Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

[wonko the sane?]

No, I don't think so either. I'm pretty sure he was just here to gloat about how his "team" "won", and complain that we weren't willing to take a serial liars word at face value and that stripping away humans rights was a legitimate vantage point for opinion.

Nothing of value, no actual conversation: just more mindless noise because his "team" "won" and now he's allowed to be an ass about it. TV said so.

 

[Deathy G1]

I would never use a slur against another person. I was raised better than that. I also would never wish anyone dead for anything, let alone something as trivial as an opposing viewpoint.

I said this over DM to Magnus when they reached out to me to apologize for what’s gone on in this thread, and I’ll say it here to clear the air:

I know people don't agree with my choices, and that's ok with me. I shouldn't have joined the conversation in the first place, as I don't really think I can articulate my positions effectively enough for a debate on ground I should have known was going to be unfriendly. I don't think that Trump is a good person, and I concur that he is a convicted criminal and did incite (or at least failed to discourage) a potential coup. That all being said, I feel like he has my family's best interests in mind, even if it's just because ours align with his.

We need to rely far less on China in my opinion, and I'm taking the risk that his plans will work out without punishing the American people too much. I know prices may go up, but hopefully it won't be as bad as people say. I just feel like we need to try. If we are all wrong, then we Trump voters have no one to blame but ourselves.

My family has also been personally affected by violence from undocumented immigrant gangs. Because of this, I also support a firmer stance on this issue. I have friends and family who are documented immigrants and every single one of them voted for Trump based on this issue alone.

—

I’ve been posting on the Allspark since the beginning. I even had an account on the old EZBoard. I no longer feel welcome here. After what’s been said to me in public and private, even interacting in non-political areas no longer feels comfortable for me. I think it’s time for a hiatus. I will probably lurk now and then as old habits die hard, but I doubt I’ll be posting for a long time. After 25 years, this doesn’t feel like home anymore.

 

[Ungnome]

I was thinking of Rudy Giuliani today because I was thinking that for the last few months Elon Musk should've been thinking of Rudy Giuliani. And Michael Cohen, of course. Trump is fire. No one touches him long without getting burned.

Difference is Musk is JUST as bad as Trump and seems to have Trump's asbestos-lined personality. No matter what vile thing Musk does, it seems to not affect his popularity much. He has the added benefit of running two successful companies. Both of which are largely successful IN SPITE OF HIS ANTICS, not because of them. The managment teams of both SpaceX and Tesla have found ways to mitigate many of Musk's impulses, though that seems to be slipping at Tesla.(QC at Tesla has been going downhill for a decade)

 

[Axaday]

I would never use a slur against another person. I was raised better than that. I also would never wish anyone dead for anything, let alone something as trivial as an opposing viewpoint.

I said this over DM to Magnus when they reached out to me to apologize for what’s gone on in this thread, and I’ll say it here to clear the air:

I know people don't agree with my choices, and that's ok with me. I shouldn't have joined the conversation in the first place, as I don't really think I can articulate my positions effectively enough for a debate on ground I should have known was going to be unfriendly. I don't think that Trump is a good person, and I concur that he is a convicted criminal and did incite (or at least failed to discourage) a potential coup. That all being said, I feel like he has my family's best interests in mind, even if it's just because ours align with his.

We need to rely far less on China in my opinion, and I'm taking the risk that his plans will work out without punishing the American people too much. I know prices may go up, but hopefully it won't be as bad as people say. I just feel like we need to try. If we are all wrong, then we Trump voters have no one to blame but ourselves.

My family has also been personally affected by violence from undocumented immigrant gangs. Because of this, I also support a firmer stance on this issue. I have friends and family who are documented immigrants and every single one of them voted for Trump based on this issue alone.

—

I’ve been posting on the Allspark since the beginning. I even had an account on the old EZBoard. I no longer feel welcome here. After what’s been said to me in public and private, even interacting in non-political areas no longer feels comfortable for me. I think it’s time for a hiatus. I will probably lurk now and then as old habits die hard, but I doubt I’ll be posting for a long time. After 25 years, this doesn’t feel like home anymore.

This is a much better post.

I think when you say "something as trivial as an opposing viewpoint", though, you are still not really reading the room. The poster that sent you the angry PM (the one we know about publicly) feels like a central characteristic is being threatened by Trump's movement. Thinking of it as a trivial choice is a privilege they don't have.

You might give more detail on how you've been personally affected by violence from undocumented immigrant gangs. Aside from drug-runners, which would meet the term, sneaking across the border back and forth, I have been under the impression that they were a fantasy. I don't understand how they would operate full-time in an identifiable way within the United States, particularly in the state where you appear to live where violent CANADIANS seem more likely than Mexicans.

 

[Ultra Magnus13]

Yes, all of this.

Honestly, it is better that Deathy flounced before he got comfortable and started throwing around slurs, openly wishing minority Allsparkers dead and so on. Never let a deadly infection spread untreated.

I don't think Deathy was going to do all of that.

He wasn't, but they have found someone the board has tacitly endorsed as ok to attack, and built him up as the villainous caricature of the dumb, hateful, racist, bigot, when he has given no indication of any of these things.

When you ask yourself "how could we have lost to Trump?" Look in the mirror. What an absolute embarrassment.

 

[M. Virion]

For the record I never wished harm on Deathy, nor would I. The entirety of my DM was 1 title and 1 sentence, comprised of "get hugged" and "I've lost all respect I had for you." Or some close variation of that, I wrote it angry and deleted it/blocked Deathy immediately after, so I don't recall word for word, and I can't check it.

And yeah, my existence is not a trivial opposing viewpoint. The Republican party platform is one of attempting to legislate trans people out of existence under the guise of 'protecting kids.'

I can't make you care about others, and I'm tired of trying to get people to care about others. So I said what I said. Which was essentially a very rude goodbye, which I stand by.

I just don't have the energy to play fake civility with people who keep electing folks who'd love to force me back into the closet, AT BEST. Over the last few years a growing number of Republicans, especially of Trump's wing of it, have been very open about calling for the eradication of trans people.

How am I meant to smile at people voting for that

 

[Pale Rider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1856742642060857754

 

[Ungnome]

We need to rely far less on China in my opinion, and I'm taking the risk that his plans will work out without punishing the American people too much. I know prices may go up, but hopefully it won't be as bad as people say. I just feel like we need to try. If we are all wrong, then we Trump voters have no one to blame but ourselves.

My family has also been personally affected by violence from undocumented immigrant gangs. Because of this, I also support a firmer stance on this issue. I have friends and family who are documented immigrants and every single one of them voted for Trump based on this issue

I will agree that we need to rely less on China and that we need a secure border, but I will strongly disagree that Trumps policies will be effective in either of those and I feel that the collateral damage caused by what he has proposed will be far greater than the benefits of implementing them.

Also his OTHER policies could affect me directly in ways that, at the very least, could affect my mental health and at worst could lead me to jail time or at the mercy of violent thugs all for daring to express who I am.

 

[Pale Rider]

Biden’s already doing something about our reliance on China with the CHIPS Act. It's a big push to make more tech here in the US, especially important stuff like chips for electronics and military gear.

Instead of just raising prices with tariffs, it invests in building up our own production, creating jobs, and making us less dependent on imports from places like China.

 

[Ungnome]

And Trump wants to repeal said act.

 

[Spotti]

And all the merchandise that he sells is made in China. You'd think a "billionaire" could easily manufacture said merchandise in the US, but no. Even the Bible he's selling is made in China.

 

[NovaSaber]

I know people don't agree with my choices, and that's ok with me.

Is it?
Let's see what actually came between the post where you vagueposted about your reason for voting for the fascist and the post where you said you were leaving, then:
One person directly harmed by the choice saying so with justified anger.
One person factually stating that the fascist had committed a crime others had been executed for,
Several people presuming your reason (and making the most generous possible assumption about what it might be) and saying that reason was factually incorrect. One of them also used a mild insult.
(And some posts not even directly relating, of course.)

Stuff from after that obviously doesn't count.
All responses to you from before that were responding to the suggestion that this thread's title should "respect" the person you voted for, not to the vote itself. (And even the later ones were colored by that suggestion.)

Convicted or not, the Orange Skull is guilty of (and has openly admitted to) crimes which do in fact fall into the category generally considered "traitorous" (a category broader than the legal definition of "treason").
So any suggestion that it's "not neutral" for the thread title to call him such is false, and comes across as a call for showing bias toward him.

I don't think that Trump is a good person, and I concur that he is a convicted criminal and did incite (or at least failed to discourage) a potential coup.

Then he belongs in prison.

We need to rely far less on China in my opinion, and I'm taking the risk that his plans will work out without punishing the American people too much. I know prices may go up, but hopefully it won't be as bad as people say.

We are talking about the potential tariff policies of a man who appears to be incapable of understanding how tariffs even work.

He talks about them like he thinks they're paid by the exporting country, not by the importer. Even though it's been repeatedly explained to him that that is incorrect.

If he won't even acknowledge the reality of who pays the tariffs, he won't make any other sensible decisions regarding them either.

 

[wonko the sane?]

And trump is already hinting at a third term.

 

[Corvus]

something as trivial as an opposing viewpoint.

What part of you is failing to understand that threats to a person's existence aren't trivial?

 

[KidTDragon]

What part of you is failing to understand that threats to a person's existence aren't trivial?

The part that doesn't care about things that don't impact him personally.

 

[Axaday]

If he won't even acknowledge the reality of who pays the tariffs, he won't make any other sensible decisions regarding them either.

When asked about the cost of childcare, Trump's answer was that it won't matter. His tariffs are going to make our country so wealthy it won't matter what things cost. That giant influx of cash will be coming from inside the United States. He isn't failing to acknowledge the reality of who pays the tariffs. He DOES NOT BELIEVE IT.

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

When he talks about "our country", he only means "the wealthy people who pay attention to me". He does not care about anyone or anything else.

 

[Pale Rider]

I really can't wait for my first tariff-funded stimulus check. Trump's strategy for wealth redistribution sounds just swell.

 

[Pale Rider]

FB friend:

Donald Trump doesn't worry about putting completely unqualified people in charge of the DoD, the FDA, the CDC, etc because he himself never had to learn anything and he never paid a price for that.

He puts zero value on qualifications and expertise, and his fans are the same, despite their grossly dishonest claims of being concerned about Kamala Harris's qualifications. As a general rule, when a right-winger expresses "concerns" about anyone's qualifications, that person is always a woman or a minority.

 

[NovaSaber]

Really think that the only way DOGE could live up to its purported purpose would be if the first thing it did was eliminate itself, and obviously I didn't expect that, but I also didn't expect the first thing I heard about them doing to be this: