Star Trek: The Original Series and The Next Generation

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Copper Bezel

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Every second gold. The work of the truest of craftsfolk.
I honestly really like the Animated series. The animation quality is low, no doubt about that, but the writing was actually pretty comparable to the original series, but without the restraints of live-action special effects/prop/set/costume budgets. The fact that they got most of the original cast for voice work was great, too.
Believe me, I completely agree. And the single barrier to entry in appreciating all that quality work is the animation.
 

ooo-baby

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Every second gold. The work of the truest of craftsfolk.

Believe me, I completely agree. And the single barrier to entry in appreciating all that quality work is the animation.

The Star Trek Animated Series gave us ooo-babies:

(cued to 0:30)

Nothing wrong with the animation here.

Comic books’ single barrier to entry in appreciating all that quality work is the total absence of animation.
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
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The Star Trek Animated Series gave us ooo-babies:
Damn, I had no idea it was responsible.

Nothing wrong with the animation here.
No animator in the history of animation would agree with you, including the ones actually working on this series in the 70s. The studio wasn't paid for good, the animation was never meant to be good, and it isn't.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
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Those Gold Key comics had a lot of inconsistencies with the world presented by the TV series. For instance, characters often spoke phrases that were never spoken in the show, like "Suffering space dust!" and "Great galloping galaxies!"
 

ooo-baby

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Those Gold Key comics had a lot of inconsistencies with the world presented by the TV series. For instance, characters often spoke phrases that were never spoken in the show, like "Suffering space dust!" and "Great galloping galaxies!"

They also nuked entire planets:


going where the original tv series had never gone before.
 

ooo-baby

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Only the Original Series could have produced this episode:


It was a sign of the times that would not work in Next Gen, DS9, Voyager, or today.
 

Destron D-69

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except every startrek show did do a redo of that episode... time travel shenanigans were like the 3rd most regularly reused plot

more so now, since the Discovery/snw shows only exist because of bs time travel.... like the kelvin timeline
 

Copper Bezel

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There's nothing to do with the Kelvin timeline, but I'm sure the Romulan who shot JFK has something to do with why the Enterprise looks dirty and doesn't have spikes on the bussards.

Except that that's nothing, and also SNW fits into a very specific space in the sequence of events that were already established in TOS.

There are plenty of people who would like Discovery to be an alternate timeline. Like, they want it real bad.
 

Tuxedo Prime

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There are plenty of people who would like Discovery to be an alternate timeline. Like, they want it real bad.
Some of these same people (whom I see a lot of on the Tube of You) also insist that There Can Be Only One Canonical ST Timeline, despite the fact that such hasn't been the case since "Mirror, Mirror" back in 1968.

Speaking only for myself here.... I view Startrek.com as insisting that Discovery is on the same timeline as the 1966-2005 material, and I might go along with that if not for the fact that Michael Okuda (I'm surprised the man still has hair with all the continuity he had to shape, nail down, then rearrange) spent no small effort establishing a consistent 23rd century look into the high-definition era. He could have made the Constitution-class Defiant look different in Enterprise, but instead he kept the same look as in "The Tholian Web", and only added a consistent-looking LCARS interface.

Now, of course, with 4K broadcasting, demanding that Strange New Worlds be shot on a balsa wood set would be silly. But when you look as the controversial Axanar fan-project, which worked a lot harder to match Jeffries' and Okuda's designs that Discovery ever did -- well, I remain unconvinced of Startrek.com's assertion. That doesn't mean it isn't canon -- Paramount owns it, Paramount released it, and I've been too long in Transformers fandom to think that "canon" and "continuity" are the same thing -- but I'm not going to think too hard about Making It All Fit.

Even Memory Alpha threw up its collective hands at the Tribble Cereal Commercial short-within-a-short, after all....
 

Copper Bezel

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"Making it all fit" is the problem IMO. I can accept that some things are looser than others, and I don't get why that's so hard to do. The Defiant in Enterprise is brilliant work, and for the sake of revisiting something from the past in an immediately recognizable way, it was also the best creative choice I think was possible. The impeccable execution makes it truly something special. Ironically Enterprise is the prequel I'd love to see booted from the timeline, mostly due to factors that result from its inbuilt limitations, but craft like that elevates well above its context.

Evoking the very specific familiarity with the original series Enterprise was the entire point of that exercise, and it was masterfully done.

I don't think much of what Discovery did was executed well, nor do I think the purposes behind its design work fit well with a prequel series like it wanted to be.

Strange New Worlds wants its design to be immediately identifiable and evoke the original series, but also be cooler than you remember. It's also not a single scene, which means that 1) it has time to establish its own look and feel that viewers become familiar with, and 2) it has its own things it needs to accomplish. The set designs and costumes work perfectly within that role.

I feel that the nonsense of the Khan episode really does provide an escape hatch to explain the difference between how SNW and TOS kitsch look. Not one that logically makes any sense (why is TOS pre-Romulan-dickery in the first place? Was JFK still shot in the TOS timeline?) but exactly the kind of desperate straw certain kinds of fans are happy to grasp at. Logically that implies that there's another timeline that somehow exists in the Trek universe where Discovery and SNW happen but slightly differently and with cheaper and smaller sets and prettier ships. (Or did exist, since in the case of the SNW episode, the original timeline ceased to exist when the changes were made, unlike when the 2009 movies time travel nonsensed their adaptation by saying that both timelines existed simultaneously, as later confirmed by Kovich in Discovery.)

I don't understand why it's so hard for fans to accept that we saw a ball in one series and it was red, and when it appeared in another series it was blue, without invoking time travel or declaring one or the other not canon. Adaptational differences are a thing. There are times you indulge them and times you avoid them. That simple. I would prefer the show didn't throw people who can't understand that a bone. It's not going to make them any less pissy, it's just going to feed even more bullshit "it's all Trip Tucker's snow globe delusion" fan theories.

Even when they suck, like that grungy-ass Enterprise. I'd accept a "retcon" in that case by way of the ship getting new hull plating but only so that I don't have to look at it anymore. = P
 

Destron D-69

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I guess it's dependent on what type of dork you are. Knowing it's all canon is great, and while some people will be okay with seeing it as just a function of the process of these things being an over 60 year long sequence of shows. Other people like to use the specific in-canon observations to draw lines saying okay a-b are this and c-e are this etc. nobody's saying (well at least not me) that any of it isn't canon... just that there are more than one continuity.

Enterprise is both a prequel to tos and a holodeck program in tng afterall, perspective is important.

what I was originally trying to point out was that startrek has a lot more to say about time travel than just CotEoF... and most of them were better than Just "bones gets Mad a lady died again like she was supposed to."
 

Copper Bezel

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The original Star Trek Beyond Enterprise-A? I mean, I agree that's a beautiful ship, but the Prime Constitution refit still feels more right to me. Maybe it's just the decades of exposure, or knowing that the Beyond ship is "too big".

I guess it's dependent on what type of dork you are. Knowing it's all canon is great, and while some people will be okay with seeing it as just a function of the process of these things being an over 60 year long sequence of shows. Other people like to use the specific in-canon observations to draw lines saying okay a-b are this and c-e are this etc. nobody's saying (well at least not me) that any of it isn't canon... just that there are more than one continuity.

Enterprise is both a prequel to tos and a holodeck program in tng afterall, perspective is important.

what I was originally trying to point out was that startrek has a lot more to say about time travel than just CotEoF... and most of them were better than Just "bones gets Mad a lady died again like she was supposed to."
Yeah that makes sense.

And yeah, I guess it's ... okay if they have to leave those hooks for people, even if it irks me from my viewing perspective. 😛
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
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Saw that Hard Times ep with O'Brien. That's the third ep where he's been put through the wringer. One was the body double (creepy, sorta), when he was on trial under Cardassian law (they really had to show his tooth removal and getting humiliated) and now this mental temporal accelerated time prison. Poor dude but I feel he'll maybe two more special horrible experiences, haha.

Worf has history I don't know. I didn't know he has a son. Or was... Exiled? Or house disgraced? I'm not sure which. Or has a brother (that was pretty cool but I feel that could abuse that memory wipe thing). I don't know this Govrom whatever guy is. Oh and O'Brien was in Next Gen?

Anyhow, I followed the Legionnaires, Legion of Super-Heroes reboot series in the 90s and the shapeshifting race of Durlans were distrusted. I love seeing a whole series treating shapeshifters as a threat, presented in live action.
 

Lobjob

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Worf has a lot of wild twists and turns, but all that goodness is in TNG. DS9 continues it beautifully though. Its good stuff.
 
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