Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

[abates]

I feel like that is not going to succeed purely on the fact that it was something he did before he became president and therefore it could not be an official act he did while president.

But what do I know? I'm not a supreme court justice paid off by the rich.

 

[Ungnome]

Yea, as bad as this decision is, there's still a LOT they can get Trump on, both at state level and nationally. The guy has been a crook for like 60 years, he was only president for 4. Also the immunity is limited to 'official duties', which while on its own is absolutely HORRIBLE, not all the criminal activity he has been charged with while he was president could be considered 'official duty'.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

This ruling feels both extremely vague and extremely specific at the same time. “Official Duties” , in conjunction with the generally vague “on paper” details, definitely gives an undue amount of “insulation” from consequence. On the other hand, by that same token, it DOES clarify that personal business (like the fraud) should (in any sane world) NOT be “official duty” of a president or candidate.

My take is that this will probably gut the subversion case against Trump. And with Judge Cannon moving like molasses in winter, I feel this new ruling is just going to make her run even slower. THAT SAID…there should still remain significant material with the gross negligence of his document handling for that issue to continue moving forward (eventually…).

But I don’t see how (in my theoretical sane world) this would impact the fraud conviction, since most of done BEFORE he was elected, and covering up a payment to a porn star certainly does NOT fall under the purview of “official duties”.

 

[wonko the sane?]

It's going to impact the fraud convictions because trump and his howler monkeys will continue to scream about it being a witch hunt then point to the supreme court ruling as supporting that. Trump is going to keep doing what he's doing, but he's going to make it look like all the lies he's spouting are supported by the court. It's just an appeal to authority play... but it will work.

 

[Rhinox]

Pretty much. The state charges he's been found guilty of simply aren't effected at all by this ruling. Honestly, hiding the top secret papers shouldn't be either. But, his lawyers will continue to stall for the November miracle.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Honestly, I'm looking forward to seeing the polls once the supreme court ruling sinks in. Biden was already ahead in most trustworthy polls lately (and please keep in mind: those polls are still inherently biased towards republicans.) and the implications of "king trump" is not lost on the majority of the population.

Sure, the cult is probably as hyped about this as they could be: but they were already going to turn out in massive numbers.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

This ruling does limit what evidence can be used in cases that otherwise don't fall under the 'official duties' standard.

Trump's lawyers are already going for it in the Manhattan case.

Trump’s legal team filed a letter Monday seeking to challenge the former president’s conviction after the Supreme Court ruled that that presidents have an absolute immunity from prosecution for core official acts.

The former president’s lawyers argued that the ruling confirmed their position that Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg should not have been allowed to offer evidence at the trial regarding Trump’s “official acts” and, as a result, the jury’s guilty verdict should be set aside.
[...]
In their letter Monday, Trump’s attorneys pointed to evidence elicited during the trial from Trump’s time in office, including testimony from former Hope Hicks, who served as communications director in the White House; tweets that Trump sent while in office; and phone records involving Trump while he was president.

Call it a Hail Mary, but...

The Manhattan District Attorney’s Office says it is open to delaying Donald Trump’s sentencing to brief his motion to set aside his criminal conviction on business fraud charges in the wake of Monday’s Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity.

edit: Aaaaaaand the judge has agreed.

Donald Trump will not be sentenced on his business fraud conviction until September, a New York judge ruled Tuesday in the wake of Monday’s Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity.
[...]
Trump was scheduled to be sentenced on July 11. Judge Juan Merchan said the former president will now be sentenced on September 18, “if such is still necessary.”

"if such is still necessary."

 

[Paladin]

Judge in Trump's hush money trial delays sentencing following Supreme Court immunity ruling

The hearing, previously scheduled for July 11, will be delayed until at least Sept. 18.

www.nbcnews.com

He's walking. When nothing happens come September he'll coast to victory crowing his success over the "RIGGED COURTS."

 

[KidTDragon]

Un-f***ing-believable.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Judge in Trump's hush money trial delays sentencing following Supreme Court immunity ruling

The hearing, previously scheduled for July 11, will be delayed until at least Sept. 18.

www.nbcnews.com

He's walking. When nothing happens come September he'll coast to victory crowing his success over the "RIGGED COURTS."

Other side of the coin: His sentencing will now be EVEN CLOSER to the election, reminding everyone he's a ******* convicted felon. Trump knows he can't get out of this, so he's just delaying AGAIN, because that's all he has.

 

[abates]

He's walking. When nothing happens come September he'll coast to victory crowing his success over the "RIGGED COURTS."

I'm just going to leave this here, because by no means is it a given that Trump is going to win.

 

[Pocket]

Geez, if those numbers hold, Kennedy's gonna be the most successful third party candidate since Perot. In any other election cycle, I'd assume he'll be stealing all those votes from the Republican front-runner. This year, though...

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

I'm just going to leave this here, because by no means is it a given that Trump is going to win.
View attachment 21889

Show me polls in the battleground states, and we'll talk.

 

[Paladin]

imagine if this got a tenth the coverage of Joe Biden's age.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1808301075524399350

News outlets are going to cakewalk America into fascism because it's better for ratings.

 

[Teufel]

I mean, that did get coverage in 2016. When the accuser flaked out. Multiple times. No showed an announced press conferences Etc. If there had been even the slightest hint of credibility the press would've happily ran with it.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-dropped-230770

 

[Steevy Maximus]

I mean, that did get coverage in 2016. When the accuser flaked out. Multiple times. No showed an announced press conferences Etc. If there had been even the slightest hint of credibility the press would've happily ran with it.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-dropped-230770

Given Trump's...proclivities...I'm still quite willing to believe that Trump was into the same shady junk as Epstein. It still would NOT surprise me if Trump (or an associate) was involved in Epstein's highly suspicious "suicide".

But until someone reliable comes forth. that's all this will remain...suspicions.

 

[abates]

I think the written confirmation that Epstein and Trump were great buddies and phoned each other a lot is new?

 

[Paladin]

Behold America's King.

Trump’s alleged ‘sexual proclivities’ graphically detailed in new Epstein documents

The new papers contain ‘incendiary claims’ about the former president

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Rhinox]

And it matters not. Unless there's video of him diddling a child, Trump appears to be teflon when it comes to allegations of sexual assault/rape. At least in the court of public opinion. Obviously he's had less luck in civil court.
But, my point is that his followers simply don't care. They'll hand wave it away, claim it's BS or from biases sources, perform whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to ignore the fact that they're following a dedicated sexual predator.

 

[Pale Rider]

FB friend:

It's kind of fascinating that a politician can overcome a scandal by simply refusing to be embarrassed about it. Now, it's easy to say that this only applies to Trump, but I'm not so sure. Bush did the same thing with his war crimes: simply refuse to apologize or back down, and eventually people start normalizing it and acting as if it's OK.

Of course, Bush is a Republican just like Trump, so one could surmise that this technique only applies to Republicans, presumably because the Republican base has ... how should I put it ... a malleable attitude toward morality and the truth.

If we've learned anything from the wildly varying reactions to Biden's brain farts (losing his train of thought while speaking) and Trump's much more troubling brain farts (literally confusing two people that he's known for years, which is a classic sign of senility), it's that people think senile statements don't sound senile if you're confident and forceful when you're saying them.

The problem with treating Adolf Hitler like a cartoon villain is that once you think of someone as a cartoon character, then NOTHING a real person does will ever make you see the parallels, because a real person is not a cartoon character.

If you know your history, there are remarkably strong parallels between Trump and Hitler, but most people still think it's "over the top" to make that comparison, because you can't compare a real person to a cartoon villain.