Even as a Titan, he'd be a "wait and see if it gets marked down in a few months" purchase for me.
I never said likely, just that I'd like to see it. I'd point out I was responding to a list that included a Titan Spanner. Likelihood was never part of it...
At the end of the day, I just want a good Monstructor. If SS86 Devastator is a success and Hasbro wants to use him as a template, that would be great! But if, since he is a relatively obscure character for what he would cost, they'd prefer the HasLab route to mitigate risk, I'd be fine with that.
At the end of the day, I just want a good Monstructor. If SS86 Devastator is a success and Hasbro wants to use him as a template, that would be great! But if, since he is a relatively obscure character for what he would cost, they'd prefer the HasLab route to mitigate risk, I'd be fine with that.
With all the Pretender updates we've seen from this Hasbro team so far, proper shells that actually house a separate robot figure inside them seem to be the one gimmick that this current Hasbro team seems very reluctant to do. The closest we've ever come in recent years were the Prime Masters from POTP, and people weren't too thrilled about those. Judging from the attitudes of the likes of Mark, Evan, and BMac in the livestreams whenever they reveal a new Pretender-based figure that either integrates the shell's look into the figure's robot mode or just outright avoids the shell altogether, it seems like they themselves aren't fans of the original Pretender shell gimmick at all and prefer to make the shell-less versions that we've been getting as of late, thinking that we fans mostly all share that opinion with them.
You're ascribing too much intent when the simpler explanation is that making pretenders with shells means basically making two figures that they'd be pressured by retailers to sell for the price of one. It'd be a budgeting nightmare when they have many other easier to design, more marketable characters.
I still prefer a tiny Monstructor.
For me the appeal of Monstructor is that he shouldn't exist and yet he does. The brand was being completely overtaken by Micromasters. And I do love Micromaster bases and transports and such, but at that scale the bots were extremely limited in what they could be anymore. Unfold the legs. Transformation done. Wow.
Yet at that time, at that extremely limited scale, Hasbro cranked out one last combiner that's somehow entirely fine (until the GPS hits). Somehow his proportions are on the better end of G1 combiners, and they actually made sure all the combiner kibble has somewhere to go when not in use. He should be adequate at best yet he's outright kinda cool. He's the embodiment of a declining brand saying "I've still got it. Hear me roar."
In a tiny helium voice.
For me the appeal of Monstructor is that he shouldn't exist and yet he does. The brand was being completely overtaken by Micromasters. And I do love Micromaster bases and transports and such, but at that scale the bots were extremely limited in what they could be anymore. Unfold the legs. Transformation done. Wow.
Yet at that time, at that extremely limited scale, Hasbro cranked out one last combiner that's somehow entirely fine (until the GPS hits). Somehow his proportions are on the better end of G1 combiners, and they actually made sure all the combiner kibble has somewhere to go when not in use. He should be adequate at best yet he's outright kinda cool. He's the embodiment of a declining brand saying "I've still got it. Hear me roar."
In a tiny helium voice.
This is pretty much the unfortunate truth about Pretenders. I hate it, but at the same time Legacy Bomb-Burst and Iguanas are really well done. Skullgrin less so. I'll accept them trying to blend elements together, and would really really like them to at least give me a core of deluxe Submarudaer to have some modern version of the Masterforce trio. The Autobots are mostly just armored humans so I get that won't work well with them, but I still again was to get Landmine, Cloudburst, and Waverider to go with Metalhawk. ...and Slapdash, Joyride, and Getaway... And Siren and Hosehead... (And I know some will agrue Minvera, but at least she has /something/) Come on, We have nearly all the Masterforce Decepticons in some form, but hardly any of the Autobots.
SDCC exclusives are up at Pulse for Premium members. Orion & Megatron 2 pack:
www.hasbropulse.com
Transformers Fractured Friendship Orion Pax & Megatron Set - Hasbro Pulse
The Transformers Fractured Friendship set contains the Orion Pax and Megatron action figures and accessories.
www.hasbropulse.com
All that rhetoric to the effect of "they're not fans of it and the way they talk about it, it's like they think others aren't either" ignores that it's likely nothing to do with being enamored or not with the original concept: "Pretenders with opening shells" is a pricey mess to actually execute (financially) and sell.
It's like bundling everyone with a trailer. So much of the budget is immediately used up making plastic shells big enough to house the inner robot; the inner robot will need to be simplified to hell and back both as a result of having a pittance of a budget left over and as a result of needing to fit inside the shell. On top of all of that, what do you do with these shell molds? They're not going to have the same tooling versatility as any other tooling (Metalhawk and Bludgeon make use of existing tooling, and just look at how many ways they've reused the Skullgrin base). There's a reason the one time it's been done in the last 20 years has been with tiny shells with all of 2 POA and similarly tiny basically one-step inner robots. So, however fondly I myself remember the originals (I wish we'd have gotten a Finback, damn it), if I were on the design team I'd find another way to bring them into the line too.
I'm fine with the recent attempts at blending the shell and the inner robot look, although perhaps we could lean a bit further on the shell look since the inner robots tend to be blocky and generic. (Also, if the baseline had been Deluxes, Bomb-Burst could have been even better, and Ignaus could have had more ways to not look like he's doing an exercise roller workout with a helmet on).
I do wish they came with alternate inner-robot heads, though; saw a digibash of Skullgrin that looked great.
It's like bundling everyone with a trailer. So much of the budget is immediately used up making plastic shells big enough to house the inner robot; the inner robot will need to be simplified to hell and back both as a result of having a pittance of a budget left over and as a result of needing to fit inside the shell. On top of all of that, what do you do with these shell molds? They're not going to have the same tooling versatility as any other tooling (Metalhawk and Bludgeon make use of existing tooling, and just look at how many ways they've reused the Skullgrin base). There's a reason the one time it's been done in the last 20 years has been with tiny shells with all of 2 POA and similarly tiny basically one-step inner robots. So, however fondly I myself remember the originals (I wish we'd have gotten a Finback, damn it), if I were on the design team I'd find another way to bring them into the line too.
I'm fine with the recent attempts at blending the shell and the inner robot look, although perhaps we could lean a bit further on the shell look since the inner robots tend to be blocky and generic. (Also, if the baseline had been Deluxes, Bomb-Burst could have been even better, and Ignaus could have had more ways to not look like he's doing an exercise roller workout with a helmet on).
I do wish they came with alternate inner-robot heads, though; saw a digibash of Skullgrin that looked great.
Last edited:
This was discussed elsewhere (maybe earlier in this thread?), but the decision to move Skullgrin to Deluxe was not a great one. Distribution woes aside, Iguanus was a decent figure, and Bomb Burst is likewise full of personality. But then Skullgrin comes out in Deluxe and breaks the cohesiveness of the set, and Submarauder doesn't even seem to be on the radar, let alone Bugly or Finback, and that's just the Decepticons.
I'm fine with the Pretenders blending the shell with the robot mode, and I was perfectly fine with them at Core class, but I wasn't invested enough in the characters to buy Skullgrin at Deluxe. My exposure to the characters is almost entirely from Masterforce, so they make sense to me at a smaller scale. I do wish we got better representation of the rest of the Masterforce cast, but I'm also not willing to buy the teams out of scale with each other.
I'm fine with the Pretenders blending the shell with the robot mode, and I was perfectly fine with them at Core class, but I wasn't invested enough in the characters to buy Skullgrin at Deluxe. My exposure to the characters is almost entirely from Masterforce, so they make sense to me at a smaller scale. I do wish we got better representation of the rest of the Masterforce cast, but I'm also not willing to buy the teams out of scale with each other.
Clearly Submaruader needs to be Voyager class, so that they're all evenly out of scale with each other
In general, I'm perfectly happy with the current approach to pretenders, with the caveat that I want them to be handled with the same care in terms of scale as the rest of the line. As far as I can remember seeing in any fiction I can think of, the main '88 pretenders were all around the same size, just like the toys. Having Skullgrin tower over Bomb-Burst and Iguanus is very disappointing. I can kinda get Bludgeon, and possibly the other '89 pretenders, being a bit bigger just due to their prominence (Bludgeon, mainly), but otherwise I'd like to see them at least comparable, especially in groupings that commonly appear together. Deluxe is the sweet spot for me personally.
I guess I feel that Monstructor is a little bit different than most other pretenders. Most of them have a humanoid shell that's more memorable than their humanoid robot mode. The only exceptions I can think of are the pretender beasts (whose shells are the same animals as the robots' alt modes) and the pretender vehicles (whose shells are basically vehicles to ride around in). The beasts' shells are largely redundant, the vehicles' are basically accessories or could work as alt modes, and the rest probably work best the way they've been doing it, with the shells essentially becoming the robot mode.
The pretender monsters don't really fit any of those groupings. Their shells aren't humanoid, so really don't work as replacements for their robot modes. And while their alt modes and shells are all monsters, they aren't common for each bot like the beasts, and they're mostly very different color schemes. I think it would be hard to integrate their shells into the robots as successfully as most other modern pretenders have accomplished. Not impossible, but for example, I would prefer Monstructor keep his gold chest, rather then turn red due to using Slog's shell for his alt mode. I, for one, also found both their shells and alt modes fun and memorable. I could still be fully satisfied without the shells, but IF they were to be done as a HasLab due to being deemed infeasible as mainline releases, they're a case where I could see the shells adding to the overall package.
I guess I feel that Monstructor is a little bit different than most other pretenders. Most of them have a humanoid shell that's more memorable than their humanoid robot mode. The only exceptions I can think of are the pretender beasts (whose shells are the same animals as the robots' alt modes) and the pretender vehicles (whose shells are basically vehicles to ride around in). The beasts' shells are largely redundant, the vehicles' are basically accessories or could work as alt modes, and the rest probably work best the way they've been doing it, with the shells essentially becoming the robot mode.
The pretender monsters don't really fit any of those groupings. Their shells aren't humanoid, so really don't work as replacements for their robot modes. And while their alt modes and shells are all monsters, they aren't common for each bot like the beasts, and they're mostly very different color schemes. I think it would be hard to integrate their shells into the robots as successfully as most other modern pretenders have accomplished. Not impossible, but for example, I would prefer Monstructor keep his gold chest, rather then turn red due to using Slog's shell for his alt mode. I, for one, also found both their shells and alt modes fun and memorable. I could still be fully satisfied without the shells, but IF they were to be done as a HasLab due to being deemed infeasible as mainline releases, they're a case where I could see the shells adding to the overall package.
I feel it should be noted that both Skullgrin and Bomb-Burst were late-addition replacements for what were originally going to be the modular gimmick toys of the Legacy Year 1 line, the Energon Monsters. Notice how Legacy Year 1 is the only line from Siege to now to not have its own modular gimmick toys:
- Siege: Weaponizers
- Earthrise: Modulators (plus Fasttrack being a Weaponizer-styled figure)
- Kingdom: Fossilizers (plus Slammer being a Weaponizer-styled figure)
- Legacy Year 1: N/A
- Legacy Evolution: Junkions
- Legacy United: Armorizers
It's the people crying conspiracy when Velocitron Scourge was released.
"They made him the wrong colours on purpose to sell him again!"
No, they didn't paint the translucent pink bits on the robot mode silver because the silver paint budget was used up by the trailer. That's all.
Fans tend to build elaborate mind palace scenarios to justify certain things.
"They aren't a fan of this thing, here's my psychological evaluation of this fan site interview."
No man, it's not that deep. It's just budgetary.
No, I think the issue is the design team likely doesn't know what things will look like in packaging. If they think Scourge is being sold in the at the time typical leader class packaging, in Robot mode; with a window... Well... He's gonna look almost exactly like Legacy Optimus Prime.
Here is a custom I found next to Legacy Prime, Imagine these two showing up on the shelf at the same time, in open boxes like Kingdom got:
Two mostly grey and black trucks of the same exact mold. Making Nemesis Scourge, means that if we assume that at the time of design they have no idea that the leader class boxes were going to be changed to closed boxes, makes sense to make Scourge look more visable distinct and not like literally the same toy sold to you twice.
At the time the typical Leader class packaging also had no window. Legacy was the first to have closed boxes for Leaders. The Velocitron stuff showed up partway through Legacy (so they were likely aware of what the main line packaging would be), with windowless Leaders as well.
It was entirely speculation on my part but I thought Core Pretenders were a possible opportunity for making the whole package in parts, because at the same time, 'Energon Monster' popped up in the solicitations and I and others thought there might be a change for a larger non-transforming shell in the Deluxe range that could be advertised to fit or eat smaller figures, but older fans would immediately repurpose. But then that apparently evolved into Modulators/Weaponizers/Fossilizers, and the trend of 'Merge the shell with the robot mode' that Thunderwing and Bludgeon largely established kicked off fully.
I still hold out hope for a set of mini-shells for the DinoForce one way or another, mainly because I loved the Pretender Beasts and having that concept extended into Cyborg dinos with robot dino combiners inside would be great. I do think it was a good move to make the shells the default alt modes for that team, their original toys outside the shells didn't look like much.
I still hold out hope for a set of mini-shells for the DinoForce one way or another, mainly because I loved the Pretender Beasts and having that concept extended into Cyborg dinos with robot dino combiners inside would be great. I do think it was a good move to make the shells the default alt modes for that team, their original toys outside the shells didn't look like much.
There's no source on it, but the TF Wiki entry for Legacy Scourge claims that Mark Maher had to allocate the paint budget to the trailer, meaning they couldn't paint the translucent pink parts of his shoulders.No, I think the issue is the design team likely doesn't know what things will look like in packaging. If they think Scourge is being sold in the at the time typical leader class packaging, in Robot mode; with a window... Well... He's gonna look almost exactly like Legacy Optimus Prime.
Here is a custom I found next to Legacy Prime, Imagine these two showing up on the shelf at the same time, in open boxes like Kingdom got:
Two mostly grey and black trucks of the same exact mold. Making Nemesis Scourge, means that if we assume that at the time of design they have no idea that the leader class boxes were going to be changed to closed boxes, makes sense to make Scourge look more visable distinct and not like literally the same toy sold to you twice.
Scourge (RID) - Transformers Wiki
There is a source on Sam Smith claiming that the chest is primarily black instead of grey to better match the truck mode.
Sam Smith - Hasbro Design ⚓️ on Instagram: "SPEEDIA 500 VELOCITRON RID SCOURGE - Robot Mode Thrilled to finally be able to share the RID 2000 Universe Scourge that I have the opportunity to redeco late last year. This figure was a blast to work on,
720 likes, 109 comments - king_samlock on June 23, 2022: "SPEEDIA 500 VELOCITRON RID SCOURGE - Robot Mode Thrilled to finally be able to share the RID 2000 Universe Scourge that I have the opportunity to redeco late last year. This figure was a blast to work on, and I had so much fun helping...
www.instagram.com
So it appears as if Scourge's deco choices in Legacy were down to artistic licence and budgets.
And that's fine. I just wanted to use it as a case to illustrate where fans can work themselves into thinking a conspiracy exists were there is none.
I'd make the Pretender shells the next modular gimmick set. Make them Deluxe or Voyager sized, able to form the shell and an alt mode on their own, and combine with another figure as armor. Maybe make the inner robots as separate Core-sized generics, so you could buy one or the other and get a complete figure, or buy both and get the complete set. Of course, with Core-class going away, that's not so feasible anymore....
That sounded agreeable, even familiar, so I looked around and... huh. Found this post of mine in another, older thread. Except with Micros and not Core (so even smaller), and reliant on R.E.D. which also seems done.
I had forgotten about the Energon Monster switcheroo, and having the open slot in Deluxe does somewhat explain the why of it, but I will still maintain that filling that slot with Skullgrin was a misstep. Having the Pretenders planned out at the Core size should have happened during the design phase of Iguanus, and I feel like this design team is usually more savvy than that.
But, as has already been mentioned, budgetary concerns tend to be the overriding concern in this business, and we as fans on the outside will never be fully in the know about what kind of compromises and cuts have to be made.