Yes, many Original Christians were born culturally and ethnically Jewish. Upon becoming disciples and followers of Jesus, they were no longer culturally Jewish, they were Christian. In spreading the Word of God, they traveled far and wide, and (presumably) procreated with whomever followed this new faith. The ethnic Jewish identity held by many Original Christians was not something they upheld, and the mixing among new followers diluted the ethnic Jewish-ness of these people over thousands of years. So, in the same way a five-generation American might have roots from France or Germany, they aren't "ethnically French" anywhere outside of Ancestry.com. The same could be said for multi-generational modern Christians who may have haled from "ethnically Jewish" ancestors.
Anti-Semitism
- Thread starter Teufel
- Start date
So would it be fair to say that anti-Semitism does not really apply to these people since they do not really identify with or uphold the Jewish faith, customs, traditions and lifestyle? I think alot of famous Hollywood actors are Jewish but you would not really know it, or even think of them as Jewish, unless someone pointed it out. They are loved by everyone and for all intents and purposes they are viewed as white Caucasians.
Hitler also rounded up other groups of peoples besides Jews like:
Disabled people
Roma/Sinti (Gypsies)
Homosexuals
Poles
Black people
Mental health problems
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Why aren't "Gypsies" recognized in the United States as a protected class?
The Nazis also rounded up a group they categorized as ‘Asocials’:
The Nazis used the terms ‘asocial’ and ‘workshy’ to categorise together a group of people who did not conform to their social norms.
This group included beggars, alcoholics, drug addicts, prostitutes, and pacifists (people who believe war is unjustified).
People who were categorised as ‘asocials’ were persecuted and some were taken to concentration camps where they were forced to wear black triangles.
Roma and Sinti people were often classed as ‘asocial’.
So this might imply alot of anti-Semitism is due to not fitting in socially.
Disabled people
Roma/Sinti (Gypsies)
Homosexuals
Poles
Black people
Mental health problems
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Why aren't "Gypsies" recognized in the United States as a protected class?
The Nazis also rounded up a group they categorized as ‘Asocials’:
The Nazis used the terms ‘asocial’ and ‘workshy’ to categorise together a group of people who did not conform to their social norms.
This group included beggars, alcoholics, drug addicts, prostitutes, and pacifists (people who believe war is unjustified).
People who were categorised as ‘asocials’ were persecuted and some were taken to concentration camps where they were forced to wear black triangles.
Roma and Sinti people were often classed as ‘asocial’.
So this might imply alot of anti-Semitism is due to not fitting in socially.
Well... have you ever met one? I'm sure Romani-Americans exist, somewhere (if nothing else, it's probably where the carnival fortune-teller archetype came from), but it's definitely not a major demographic or one with a significant presence in the entertainment industry. Even in the realms of fiction, I can only think of three named characters who live in America and are coded even vaguely as Romani—Raz from Psychonauts, Hector Zeroni from Holes, and Prunella from Arthur.
Also keep in mind that one of the MAJOR differences between the Romani and the Jews is that the Romani generally gave up their original faith(a flavor of Hinduism)and converted to the predominant religion of the areas they migrated to.
Judaism - Interfaith Dialogue, Theology, History
Judaism - Interfaith Dialogue, Theology, History: Jewish-Christian relations in the 19th century were strained at best and often broke down during periods of open conflict. The established Christian churches, particularly Roman Catholicism, were staunch upholders of the old order; they...
www.britannica.com
How Jewish Christians Became Christians | My Jewish Learning
Jewish Christian Schism. Ancient Jewish Intergroup Relations. Ancient Jewish History. Jewish History and Community.
www.myjewishlearning.com
Comparing Christianity and Judaism
Kreeft outlines the main theological and practical differences, as well as the important common elements, between Christianity and Judaism. If Jesus r...
www.catholiceducation.org
We also got the two greatest superheroes from Stan Lee (Spider-man) and Bob Kane/Bill finger (Batman), who were all Jewish:
Early life. Stanley Martin Lieber was born on December 28, 1922, in Manhattan, New York City, in the apartment of his Romanian-born Jewish immigrant parents, Celia (née Solomon) and Jack Lieber, at the corner of West 98th Street and West End Avenue. Lee was raised in a Jewish household.
Robert Kahn was born in New York City, New York. His parents, Augusta and Herman Kahn, an engraver, were of Ashkenazi Jewish descent. A high school friend of fellow cartoonist and future Spirit creator Will Eisner, Robert Kahn graduated from DeWitt Clinton High School and then legally changed his name to Robert Kane.
Early life. Bill Finger was born in Denver, Colorado, in 1914 to an Ashkenazi Jewish family. His father, Louis Finger, was born in Austria-Hungary in 1890 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1907.
Early life. Stanley Martin Lieber was born on December 28, 1922, in Manhattan, New York City, in the apartment of his Romanian-born Jewish immigrant parents, Celia (née Solomon) and Jack Lieber, at the corner of West 98th Street and West End Avenue. Lee was raised in a Jewish household.
Robert Kahn was born in New York City, New York. His parents, Augusta and Herman Kahn, an engraver, were of Ashkenazi Jewish descent. A high school friend of fellow cartoonist and future Spirit creator Will Eisner, Robert Kahn graduated from DeWitt Clinton High School and then legally changed his name to Robert Kane.
Early life. Bill Finger was born in Denver, Colorado, in 1914 to an Ashkenazi Jewish family. His father, Louis Finger, was born in Austria-Hungary in 1890 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1907.
Why do Democrats like the squad (Reps. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Rashida Tlaib of Michigan and Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts) seem to support Palestine over Israel.
They don't want to support Israel (eg. send them money or give them defensive weapons).
I thought Democrats were all about supporting the oppressed and minorities. Even Jimmy Carter favors the Palestinians over Israel.
And why do they call the Jews the occupiers. Isn't Israel their original homeland?
A Democrat neighbor I used to have refused to go to Starbucks when she found out they were sending money to Israel. She did not like that and boycotted Starbucks. What's with these Democrats and Israel?
They don't want to support Israel (eg. send them money or give them defensive weapons).
I thought Democrats were all about supporting the oppressed and minorities. Even Jimmy Carter favors the Palestinians over Israel.
And why do they call the Jews the occupiers. Isn't Israel their original homeland?
A Democrat neighbor I used to have refused to go to Starbucks when she found out they were sending money to Israel. She did not like that and boycotted Starbucks. What's with these Democrats and Israel?
I have a hard time leaving emotion out of this discussion, so I'll let AI do the talking for me:
Leftist criticism of Israel can vary widely and is often rooted in specific political or ideological perspectives. It's essential to recognize that "leftists" is a broad term that encompasses a diverse range of views and beliefs. Here are some common reasons why some leftists might be critical of Israel:
Leftist criticism of Israel can vary widely and is often rooted in specific political or ideological perspectives. It's essential to recognize that "leftists" is a broad term that encompasses a diverse range of views and beliefs. Here are some common reasons why some leftists might be critical of Israel:
- Occupation and Settlements: Some leftists criticize Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the building of settlements in these territories. They argue that these actions violate international law and the rights of the Palestinian people.
- Human Rights Concerns: Concerns over human rights abuses against Palestinians, including issues related to freedom of movement, access to resources, and treatment of prisoners, can lead to criticism.
- Support for a Two-State Solution: Some leftists advocate for a two-state solution that would create an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. They may criticize Israeli policies that they perceive as hindering this outcome.
- Military Actions: Israel's military actions, particularly in Gaza, have been a source of criticism. Some leftists argue that these actions are disproportionate and result in unnecessary civilian casualties.
- Alignment with U.S. Foreign Policy: Some leftists are critical of Israel due to its close relationship with the United States, particularly regarding military aid and cooperation. They may see this relationship as part of broader issues with U.S. foreign policy.
- Nationalism and Identity Politics: Some leftists may be critical of what they perceive as ethnonationalist aspects of Israeli identity and governance, arguing that these can lead to discrimination against non-Jewish citizens.
- Economic Policies: Israel's economic policies, particularly those related to privatization and neoliberalism, may also be a source of criticism from some on the left.
In many ways Israel is or appears to be stronger than the Palestinians. Thus the conflict can make the Palestinians look like underdogs, "the little guy," and this naturally attracts sympathy - especially from liberal / left-oriented people.
If one takes into account the tenuousness of Jewish survival, and the level of destruction inflicted against Jews in the recent past and threatened against them now by the ideology driving Palestinian militias, that "big guy / little guy" dynamic can change, or disappear entirely. But to get that perspective, people really have to care enough to take a deep dive into Jewish history, and most people in the world have never even met a Jew, let alone read up on their history. There are more people in Lagos, Nigeria than there are Jews in the world. They are massively outnumbered by people who hate them and actively support their oppression or extermination.
"Occupier" is a shifty word in these conversations. Eretz Yisrael - the geographic land of Israel, not the same thing as the modern state established in 1948 - is indeed the native homeland of the Jewish people. Since the Six-Day War of 1967 (and there's a whoooooole long convo that could be had over that), Israel has held a military occupation over the West Bank and Gaza. It is reasonable and bipartisan to want that occupation to end, under safe circumstances. But pay careful attention to whether people shift into claiming all Israelis in all of Israel are "occupiers" or "settlers."
Starbucks was not sending money to Israel. This was a complete lie spread on social media. Starbucks ceased all operations in Israel nearly 20 years ago because of unexpectedly strong local preference for a pre-existing chain, Aroma.
You might as well read Jimmy Carter's book about Palestine to get his perspective. However, there is no escaping the fact that Carter is also an old man born in the Deep South in 1924, and he was raised with his own doses of Christian antisemitism. Carter repeatedly blamed Jewish lobbyists and Jewish money for his defeat in 1980, and was reported as preaching in his church a way that repeated old Christian prejudices against Jews (evil Pharisees who wanted to kill Jesus, etc.). An upbringing and cultural background like that can color a person's perspective.
AOC and particularly Ilhan Omar have unfortunate habits of repeating whatever they read about Israel from whatever fringe source, not comprehending that it could have been prejudiced or just plain false when they read it, then having to apologize after. That's me being very generous to them, btw. As for Iron Dome, if we can all admit that opposing Roe means being okay with women dying in botched abortions, we can admit that shutting off the anti-missile shield means being okay with a fascist militia killing Jews.
I mentioned in one of my prior answers to you that antisemitism is very old, that it was around before all modern political systems and had been absorbed by them. That is as true for left-wing politics as it is for anything else, and before our own lifetimes it wasn't even seen as something to hide.
- Karl Marx: "The true god of the Jews is money, the true religion of the Jews is swindling"
- Pierre Leroux, inventor of the word "socialism": "The Jewish spirit is the banker spirit... their individualistic and egotistical industry is destined to reign, for a time, over the ruins of any true social organization"
- Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, inventor of the word "anarchism": "The Jew is the enemy of the human race. One must send this race back to Asia or exterminate it."
- Charles Fourier, inventor of the word "feminism": "Jews are a parasitic sect... the source of all evil."
tl,dr: there is a lot of history that most people don't know because there are very few Jews. It can be hard work to put together a vote or protest against Israel that doesn't sweep up some old, longstanding antisemitism inside it. If the Palestine issue is really worth something to people, it should be worth the hard work necessary.
I have attached a good primer on how to recognize the way antisemitic tropes can derail normal liberal political goals, including working for Palestinian rights.
Case in point on the Carter thing... Bit of a confession on my past as well.... I grew up along the banks of the lower Mississippi and the culture there DID affect many of my views. I had views on the Middle East that were pretty negative all around. Downright monstrous in some cases. There was a time that I honestly thought the best solution to the issues in the region was to forcibly remove every person from Jerusalem and it's surrounding areas and simply glass the entire region so there'd be nothing left to fight over. Time, knowledge, reflection and compassion have made me realize how ignorant and wrong said views were. I STILL have views rooted in ignorance instilled by the culture that shaped me that I must overcome.
Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu were good friends, and Trump did alot for Israel. His son-in-law is Jewish. His daughter converted to Judaism. Yet Trump doesn't get credit for any of that. He still gets accused of being anti-Semitic.
Barack Obama and Netanyahu had a very cold relationship. They did not like each other. You could say they hated and despised each other. I heard one time when Benjamin Netanyahu came to visit the White House to meet with Barack Obama, Obama left Netanyahu sitting in the lobby, waiting for him, for hours.
Yet, the Democratic Party seems to be branded the party that helps and cares about the Jews. Are Jewish people afraid of the Democratic Party and the Squad?
Barack Obama and Netanyahu had a very cold relationship. They did not like each other. You could say they hated and despised each other. I heard one time when Benjamin Netanyahu came to visit the White House to meet with Barack Obama, Obama left Netanyahu sitting in the lobby, waiting for him, for hours.
Yet, the Democratic Party seems to be branded the party that helps and cares about the Jews. Are Jewish people afraid of the Democratic Party and the Squad?
Nearly all American Jews support the Democrats and also Israel. Numbers for each of those within the community have never been below 70% in the lifetime of anyone reading this. Right now they are probably higher. This always, always confuses both Democrats and Republicans. Both parties have their share of antisemitic crazies. American Jews are accustomed to antisemitic crazies among Republicans but are increasingly concerned by their rise in the Democrats, which they have always seen as a safe ground. There is a lot of recent reporting about a feeling of "political homelessness."
Trump is antisemitic. He constantly talks about Jewish money, Jewish donors, he spreads and uplifts antisemitic memes and conspiracy theories, he attempted an actual fascist coup d'etat. He has also done some good things for Israel, though nearly all of them actually came from Jared Kushner. Israel benefits from a reliable relationship with a stable America. Just by virtue of so badly damaging America, Trump was bad for Israel. Even as I am grateful for much of what he did, it was not worth the price and it still would have been vastly better for both countries, and the world, if Hillary Clinton had won.
Barack Obama was the best president in my lifetime and Benjamin Netanyahu did a pretty good job as PM until late 2022, and those two men just haaaated each other. Viscerally. Personally. And each of them magnified each other's worst aspects: Obama's sense of himself as a post-political avatar of change wielding magic speech telepathy, Netanyahu's unstoppable douchebaggery and lying and general FoxNews-iness. Obama charged stupidly into the Iran Deal - his own version of the Iraq War, resting on false assumptions and applauded by false experts; Netanyahu then spit in Obama's face by attacking the Iran Deal on the floor of Congress.
There is an excellent overview of this time in the PBS documentary "Netanyahu At War." I think it is as honest and unbiased as any piece of reporting on Israel I've ever seen - and because it's PBS, the whole thing is available for free. I highly recommend it:
George W. Bush and Jacques Chirac also hated each other, personally. Each of them had staff members who recognized that the U.S. / France relationship was important enough that their personal feelings could not be allowed to get in the way, so the relationship was delegated to underlings and the two primaries rarely spoke to one another at all. That should have been the model for U.S. / Israel from 2008-2016.
You can support Israel without supporting the current leader of the country. I wouldn't call Trump an ally of the Jews. He, at best, is an opportunist who will cozy up to anyone who he thinks will make him richer or more powerful. He's had white supremacists as advisors after all. He also has a knack for admiring authoritarian world leaders(Netanyahu might not be as far along that spectrum as Kim Jon Un or Putin, but he does tend towards the more authoritarian side of things) Also remember one of his biggest supporters in Congress buys into all sorts of antisemitic conspiracy theories (MTG).
Is Donald Trump an Anti-Semite?
A revealing new interview peels back yet another layer.
Trump and A History of Presidential Anti-Semitism
As with so many Trump blunders, he is apparently ignorant of the history and nature of anti-Semitism in America.
historynewsnetwork.org
On a long enough timeline, nowhere is anyone's original homeland. And prior to the founding of the modern state of Israel, the last time it had truly belonged to them was over 2000 years ago. Saying that's a good enough reason to say that they rightfully own it and that, therefore, it should be given back to them is an...interesting position for an American to take, considering parts of this country still belonged to someone else less than two hundred years ago. Hell, it was an interesting position for a lot of Europeans to take, given how much land has changed hands over the continent's history.
What's the statute of limitations on stealing a country?
Humans are the most territorial beings on the planet, so much so that the Palestinians would rather see Israel wiped off the face of the Earth than give up some of their land------human nature.
Blaming "the Palestinians" for Hamas is no different than blaming "the Jews" for what the Israeli government does.
A majority of the Palestinian people are simply more concerned with getting Israel to stop occupying land outside its recognized borders than with what happens to Israel itself after that.
A majority of the Palestinian people are simply more concerned with getting Israel to stop occupying land outside its recognized borders than with what happens to Israel itself after that.