Star Trek: The Original Series and The Next Generation
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And look where that got him.
The simple fact of the matter is that the Enterprise needed to destroy the CE. If they didn't then they would be responsible for everyone else it would kill afterwards and all the worlds it would strip mine. This creature served no purpose other than galactic destruction as it required to do so to continue to exist.
This is how you handle a killing machine:
It didn’t matter that all the creature needed was salt. It killed Kirk’s crew members, and that crossed the line.
It didn’t matter she was a hottie tecate. It didn’t matter it even told Kirk (ie. when it was disguised as McCoy) that all it was trying to do was survive:
(cued to 2:08)
Kirk told him it did not matter because it had already killed four of his crew members.
It didn’t matter that all the creature needed was salt. It killed Kirk’s crew members, and that crossed the line.
It didn’t matter she was a hottie tecate. It didn’t matter it even told Kirk (ie. when it was disguised as McCoy) that all it was trying to do was survive:
(cued to 2:08)
Kirk told him it did not matter because it had already killed four of his crew members.
I don't even know what the purpose of this argument is anymore. You both understand why it was written that way now, we understand what the two of you are saying, the thing we disagree about isn't about the show anymore.
TNG is what settled the series into being the whole phenomenon that it is now, and was also the show I grew up on. It's the most definitively Trek Trek to me, the one Roddenberry had the most direct control over creating, the one that really set the world of Star Trek apart from all the other sci-fi shows out there. It's also somehow more cringe inducing than the original and definitely less fun to watch. I also kinda maybe question the media literacy of anyone who would seriously argue that Deep Space Nine isn't at least the best-written series on the whole.
But mostly you said "every Starfleet captain since [Kirk]" and apparently meant Picard and maybe Janeway I guess? And you're not going to get out of that with a smoke bomb. TOS and TNG are the only shows you're interested in talking about and probably the only ones you've seen, which makes arguing the merits of anything else with you kiiiiinda beyond pointless?
Naw, if TOS hadn't made enough impact for the movies and TNG to exist, it'd just be one of those weird old shows like Lost in Space and Battlestar Galactica. I suppose we would have all been Doctor Who fans, yuck.
TNG is what settled the series into being the whole phenomenon that it is now, and was also the show I grew up on. It's the most definitively Trek Trek to me, the one Roddenberry had the most direct control over creating, the one that really set the world of Star Trek apart from all the other sci-fi shows out there. It's also somehow more cringe inducing than the original and definitely less fun to watch. I also kinda maybe question the media literacy of anyone who would seriously argue that Deep Space Nine isn't at least the best-written series on the whole.
But mostly you said "every Starfleet captain since [Kirk]" and apparently meant Picard and maybe Janeway I guess? And you're not going to get out of that with a smoke bomb. TOS and TNG are the only shows you're interested in talking about and probably the only ones you've seen, which makes arguing the merits of anything else with you kiiiiinda beyond pointless?
No, he's very much only your god, and buddy, you need to go to church, the man was a sexist, self-aggrandizing twit whose worldbuilding acumen did not extend to the most basic principles of character writing but he also created and accomplished some amazing and deeply culturally important things that deserve more insight than your superficial fanboyism.
I think Uhura, Yeoman Rand, Dr. Pulaski, Tasha Yar, Beverly Crusher, Marina Sirtis, Janeway etc. would disagree. They all owe Roddenberry their jobs and paychecks, their very livelihoods.
Any ... anybody wanna tell him, I don't think I can
Denise Crosby has been lining her pockets with Star Trek money by inserting herself into conventions and documentaries. That’s how she makes a living, thanks to Roddenberry.
Dude that's how every Star Trek actor makes a living, they were typecast for life. Denise Crosby quit the show because she didn't have anything to do but stand hot and look boobs and you used her as an example of Gene Roddenberry not being sexist. What the actual ******* ****
Might I remind you that Denis Crosby was cast as Head of Security over Worf. If you think that’s sexist, I can’t help you.
How come neither of these two ever got any TOS episodes where they were the main star of the story, hmm?
It was always either Kirk, Spock, McCoy, one time for Scotty, one time for Chekhov, or some guest star in the lead.
And the one time Nurse Chapel was at the focus of an episode, Kirk and Spock were still the more prominent stars.
Heck, even Sulu never got to be the main star of an episode's story.
William Shatner had a big ego. What he wanted and said was what made it to the screen. Shatner had control of the set. He had Roddenberry’s ear, and he used that to maximize his screen time.
William Shatner would never allow a scene like this to happen with him as Captain:
The writers would be fired.
William Shatner would never allow a scene like this to happen with him as Captain:
The writers would be fired.
Uh-huh, compare her episodes and development to Worf after he took her place and we'll talk. Meanwhile the other ladies in the main cast are the doctor and the psychiatrist. Marina Sirtis would have had to wear that ridiculous bodysuit through the whole series if she hadn't taken advantage of Jellicoe putting Troi in uniform to argue that she should get to keep it for continuity, and Sirtis and McFadden have both talked about the limitations of their roles on camera and the dismissal of their input behind the scenes.
In one interview, Sirtis even noted how limited she felt in regards to Troi's lack of technical knowledge. She pointed out that, in many of her scenes, Troi knew nothing when it came to how Starfleet technology worked, and at one point, when Jonathan Frakes was directing an episode, Sirtis confronted him directly about this issue with the following exchange:
Sirtis: "Did I not go to Starfleet Academy?"
Frakes: "You did, yes."
Sirtis: "Then, where was I during all those technical classes?"
Frakes (half-jokingly): "You were having your legs waxed."
It eventually got to where, because of how Troi went undercover disguised as a Romulan in episode, she became the expert on how Romulan tech worked, but which Sirtis still felt was incredibly flimsy reasoning since said episode did not really have Troi use Romulan tech that much.
Sirtis: "Did I not go to Starfleet Academy?"
Frakes: "You did, yes."
Sirtis: "Then, where was I during all those technical classes?"
Frakes (half-jokingly): "You were having your legs waxed."
It eventually got to where, because of how Troi went undercover disguised as a Romulan in episode, she became the expert on how Romulan tech worked, but which Sirtis still felt was incredibly flimsy reasoning since said episode did not really have Troi use Romulan tech that much.
while gene certainly had issues with women, in the context of his day he was a very liberal man in his attitudes on any number of social issues. clearly society has moved past the boundaries of his vision, and it did so in his lifetime... which is why there's the discrepancy in tng.
he was a shakey stone stepped on and off quickly while we crossed the river. Don't worship or demonize the man, he was just a guy with a few good ideas and a few bad ones. Also a notorious philanderer apparently
I'm honestly not sure if this thread is weirder than the he-man one or not
he was a shakey stone stepped on and off quickly while we crossed the river. Don't worship or demonize the man, he was just a guy with a few good ideas and a few bad ones. Also a notorious philanderer apparently
I'm honestly not sure if this thread is weirder than the he-man one or not
I should note that of that list:
Uhura - was having an affair with Gene.
Yeoman Rand - Left the show after being sexually assaulted.
Pulaski - enjoyed her guest roles on TOS, but hated the environment of TNG so she left after a season.
Tasha Yar - was fired. Came back a few times after Gene's death.
Beverly Crusher - was also fired, with some dubious undertones there. She was brought back after a season.
Marina Sirtis - Was almost fired, but they got rid of one of her fellow actresses instead.
Janeway - was cast years after Gene's death.
I did not know Uhura and Gene were having an affair.
Yeoman Rand was a sad case. Gene did try to fight for her to stay, at least he got her back for the Motion Picture.
The Next Gen actors were just plain jealous of Pulaski because Gene favored her because they had a history of working together, while the rest of the cast were relatively unknown, up-and-coming actors trying to make a name for themselves, which meant taking her down.
Tasha Yar abandoned Star Trek The Next Generation because she thought she was too good as an actress to be wasting her time on sci-fi.
Beverly Crusher and Marina Sirtis you can tell just by the way they talk in interviews and panels at conventions that they were divas and difficult to work with.
Janeway is still the beneficiary of Roddenberry’s legacy. No Gene, no Janeway.
So you're saying, that if Roddenberry was trully sexist, all of his shows would be sausage parties, no girls allowed?
There's absolutely no way, that a sexist producer would ever cast a woman in his show?...are you saying that's a good thing, or a bad thing? I don't think any actor should have that much pull on anything they work on.
Gene was also the man who wrote lyrics (that were never recorded and that he never intended to use) for the TOS theme so that he could get himself a co-writers credit and collect royalties on it.
For a man with a Utopian vision, he sure was obsessed with cash.
For a man with a Utopian vision, he sure was obsessed with cash.
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