Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Sure, but he thinks it's shrewd planning. Remember that he doesn't think like a leader or a president, he thinks like a conman and a wannabe mafioso. He doesn't care about inspiring the troops or earning their respect, he just wants them to do what he says and evade getting in trouble for it.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
He may also just think it's "boring military stuff" - remember this is the guy who couldn't even sit through 30 minutes of briefings unless they talked -about- him.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
It probably is going to be boring military stuff. My guess is nothing historic and dramatic is going to happen and this meeting will end up being a footnote among the month's news, if not the week's news.
 

Fullstrength Motleypuss

Well-known member
Citizen
https://levremembers.substack.com/p...bwUDnDGrkW2j3eIViA_aem_uRv8qLrrnmXf9RZiBWogLQ

If anybody thinks we are going to have another free and fair election in this country I've got the deed to the Brooklyn Bridge right here and I'll cut you a killer deal on it.

Remember, Hitler did exactly this with his generals in 1935, making the swear their oaths to him and not to Germany and declaring the existing constitution void.
 

Corvus

Active member
Citizen
Trump will now be attending.

Trump to attend gathering of top generals, upending last-minute plans

Hundreds of top military officers and staff have been summoned to Virginia on short notice for a speech by Pete Hegseth. Trump decided this weekend to attend the meeting, adding new security concerns.

President Donald Trump has decided he’s going to the last-minute global gathering of the nation’s top generals in Quantico, Virginia, that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered last week.

Trump’s appearance not only upstages Hegseth’s plans but adds new security concerns to the massive and nearly unprecedented military event.

“We have confirmation from the White House that POTUS is now attending the speech on Tuesday,” according to a planning document sent Saturday that was viewed by The Washington Post.

Notice went out to offices around the Pentagon that the decision will “significantly change the security posture” of the speech, set for Tuesday morning.

The addition of the president at Quantico will now put the Secret Service in charge of securing the event. Hundreds of the military’s top commanding generals and admirals, ranked one-star and above, along with their senior enlisted leaders were ordered to attend by Hegseth last week. The orders provided no reason for the event and initially raised concern among attendees and military officials that he was gathering the group to inform them of mass firings or demotions.

Last week, The Post first reported that Hegseth was ordering all of the generals in command positions to Quantico to hear him speak for less than an hour about military standards and his vision for a “warrior ethos,” but the now expanded visit from the president could change that schedule — and add a more politicized tenor to the gathering.

“It’s the mother of all photo ops,” said Eugene R. Fidell, a military law expert at Yale Law School. The potential for the event to be politicized, and add to the politicization of the military, “is tremendously concerning and should be tremendously concerning to the American people.”

It is estimated that the cost of flying, lodging and transporting all of the military leaders — some of whom will be traveling from the Middle East, Europe and the Indo-Pacific — will be in the millions of dollars. The event has also raised security concerns about having all the top leadership in one place, particularly given that Tuesday is the end of the fiscal year, and if the government shuts down, it could leave key personnel stranded from their units.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the president’s travel for Tuesday’s speech.

Hegseth has committed to reducing the general officer corps by 20 percent and has fired without cause roughly two dozen senior officers — a disproportionate number of them female general or flag officers — since he was sworn in.

Hegseth is seriously considering reducing the rank of the top commanding generals at several top posts from four to three stars and proposing a significant consolidation of the combatant commands, which are major regional headquarters focused on areas such as Africa, the Middle East and the Indo-Pacific, several officials familiar with that planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations told The Post.
All of those moves come as the administration’s new national defense strategy is expected to significantly shift attention and resources away from preparing for a conflict with China to sharply focus on homeland defense and military use at home.

On Saturday, Trump in a Truth Social post called for the Pentagon to send troops to what he deemed “War ravaged” Portland, Oregon, authorizing them to use “Full Force” to protect Immigration and Customs Enforcement sites that have drawn sporadic protesters. The order was not clear as to whether he intended to send troops under federal control or activate troops under state control, but any deployment could be challenged in court. Oregon Gov. Tina Kotek (D) said she doesn’t believe Trump has the authority to deploy federal troops on state soil and is working with the attorney general on a potential response.

Trump’s deployment order also comes just days after he signed an executive order directing the nation’s law enforcement and military capabilities to be used against “domestic terrorism and organized political violence,” an edict that gives the administration sweeping powers to investigate and prosecute a broad array of political opponents.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
Remember, Hitler did exactly this with his generals in 1935, making the swear their oaths to him and not to Germany and declaring the existing constitution void.
Except you're leaving out a bunch of context on it. I saw a very nice and interesting writeup on what happened around then a couple days ago, but I didn't think to put the link anywhere and now I can't find it again(after spending way too long looking for it again). But:

1) The military at the time was very aristocratic, very "Good ol' boys" and HEAVILY resented Hitler's brownshirts flouncing around talking about how they'd gain power, or anyone external intruding on how they were running things or talking about expanding it.
2) When Hitler took power, he eliminated people who HAD been pushing for changes against what the Wehrmacht generals were wanting, in addition to shooting his own guy who had been advocating for replacing the army with the brownshirts, so he made the generals happy and indebted to him
3) THEN he called them in for that oathtaking, after having basically backed them up and giving them what they wanted, and promising them the spoils.

We may or may not have a "Good ol' boys" club at the top, but the external pressures changing things in the military only came AFTER Trump took office, so it's the reverse of the situation with the wehrmacht in that regard. The current armed forces doesn't HAVE any high-ups that they were concerned about making bad changes(excluding Trump and his admin itself)

Not to mention Trump won't even be there.... you think he'd pass up the ego-boosting he'd get by having the generals sear an oath to him in front of him, even if the optics weren't good?

*edit* well the above post knocks out my last point, but I still feel it doesn't change the rest.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
If this meeting turns out to be a pointless nothingburger I'll be calling for a total ban on Hitler comparisons forever.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
I saw a very nice and interesting writeup on what happened around then a couple days ago, but I didn't think to put the link anywhere and now I can't find it again(after spending way too long looking for it again).
Does your browser give you a way to scroll through a list of all the pages you've visited recently? Firefox does and I find that very useful for hunting down specific pages I didn't think to bookmark, especially if I can remember a specific word for the title or narrow the visit down to a day or two.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
So it's going to be an angry old man yelling at clouds in front of the entire US military top brass.

Any information leaked from this will just be donald trump talking out his brasshole.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
As far as we know there still aren't any plans to have Trump speak at all. Just Hegseth. And all he's rumored to be talking about is his usual "warrior ethos" stuff.

If there's some actual news out of this, my expectation is that it'll just be talk about shifting focus back to our own hemisphere. Venezuela may or may not be mentioned by name, but that would be what's meant by focusing on our hemisphere. Marco Rubio really really really wants to intervene in Venezuela and has for a long time now, so that is something to watch for.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
Does your browser give you a way to scroll through a list of all the pages you've visited recently? Firefox does and I find that very useful for hunting down specific pages I didn't think to bookmark, especially if I can remember a specific word for the title or narrow the visit down to a day or two.
Unfortunately wouldn't help in this case... I came across it in a infosec.exchange thread on the general server timeline, sometime Thursday or Friday. There wouldn't be a direct URL in my history for that, since I use the advanced view on all the Mastodon instances I follow, and the poster wasn't one of the folks I normally read when their stuff comes up(so no idea who to search for). I thought I remembered one of the folk I do follow boosting it, but I checked my timeline and didn't see it, and none of the people I thought might have boosted it had either. Sucks because it was a really nice essay that laid out bits I hadn't heard before about the whole deal.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
Seems I spoke too soon! Now that I'm back on my work computer, I checked, and I DID have it in my history.

https://infosec.exchange/@masek/115266655221993161 is the start of the thread.

How the (German) Nazis did control the military?​

No love affair

The relationship between the Nazis and the German military was no love affair right from the start.

When Hitler and his brown-shirted buddies stormed onto Germany’s political stage, the mood in the Reichswehr officer corps was about as cheerful as a CEO when the tax auditors arrive.

The Reichswehr liked to see itself as the last bastion of dignity and tradition: aristocratic accents, stiff uniforms, and the comforting smell of pipe tobacco in the officers’ mess. The Nazis, by contrast, looked like a gang of brawling soccer hooligans who had somehow stolen a flag factory.

For the generals, these upstarts were noisy, unruly, and far too fond of parades with bad choreography. Worst of all, their SA goons had this brilliant idea of replacing the professional army with a “people’s militia.” To the Reichswehr, that sounded about as appealing as handing over the keys of the national treasury to a kindergarten. In their minds, the army was their exclusive club, and the Nazis were the drunk guys banging on the door.

The crisis

By 1934, the tension between the Nazis and the Reichswehr had turned into a full-blown soap opera. On one side, you had the Reichswehr generals, clinging to their exclusive professional army like it was the last decent bottle of wine in Germany. On the other side, you had Ernst Röhm and his SA, a few million strong, marching around in cheap uniforms and loudly demanding to become the new people’s army.

Röhm’s dream? To shove the old officer corps aside and hand over the armory keys to his beer-hall stormtroopers. To the Reichswehr, that was basically a nightmare where their prestigious army got replaced by an armed fan club. The generals were already skeptical of Hitler, but Röhm’s ambitions turned skepticism into muttered coup fantasies.

Meanwhile, Hitler was caught in the middle. He needed the army if he ever wanted to make Germany great again, but he also owed his rise to the SA, who thought they’d get rewarded with shiny new ranks and sharp toys. Add to that a German economy still wobbly, political elites breathing down Hitler’s neck, and former war hero and president Hindenburg (who was more than ready to let the generals “restore order” if things got messy), and you had a pressure cooker about to blow.

A "balanced" approach

So, summer 1934: Hitler finally decides it’s makeover time. Out with the brown-shirted riffraff, in with the polished brass buttons of the Reichswehr, but not without making everyone sweat first.

First, he takes out Ernst Röhm, his old pal turned liability. Röhm had been swaggering around, telling anyone who’d listen that the SA would soon replace the Reichswehr. That kind of talk made the generals grind their monocles in frustration, so Hitler solved the problem the quick way: Röhm and most of the SA leadership were invited to a “meeting,” which turned out to be more bullets (without points) than minutes.

But Hitler, never one for half measures, didn’t stop there. He used the Night of the Long Knives to also eliminate other inconvenient figures, like General Kurt von Schleicher, the former chancellor who still had many, many friends in uniform and might have been tempted to play the “bring back stability” card. Conveniently for him, Schleicher and his wife ended up very dead, and suddenly there were fewer alternative leaders for the army to rally around. The message to the generals: in this regime, accidents were very well organized.

And just to make sure the Reichswehr brass didn’t get too cocky, Hitler also started “discovering” juicy scandals and about the current army leadership. Nothing like a little blackmail to keep the top brass from daydreaming about coups. The message was clear: I can get rid of your enemies, but I can just as easily make you my next target.

The blood oath

After the Night of the Long Knives, the Reichswehr brass were breathing a little easier. Röhm was gone, the SA was declawed, but Schleicher was six feet under. For once, the officers could sip their cognac without worrying that tomorrow a million half-trained stormtroopers would be knocking at the barracks door.

And then, right on cue, old President Hindenburg kicked the bucket in August 1934. That left a gaping hole at the top of the state, which Hitler happily filled by merging the offices of president and chancellor into the snazzy new title of Führer und Reichskanzler. But Hitler wanted more than a title; he wanted the army’s soul on paper.

Enter the oath of loyalty. Before 1934, soldiers swore allegiance to the constitution and the state. Boring stuff. Now, they were made to swear a personal oath: not to Germany, not to some abstract law, but directly to Adolf Hitler. Think of it as a political marriage contract written in blood: “I vow to obey you, personally, unto death, no take-backs.”

For the generals, it was a devil’s bargain. They got their exclusive status confirmed, the SA permanently out of the way, and promises of rearmament and shiny new divisions. In return, they chained themselves to a man who had just demonstrated he could shoot his friends and his rivals on the same weekend.

From that moment on, the Reichswehr was no longer just an army of the state. It was Hitler’s army. And once you’ve promised eternal obedience in front of God, his version of history wouldn’t allow for ‘just kidding.’

Carrot and stick

Once the oath had them hooked, Hitler kept the Reichswehr (now rebranded as the Wehrmacht and with shiny new toys) on a short leash. His method? The classic carrot-and-stick routine, except the carrot was dipped in gold and the stick came with a firing squad.

The carrots first: Hitler showered his generals with money, titles, and shiny bits of metal. Promotions came fast, medals were handed out like candy, and the gifts? Often loot straight out of conquered lands. Estates in Poland, art from France, cash and jewelry plundered from occupied territories or stolen from Jewish families: Hitler had a whole empire of “rewards” that didn’t actually cost him anything. For the generals, it was like Christmas morning, only every present was stolen from the neighbors.

And the stick? Oh, that was very real. Generals who got too independent, too critical, or simply too unlucky often discovered that loyalty to Hitler had an expiration date. Some were forced into early retirement, others were publicly disgraced, and quite a few ended up dead. In fact, Hitler personally had more German generals executed than all the Allies combined managed to kill during the entire war. That’s not micromanagement; that’s murder as a management style.

The result was an officer corps living in a constant state of whiplash: one day you’re sipping champagne on your new stolen estate, the next day you’re branded a traitor and quietly “removed.” Greed and fear, the two leashes Hitler knew how to pull best.

Lessons learned

In the end, the story of the Nazis and the Reichswehr is simple: the generals started out sneering at Hitler, then let him shoot their rivals, swore undying loyalty to him, and finally grew fat on stolen loot while living in terror of his next purge. They thought they were using him, turns out, he was using them, until the Wehrmacht wasn’t “Germany’s army” anymore, but just another trophy in Hitler’s wardrobe of horrors.
The historical context of HItler and the German armed forces - hopefully others will find it illuminating too.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
It does highlight how much Trump's cultists/ICEtroopers look like "a gang of brawling soccer hooligans who had somehow stolen a flag factory."

So who's the Röhm in this analogy? Hegseth?
 

G.B.Blackrock

Well-known member
Citizen

EPSTEIN, Donald. They said EPSTEIN
Yeah, even as a distraction, this one's pretty odd. Who even knew that there WERE classified Earhart files, let alone were asking for them? And it's not shock value, guaranteed to rile people up, like his military takeovers of Democratic cities....
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
It might be an indication of how deep he has to dig to find something not connected to himself or epstein. I'm sure there's a bunch of historians and enthusiasts that are praising this sudden windfall: but it still won't work.
 


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