Timey Wimey Business- a thread for Doctor Who

Shadewing

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The shorter episode counts certainly don't help. As many issues as I have with Chris Chibnall, I do think that the Flux season was at least decently paced. And that was six episodes. RTD is working with eight a year.

Season 1 felt like he had planned a tradtional 13-ish ep season, and then after everything was planned and written; learned he wasn't getting that many. So had to throw away half and then try to make the rest work. Season 2, at least feels like he had planned and wrote for the 8 episodes... he just still wasnt good at it yet. And yeah, Flux is a pretty good story, despite lenght and chibnal. Its not great, but it was kinda his best season.
 

PrimalxConvoy

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I'll admit, I don't think I've ever even heard of Death in Paradise. And looking it up, it's been running since 2011. That kind of says more about me than about the show, really. I'm sure it's good, I've just never even heard anyone reference it before. There are definitely some holes in my British TV knowledge.

The Great British Bake Off definitely counts, though. That one even I've heard of. That one has made a splash, and gets a few references here and there in other media.

In my head, the condition I'm using is "What show makes the BBC the most profit?" What show, on it's own, brings in money for the company from the general puiblic. Not from TV licensing fees or taxes, or government grants or subsidies, or from private donors. What show makes the most money, on the virtue of being a show itself. Merchandise and commercials included. What show are people voting with their wallets for? I guess some of the reality shows they license out to other countries may be the most profitable. Since they probably just collect the licensing fee and let the other countries make their own versions of the reality shows. Pure profit.

But, I feel like Doctor Who is no slouch either, due to toy and merchandise sales. I feel like just by virtue of being able to sell stuff like Sonic Screwdrivers and officially licensed bowties and whatnot, it's probably up there as one of the shows that's bringing in the most money for the BBC. But, again, I could be wrong.

I'll admit, I'm kind of brushing off the nature documentaries a bit. Because they're kind of playing by different rules than the other shows. The other shows are all "entertainment". Even the reality shows, which probably have a leg up in being "profitable" by virtue of being cheaper to make. But, the documentaries are all "educational", which means they likely get funded and make their money back in different ways. It's a different game being played between the "educational" and "entertainment" shows. And I feel like it's comparing apples to oranges a bit. Maybe that's moving the goalposts too much, though. I'm not sure. But, I'm focusing mostly on the "entertainment" side of things, in my own head.
I'm not sure if the BBC gets different or additional funding for documentaries. Unless they're produced in partnership with someone (like the recent Doctor Who eps with Disney), they are wholly funded by the licence fee.
 

G.B.Blackrock

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The Great British Bake Off definitely counts, though. That one even I've heard of. That one has made a splash, and gets a few references here and there in other media.

In my head, the condition I'm using is "What show makes the BBC the most profit?" What show, on it's own, brings in money for the company from the general puiblic.
By this condition, I'm compelled to suggest that Bake Off doesn't count. It's not been a BBC show for quite a few years now (Channel 4 is a commercial network), and thus doesn't make them any profit.
 

G.B.Blackrock

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I'll admit, I don't think I've ever even heard of Death in Paradise. And looking it up, it's been running since 2011. That kind of says more about me than about the show, really. I'm sure it's good, I've just never even heard anyone reference it before. There are definitely some holes in my British TV knowledge.
With respect, your not having heard of Death in Paradise simply can't be a disqualifier. The show's generated not one, but TWO spin-offs, one in another country entirely (Australia). It's doing quite well, and making money for those who put it together (not just the BBC, but definitely including them).
 

ZakuConvoy

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With respect, your not having heard of Death in Paradise simply can't be a disqualifier. The show's generated not one, but TWO spin-offs, one in another country entirely (Australia). It's doing quite well, and making money for those who put it together (not just the BBC, but definitely including them).
Oh, I'm not disqualifying it. I'm just not able to comment on it one way or another. I've, personally, never heard of it. But, there's a lot of stuff I've never heard of before. It hasn't penetrated my bubble. But, it could be very popular, and I'm just ignorant about it. Or it could be very popular in everyplace except for the USA for whatever reason. I just don't know for sure, to be honest. It probably qualifies. It's been going on long enough. Any show that lasts for over 10 years is popular (and most likely, profitable). I just don't know if it's popular in my country or not.
By this condition, I'm compelled to suggest that Bake Off doesn't count. It's not been a BBC show for quite a few years now (Channel 4 is a commercial network), and thus doesn't make them any profit.
They would still own the rights to the name, though, right? So, they'd still be making money off of licensing out the name. It'd be like Hasbro not actually making Power Rangers toys directly, but still getting money out of letting someone else make them for them. As long as the money is still coming in for the BBC, I think it could count? But, it is a weird grey area.
 
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ZakuConvoy

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Oh. Well, then I guess it wouldn't count, then. If the BBC doesn't make money off it, it probably shouldn't count as a BBC franchise. Even if it started out as a BBC show.
 

G.B.Blackrock

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Oh, I'm not disqualifying it. I'm just not able to comment on it one way or another. I've, personally, never heard of it. But, there's a lot of stuff I've never heard of before. It hasn't penetrated my bubble. But, it could be very popular, and I'm just ignorant about it. Or it could be very popular in everyplace except for the USA for whatever reason. I just don't know for sure, to be honest. It probably qualifies. It's been going on long enough. Any show that lasts for over 10 years is popular (and most likely, profitable). I just don't know if it's popular in my country or not.

They would still own the rights to the name, though, right? So, they'd still be making money off of licensing out the name. It'd be like Hasbro not actually making Power Rangers toys directly, but still getting money out of letting someone else make them for them. As long as the money is still coming in for the BBC, I think it could count? But, it is a weird grey area.
Doubtful. It was created, and is still produced, by a company called Love Productions, not the BBC. I don't see how the BBC would have any ownership. The BBC simply aired it for its first several seasons, so any income that would pertain (and I'm not quite sure how that would even work, given that BBC doesn't air commercials, excepting to promote its own programs) would have been limited to that period.

(Sorry. I see that this has already been covered by PrimalxConvoy)
 

G.B.Blackrock

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It's perhaps worth pointing out here that the BBC currently produces rather little of its content on its own. This wasn't always true, but the costs of producing television have gone up far more than the usage fees that citizens pay in the UK to support the BBC. Thus, most productions are at least co-productions with some other company (often several companies). I imagine that this has significant implications for whatever share of profits the BBC itself enjoys.


UPDATE: I decided that, now that we're specifically talking about profits, the rules have rather changed from what I was originally talking about (not assigning blame here. If the goalposts have moved, that's at least as much from my own assumptions as down to anything anyone said, so I'm happy to accept my share of blame here). To that end, I've looked up Death in Paradise, and can now confirm that the BBC is not even one of the production companies behind it (there are a few... just none are the BBC). The BBC does commission the show, much as our networks in the US will commission shows that they don't produce. They do air the show, so there may well be income generated from shows like Death in Paradise, but I'm hesitant to go on any limb to suggest how that would work if they're not producing the show, and the network doesn't sell commercial advertising space.

For shows in which the BBC does have definite ownership (at least in part), I refer to this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Studios_Productions

Shakespeare & Hathaway: Private Investigators is quite popular, and the Strictly Come Dancing franchise (which gives us Dancing with the Stars) is an undeniable powerhouse. But there will be admittedly few shows that folks who are aren't specifically fans of British television will be aware of. If you watch PBS a lot, you'll definitely recognize some names. But that's how it has almost always been for British television, even Doctor Who. Most of it is on PBS when folks in the US are watching it.
 
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PrimalxConvoy

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It's perhaps worth pointing out here that the BBC currently produces rather little of its content on its own. This wasn't always true, but the costs of producing television have gone up far more than the usage fees that citizens pay in the UK to support the BBC. Thus, most productions are at least co-productions with some other company (often several companies). I imagine that this has significant implications for whatever share of profits the BBC itself enjoys.


UPDATE: I decided that, now that we're specifically talking about profits, the rules have rather changed from what I was originally talking about (not assigning blame here. If the goalposts have moved, that's at least as much from my own assumptions as down to anything anyone said, so I'm happy to accept my share of blame here). To that end, I've looked up Death in Paradise, and can now confirm that the BBC is not even one of the production companies behind it (there are a few... just none are the BBC). The BBC does commission the show, much as our networks in the US will commission shows that they don't produce. They do air the show, so there may well be income generated from shows like Death in Paradise, but I'm hesitant to go on any limb to suggest how that would work if they're not producing the show, and the network doesn't sell commercial advertising space.

For shows in which the BBC does have definite ownership (at least in part), I refer to this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Studios_Productions

Shakespeare & Hathaway: Private Investigators is quite popular, and the Strictly Come Dancing franchise (which gives us Dancing with the Stars) is an undeniable powerhouse. But there will be admittedly few shows that folks who are aren't specifically fans of British television will be aware of. If you watch PBS a lot, you'll definitely recognize some names. But that's how it has almost always been for British television, even Doctor Who. Most of it is on PBS when folks in the US are watching it.
However, BBC America, and some other related companies, do sell BBC (and possibly some non or semi-BBC) shows too, generating money for the BBC, I believe?
 

G.B.Blackrock

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However, BBC America, and some other related companies, do sell BBC (and possibly some non or semi-BBC) shows too, generating money for the BBC, I believe?
The logic suggested there makes sense, but Wikipedia tells me that BBC America is not, in fact, owned by the BBC (at least, not as of last year), but rather by AMC Networks. Shows produced and/or owned by the BBC would probably generate fees from AMC for use on BBC America, of course (to say nothing of the fees AMC pays for the use of the BBC name and branding, but of course those aren't tied to specific shows).

Fortunately for Death in Paradise, although I'd previously established it's not owned by the BBC, I don't know that it's aired on BBC America, anyway (I can't say that it absolutely isn't, since I've never bothered with that service), but I can confirm that it is on Britbox, which is partially-owned by BBC Studios (a subsidiary of the BBC).

So there's that....
 
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PrimalxConvoy

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The logic suggested there makes sense, but Wikipedia tells me that BBC America is not, in fact, owned by the BBC (at least, not as of last year), but rather by AMC Networks. Shows produced and/or owned by the BBC would probably generate fees from AMC for use on BBC America, of course (to say nothing of the fees AMC pays for the use of the BBC name and branding, but of course those aren't tied to specific shows).

It seems that the wiki mentions they are a joint owner of BBC America, alongside BBC Worldwide. AMC also co-owns the BBC-related Britbox in the US.
 

The Predaking

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So we started watching Doctor Who again since it is going off of Disney+.

Space Babies: Neat episode. Love the Snow effect and the change of the memory.

The Maestro: Great episode! Loved the villain here! Being one of the Toymaker's children was pretty cool. Loved that we are getting more looks into what Ruby is. Great ending, but Harbinger is still out there.

Landmine: Love this episode. Hated that we lost two of the people in it. Loved the message about War for profit.
 

G.B.Blackrock

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It seems that the wiki mentions they are a joint owner of BBC America, alongside BBC Worldwide. AMC also co-owns the BBC-related Britbox in the US.
The BBC was a joint owner of BBC America. They were bought out by AMC in 2024 (a date I specifically pointed out in my post), according to the actual BBC America entry on Wikipedia (I assume the BBC Worldwide article didn't get the update, but do note that BBC Worldwide is defunct. They're now BBC Studios).

AMC is indeed a co-owner of Britbox (with BBC Studios), but only holds a minority stake, . But they're not really relevant to this discussion. BBC (and its subsidiaries, which includes BBC Studios) is really what's at issue here.
 

PrimalxConvoy

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The BBC was a joint owner of BBC America. They were bought out by AMC in 2024 (a date I specifically pointed out in my post), according to the actual BBC America entry on Wikipedia (I assume the BBC Worldwide article didn't get the update, but do note that BBC Worldwide is defunct. They're now BBC Studios).

AMC is indeed a co-owner of Britbox (with BBC Studios), but only holds a minority stake, . But they're not really relevant to this discussion. BBC (and its subsidiaries, which includes BBC Studios) is really what's at issue here.
Well, at least the BBC receives money from shows it sells to the BBC America, plus the licence for the brand/term "BBC". If anything, it's similar to a franchise for the layman.
 


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