I mentioned it in passing and it seemingly became of interest to others. I only commented further for clarification.
Moving on, I suppose?
Last edited:
Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter SHIELD Agent 47
- Start date
Moving on, I suppose?
How did they
?
Did I miss something?
fake a space battle with another ship in order to trap the mutant-changelings
Did I miss something?
They have been hiding in places where derelict spaceships are. They probably just towed one out.
Picard night!
The fact that Picard and Crusher revealed the reason they think the changelings stole Picard's body means that whatever the reason was, it's not that. We also got the hint that Irumodic syndrome isn't what we think it is. Putting two and two together, along with the fact that someone non-changeling is controlling Vadic, I continue to think that we are seeing the Borg Queen's endgame. The Irumodic syndrome is Locutus, essentially making Jack the son of Locutus. As for Jack's powers? Perhaps the syndrome/whatever it is has been manipulating his body since birth, making him superhuman and therefore a potential "super-borg." That's the kind of weapon that the Borg Queen would really want to get her hands on.
As for why Picard's body is needed? Perhaps she needs Locutus back to activate his son.
On a side note, I have always loved Lore. He is the only bigger jerk in the Star Trek universe than Shaw. With their shared Daystrom connection, Lore was almost definitely part of Vadic's plan, and the reason she was so calm. He will help anyone to hurt Data's friends.
As for why Picard's body is needed? Perhaps she needs Locutus back to activate his son.
On a side note, I have always loved Lore. He is the only bigger jerk in the Star Trek universe than Shaw. With their shared Daystrom connection, Lore was almost definitely part of Vadic's plan, and the reason she was so calm. He will help anyone to hurt Data's friends.
I was hazy on the details, so I fact-checked Vadic.
The Founders did not get the cure by a Changeling stealing it. Julian Bashir stole it and he gave it to Odo and Odo gave it to Mom and the Great Link. I wonder if Vadic has ever been back tot he Great Link since the Dominion War. Her own group may have operated independently that whole time and had to separately steal the cure to cure themselves.
It bothers me that the story gives credence to the idea that somehow Jack's blood could help rebuild Locutus. Stupid writing. I rejected the idea because it makes no sense, but to the writers it is something that a medical doctor could be concluding. Jean-Luc Picard's dead body has his DNA. What could they need Jack's DNA for? So yes, I hope they brought that up so they can bait and switch, but it was stupid bait to begin with and I don't trust them not to say, "Yeah, this is totally how things work".
I guess the Locutus thing isn't impossible. If Jack's deal with Sidney wasn't super-networking, it's hard to say what it was! But Vadic had that one line to Crusher that "he wasn't for you either." That says to me that there was a reason Jack was important even before Picard's human body was killed, and that whether it was involved with this changeling business or not, there was some kind of secret keikaku involved all the way back at Jack's conception. She could have meant something else, but that was the implication I took.
There have been enough Borg references now that I should be convinced this is definitely a Borg thing and the person Vadic is under the heel of is the Borg Queen. The "real Borg", as Shaw put it. Certainly it seems unlikely that this person who talks to her through her hand and can remotely torture her Unicron-to-Galvatron style are themselves just a normal Founder. Even though I can easily imagine the Founders deciding that Vadic's "kind" is not as "special or complex" as she thinks, and talking about humans as "beholden to a singular flesh" works equally well for the Founders as it does for the Borg. (Or Lore for that matter, but his current situation means that he can't be in control of much of anything, and really just wants control of the brain he's cohabitating.) It sure doesn't work for many other possibilities. But the reference to "your own resistance" being "meaningless" sure does tip the scales away from Founders and toward the Borg.
I thought that "Tick-tock goes the ancient clock" and "shorter lifespans" were related somehow, that perhaps what Vadic's hand puppet was offering was a cure, but Vadic may have only meant the time running down until the the big Frontier Day fleet show and the deadline for the plan involving Jack.
God, Jack keeps coming so close to telling Picard, Sidney, or Crusher what's actually going on in his head. It could be frustrating but the way he avoids it in the ready room chat with Picard, taking a step into it but then shying away from admitting it and instead rationalizing why they should just give him up instead, feels so natural and relatable.
Gotta be said, the reveal that nasty parts of Starfleet were doing these awful things to captive changelings, possibly even after the war ended, is making Vadic's point of view not very unsympathetic. It's possible that Vadic's people infiltrated Daystrom first and so have been making a habit of getting all the juiciest stuff sent there, explaining things like the portal gun, so maybe it wasn't quite the little shop of horrors it is in the present until after that point, but there's a certain amount of proportionate response justified here. It wouldn't be sad to see Daystrom deorbited at this point, possibly in relation to solar orbit and preferably while containing anyone who ever had oversight there. Apart from that, Vadic is really moving up the list of best Star Trek villains for me.
Nice to see that these changelings with Vadic's new technique still have the ability to become inanimate objects, even if we only get to see it in the form of the T-1000 floor trick with the turbolift (and even if it was paced a little weird and made Seven look unusually incautious for getting jumped like that.)
Yeah, I guess propaganda and deliberately uncharitable interpretation only goes so far when you can experience the memory for yourself. It sounds like it's almost what she said but not close enough for someone who could effectively see it firsthand. One possibility is that while Vadic stressed that only changelings who wanted to take on her new distinctiveness and its side effects willingly did so, it was still considered too dangerous to allow her back into the Great Link, so she's experiencing isolation from her own people on top of the rest as well. Certainly she has the means to get back if she had wanted to instead of spending that time infiltrating Starfleet.
There have been enough Borg references now that I should be convinced this is definitely a Borg thing and the person Vadic is under the heel of is the Borg Queen. The "real Borg", as Shaw put it. Certainly it seems unlikely that this person who talks to her through her hand and can remotely torture her Unicron-to-Galvatron style are themselves just a normal Founder. Even though I can easily imagine the Founders deciding that Vadic's "kind" is not as "special or complex" as she thinks, and talking about humans as "beholden to a singular flesh" works equally well for the Founders as it does for the Borg. (Or Lore for that matter, but his current situation means that he can't be in control of much of anything, and really just wants control of the brain he's cohabitating.) It sure doesn't work for many other possibilities. But the reference to "your own resistance" being "meaningless" sure does tip the scales away from Founders and toward the Borg.
I thought that "Tick-tock goes the ancient clock" and "shorter lifespans" were related somehow, that perhaps what Vadic's hand puppet was offering was a cure, but Vadic may have only meant the time running down until the the big Frontier Day fleet show and the deadline for the plan involving Jack.
God, Jack keeps coming so close to telling Picard, Sidney, or Crusher what's actually going on in his head. It could be frustrating but the way he avoids it in the ready room chat with Picard, taking a step into it but then shying away from admitting it and instead rationalizing why they should just give him up instead, feels so natural and relatable.
Gotta be said, the reveal that nasty parts of Starfleet were doing these awful things to captive changelings, possibly even after the war ended, is making Vadic's point of view not very unsympathetic. It's possible that Vadic's people infiltrated Daystrom first and so have been making a habit of getting all the juiciest stuff sent there, explaining things like the portal gun, so maybe it wasn't quite the little shop of horrors it is in the present until after that point, but there's a certain amount of proportionate response justified here. It wouldn't be sad to see Daystrom deorbited at this point, possibly in relation to solar orbit and preferably while containing anyone who ever had oversight there. Apart from that, Vadic is really moving up the list of best Star Trek villains for me.
Nice to see that these changelings with Vadic's new technique still have the ability to become inanimate objects, even if we only get to see it in the form of the T-1000 floor trick with the turbolift (and even if it was paced a little weird and made Seven look unusually incautious for getting jumped like that.)
Yeah, I guess propaganda and deliberately uncharitable interpretation only goes so far when you can experience the memory for yourself. It sounds like it's almost what she said but not close enough for someone who could effectively see it firsthand. One possibility is that while Vadic stressed that only changelings who wanted to take on her new distinctiveness and its side effects willingly did so, it was still considered too dangerous to allow her back into the Great Link, so she's experiencing isolation from her own people on top of the rest as well. Certainly she has the means to get back if she had wanted to instead of spending that time infiltrating Starfleet.
On the speculation about Jack, if they wanted to lean into the DS9 references further, I've seen people speculating there could be some Pah Wraith stuff going down, given the eyes. Main thought was that they're the same race as the Prophets technically, and the Prophets were behind SIsko being born, so the Pah Wraiths could have the same capability. Given the end credits have been hinting at everything thus far though, and them having no references that I'm aware of to the Prophets or Wraiths, the Borg are probably more likely. Especially considering that the First Contact theme figures prominently into the end theme, before it hits the TNG opening, and the end credits have had hints to everything thus far, but no real meaning yet for why they would use the First Contact theme(other than it's a nice piece of music).
Though the First Contact thing could also be a hint that this is going to spawn something new by the end too.
Though the First Contact thing could also be a hint that this is going to spawn something new by the end too.
I really have to rewatch DS9.
I knew I had seen red eyes before in Trek but I couldn’t place it. That may explain Jack’s fighting skills. His telepathy was a surprise too. Didn’t Dukat have similar abilities once he let the Pah Wraith take over?
If the borg are indeed involved (again) the finale could be shaping up to be a huge send off to the 24th century era. Changelings, Borg, Lore, the returning cast, the cameos and legacy nods, etc. I’m just hoping they knock it out of the park.
As for this episode, I hope they meet the real Captain Tuvok. Nice seeing him again even though it was a subversion. I really appreciated that they addressed Geordi’s feelings about Data’s death and how it affected him. Looking forward to next week.
If the borg are indeed involved (again) the finale could be shaping up to be a huge send off to the 24th century era. Changelings, Borg, Lore, the returning cast, the cameos and legacy nods, etc. I’m just hoping they knock it out of the park.
As for this episode, I hope they meet the real Captain Tuvok. Nice seeing him again even though it was a subversion. I really appreciated that they addressed Geordi’s feelings about Data’s death and how it affected him. Looking forward to next week.
It really pays NOT to be a member of Voyager on “Picard”. Seven is the only one that hasn’t been actively missing (Janeway) Replaced by a Changeling (Tuvok) or brutally tortured to death (Icheb). I’m half expecting Harry Kim to have been demoted to Janitor at the Fleet Museum next…
I don't think it's lazy. They made it very clear when they turned him on to talk to him it was only the speech processor. His motor functions were left disabled. After they were done they turned him off again. I don't think they had any reason to believe or be aware that he'd have the ability to reactive himself while he was turned off (never been done before) and invoke his motor function capability.
I know they understand the capabilities of Data/Lore but it didn't seem that much of a stretch that they didn't unplug his diagnostic cable
I know they understand the capabilities of Data/Lore but it didn't seem that much of a stretch that they didn't unplug his diagnostic cable
I hate to admit it but that's legitimate. Geordi was extremely concerned about the personality partition staying intact. If Data had the ability to boot himself up in this new unknown body, it would have been safer to have the diagnostics still running when he did than to not have them running. They had no more reason to suspect that he could hack the ship through the diagnostic cable than they did to suspect that he could boot himself back up with full motor control and plug himself in to do it anyway, at which point the cable question would be moot.
Hell, we as the audience don't even actually know whether the cable was necessary for him to get his motor control back online. It stands to reason that if Lore needed to take control of Geordi's diagnostic software before he could regain motor control, he could have then also removed the partitions like Geordi didn't want to do, and we know he hasn't done that yet because he spent a fair amount of time just standing around looking ominous in there, and yet Data's personality resurfaced just by talking to him a bit. I think there's a really good chance the cable was just convenient in the sense that he didn't have to rummage around the room for another compatible cable. And this is Star Trek, so all cables are compatible with enough compensate.
Hell, we as the audience don't even actually know whether the cable was necessary for him to get his motor control back online. It stands to reason that if Lore needed to take control of Geordi's diagnostic software before he could regain motor control, he could have then also removed the partitions like Geordi didn't want to do, and we know he hasn't done that yet because he spent a fair amount of time just standing around looking ominous in there, and yet Data's personality resurfaced just by talking to him a bit. I think there's a really good chance the cable was just convenient in the sense that he didn't have to rummage around the room for another compatible cable. And this is Star Trek, so all cables are compatible with enough compensate.
I am betting that we see Harry Kim as captain of the Enterprise F. I know he was a captain in the alternate future about this time, so it would work, and give our forever ensign his just rewards. And if we get to see the Enterprise F, who else should be captain? Only Kim, Sisko, Paris, or Chakotay would do for it.
Honestly? I would love to see Va'Kel Shon make it into Alpha Canon, though I don't know if his VA for STO looks enough like Shon to be able to make it work. It'd give us more Andorian representation and the first non-human Enterprise captain. With all the STO nods they've slipped in here and there, it's not out of the realm of possibility, just that it's more difficult to bring in a STO-original character to a live action series than it is to bring in a STO-original ship or animal species. (Risian caracals originated in STO and have shown up in a couple different series now.) I suppose with how hard they've been nostalgia-baiting(not in a bad way mind you) it would be more likely to be existing alumni, but Shaw shows they can do new characters too.