Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[Pocket]

Killing people who are waving white flags is a war crime, but I'm not sure what the rules are for assigning responsibility. Like, I doubt this one incident would be enough to make the entire nation of Israel "guilty of war crimes" as far as the UN is concerned, but I wonder what the threshold is now, and what the protocol is in situations like this where you can in fact just pin it on a small group of dickass soldiers acting on their own judgment. Do you hand them over to the Hague? What do they do if they're found guilty; does the UN operate its own prison for war criminals?

 

[wonko the sane?]

Generally, it falls to the soldier who fired first, if it can be confirmed that they were ORDERED to do this at any point, they would follow the chain until they find out who issued the actual order.

The soldier would still be held accountable, but they would also go after the higher ups and the brass who issued the orders.

My question is: how often is hamas ambushing the IDF with offers of surrender that they just ******* wasted those guys?

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Netanyahu's method of ouster is getting less "Hoover" and more "Ghadaffi" by the day.

 

[MrBlud]

Like, I doubt this one incident would be enough to make the entire nation of Israel "guilty of war crimes" as far as the UN is concerned

I wouldn’t take that bet given the rabid UN opposition to anything and everything Israel does.

It’s really hard to make headway because the world *does* have an anti-semitism problem; but Israel also likes to conflate *any* criticism of how they operate in that lense as well which isn’t always the case.

 

[Pocket]

My question is: how often is hamas ambushing the IDF with offers of surrender that they just ******* wasted those guys?

You mean fake surrenders that are a trap? (Which is a common enough thing that there's a word for it, "perfidy", and it is also a war crime for reasons that should be obvious.) The answer could honestly be anywhere from "as often as they think they can get away with it, because obviously nothing is beneath them" to "never; the soldiers that did this are just that trigger-happy."

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I wouldn't put it past Hamas, but why would they do that? They're the ones that are dug in and hard to engage directly.

 

[NovaSaber]

Well this seems extreme and probably unconstitutional.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1735592025389498642

 

[Pale Rider]

Sure, that won't just intensify the backlash at all.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

It has already been illegal throughout the entire lifetime of everyone reading this for Americans to participate in the Arab League boycott of Israel. Most Americans never even knew, so it's not exactly oppressive. BDS itself is pointless and zero-impact, which should be of more concern to its purported adherents than any law responding to it.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

UK joins US in announcing travel ban on extremist Israeli settlers - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

"Extremist settlers, by targeting and killing Palestinian civilians, are undermining security and stability for both Israelis and Palestinians," Cameron wrote on X.

www.jta.org

For the record, this is good. Though it's pathetic that it turned out to be necessary, since Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir acquiesced to settlers enough that the violent ones seemingly can no longer be reigned in...except by pulling the army away from Gaza....

 

[Pale Rider]

Netanyahu Says He’s ‘Proud’ To Have Prevented Top United States Policy Goal

The declaration puts Israel’s prime minister at odds with President Joe Biden’s stated goals for the region.

www.huffpost.com

 

[MrBlud]

That’s got big “How dare we give Israeli’s a whole country, have you seen 1940’s Warsaw?” energy…

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

What an amazing man.

 

[Pale Rider]

Israeli Official Suggests Gaza Be ‘Flattened Completely, Just Like Auschwitz Today’

In addition to mentioning the Nazi death camp, David Azoulai said in a radio interview that Israel should forcibly send Palestinians to refugee camps in Lebanon.

www.huffpost.com

 

[wonko the sane?]

You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain...

 

[Teufel]

Thinking of useful idiot Westerners who chant "globalize the intifada."

Link

COPENHAGEN/BERLIN, Dec 14 (Reuters) - Seven people, including four suspected Hamas members, were arrested in Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands on suspicion of planning attacks on Jewish institutions in Europe, authorities in the three countries said on Thursday.

Three of the suspects were detained in Berlin and another was detained in the Netherlands, all four longstanding members of Hamas with close links to the leadership of Hamas' military branch, German prosecutors said in a statement.

A Hamas official denied those held were connected to the group.

Three people arrested in Denmark would be charged under the terrorism clause of the criminal code and put in front of a judge for preliminary questioning, police said. It was not clear if there was a link between the arrests in Denmark and those in Germany and the Netherlands.

Dutch national Nazih R was arrested by police in Rotterdam, while Lebanon-born Abdelhamid Al A and Ibrahim El-R, as well as Egyptian national Mohamed B, were arrested in the German capital, German prosecutors said.

Abdelhamid Al A had been assigned by Hamas leaders in Lebanon with finding sources for weapons, prosecutors said. The weapons were due to be taken to Berlin and kept ready for potential terrorist attacks against Jewish institutions, prosecutors said.

"Following the terrible attacks by Hamas on the Israeli population, attacks on Jews in Jewish institutions have also increased in our country in recent weeks," German Justice Minister Marco Buschmann said in a statement on the detentions.

"We must therefore do everything we can to ensure that Jews in our country do not have to fear for their safety again."

 

[Ironbite4]

Meanwhile....

Palestinian Girl Killed in Israeli Attack on Maternity Ward

The girl had both legs amputated from an earlier Israeli attack and was receiving treatment at Nasser hospital.

www.thedailybeast.com

Ironbite-justify it.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

"...Each conflict is unique in the way it is fought, but the experts the BBC has spoken to agree that the rate of killing in Gaza is significantly bigger than in others fought recently.

"What we're seeing in terms of civilian deaths has already far outpaced rates of harm from any given conflict we have documented," said Emily Tripp, director of Airwars, an organisation which has monitored civilian deaths in wars and conflicts since 2014..."

Israel Gaza: What Gaza's death toll says about the war

At least 20,000 Palestinians in Gaza have been reported killed in the war, according to Hamas.

www.bbc.com

"Least Biased:
- These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appealing to emotion or stereotypes). The reporting is factual and usually sourced. These are the most credible media sources. See all Least Biased Sources.

Overall, we rate Airwars Least Biased based on accurately cataloging conflicts worldwide and the toll on civilians. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact-check record."

Airwars - Bias and Credibility

LEAST BIASED These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appealing to emotion or

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Who We Are

Airwars is a not-for-profit transparency watchdog which tracks, assesses, archives and investigates civilian harm claims in conflict-affected nations. Founded in 2014, by Chris Woods and Basile Simon, we are today a leading authority on conflict violence as it affects civilian communities. Our...

airwars.org

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Israel Gaza: What Gaza's death toll says about the war

At least 20,000 Palestinians in Gaza have been reported killed in the war, according to Hamas.

www.bbc.com

A lot of caveats around that report:

* As always, the death toll comes directly from Hamas, which deliberately does not separate civilians from combatants, and has not been independently verified.

* It also does not separate the civilians who have been killed by Hamas itself - both those they shot for attempting to flee, and those who die in missile misfires like the Al-Ahli hospital.

* They have no business saying something like "The Ukraine war has killed an estimated 10,000 people" and then quickly adding "but some estimate the number is higher." An Associated Press report put the death toll in just Mariupol alone at 75,000:

Russia scrubs Mariupol's Ukraine identity, builds on death

Throughout Mariupol, Russian workers are tearing down bombed-out buildings at a rate of at least one a day, hauling away shattered bodies with the debris.

apnews.com

* The article repeatedly welcomes expert testimony on death rates from Marc "Flak88" Garlasco, who was fired from Human Rights Watch for his unseemly devotion to collecting Nazi paraphernalia.


Israel is killing a lot of people. If the article is trying to "rank" the death number or rate compared to other wars, they're going to need much more rigorously vetted numbers for all conflicts listed.

 

[Teufel]

Organizations still insisting the Hamas run Gaza Ministry be taken at face value on figures baffles me. Early on in the conflict in regards to one of the most high profile alleged massacres they said Israel killed 500 civilians in a strike on Al-Ahli hospital. Then it turned out more like dozens in a strike in the hospital's parking lot by a misfired Palestinian rocket, getting virtually everything wrong with no accountability or explanation of how they arrived at that initial figure, their only revision was down to 471 which is wildly above any independent estimates and assessments. And yet the orgs are still like "no, no, you can still totally trust them." I don't get it. You're just supposed to memory hole this blatant falsehood they perpetrated and roll with expert assurances.