cured.
 

The Predaking

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The PT was universally ridiculed until the zoomers who grew up with it got old enough to share their opinions en masse and change that discussion, and the same thing will happen to the ST in 10-15 years.

You see, I disagree with that. The Prequels got a lot of hate at the time, but it was unjustified and mainly aimed at the kid focused parts and some of the dialog. The sequels, they got honest reviews. I know that you enjoyed them, and there is nothing wrong with that, but they aren't as good as the Prequels. People just didn't like them after TFA. As mentioned, the Sequels had soured the franchise to the point that they needed the creator of Clone Wars/Rebels to team up with the creator of the MCU to save Star Wars.
 

ZacWilliam1

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The Prequels are neat looking, have some good ideas, and nostalgia. Phantom Menace is kinda fun, although I'm not sure how much of that fun is my nostalgia. On the whole though I think they're all not great films. Watchable. Ok. But not great.

The sequels are better. The Force Awakens is a really good fun adventure and a strong return to a classic original trilogy feel after the Prequel's "something different." Came out of it loving the Characters and eager for more.

I think there are two responses to Last Jedi: those upset that it purposely faced and broke all the cliches of Star Wars and those who love that it did. I'm the later. It's Top 3 Best Star Wars imo, looking at every established trope, taking each in a direction counter to expectations and sending the story in smart and intriguing new directions.

Rise of Skywalker is by far the weakest of the sequels, largely because it tries to do way too much. I've said a bunch of times if you cut the film in half into "Search for the Sith" and "The Final Battle" gave everything more room to happen, gave Rose something to do, gave Finn a little more, gave us a few minutes of down time character interaction... you could have two really pretty strong improved movies. (I also think Kylo should have lived, and escapes as a wanted Ronan for future stories, but that's neither here nor there.)

-ZacWilliam, If you ask me what Star Wars I want to watch any random day, it's going to be original trillogy first, Sequels a decent amount, Prequels on the rarest of days.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
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Don't get me wrong, I have nostalgia for the PT and I do watch them now and then... but they're not good. And the idea that they were unfairly criticized while the ST's criticisms were all valid strikes me as nuts. Both trilogies had their bad faith and good faith criticism, but if you're asking me which set of three are better movies? It's the ST. The cinematography alone in TLJ bodies George Lucas' flat "shot/reverse shot" directing in the PT.
 

The Predaking

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I think there are two responses to Last Jedi: those upset that it purposely faced and broke all the cliches of Star Wars and those who love that it did. I'm the later. It's Top 3 Best Star Wars imo, looking at every established trope, taking each in a direction counter to expectations and sending the story in smart and intriguing new directions.

Please don't take offense, but I don't know what to say after reading that because you are literally saying that Last Jedi is up there with A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back or whatever you feel is the top two in the franchise. I just can't fathom that. I know it's personal taste, but I am just baffled by this concept. Once again, no offense meant, but I just literally cannot see why someone would say that without trying to troll people online.
 
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