Star Trek: Picard

[The Predaking]

Okay, so wow. Lets talk about this week's episode. I have some issues with it, which is only the second time I have had problems with an episode this season.


The good

Spoiler

Seeing the Enterprise F! And she is commanded by Admiral Shelby! No problems with that at all. While I would have preferred Captain Harry KIm, considering Shelby's fate, I am glad that it wasn't. I am glad that we got to see this new ship and I hope that it survives to be in later shows.

And speaking of Enterprises, the D was indeed in docking bay 12! Woot! Looking absolutely amazing! The freaking brgidge loooked perfect in all of its orignal TNG glory! No more dim lights, no extra stations added like in Generations, and I hope that they rebuilt the Engineering section set, as I would love to see that! Loved Worf's comments about how the E was a superior ship. I also loved that they sort of told what happened to the Enterprise E. Worf was apparently her captain and lost the ship somehow. I would love to see a one-off show about that.

Shaw going out like a hero, while I wanted him to stay around for a spin off, was cool. I liked that he finally called her 7 when he turned the ship over to her. I wonder if her and Raffi are going to be able to do anything with the Titan.

Geordi: "Data, be positive!"
Data with a smile: "I hope we die quickly!"

The Bad

Spoiler

The Borg being the BBEG. Yeah, they had a few name drops and hints, but honestly, it doesn't make sense considering the face that Vadic talked to and ritual she used.

Shelby just showing up, giving a monolog, and then getting blasted twice in the chest. Also, RIP Shaw!

So how are our heroes going to stand up to an entire fleet of superior ships? They are most definitely "Out gunned, Out manned, Out numbered, Out planned" as the song goes. I hope that Geordi has upgraded the weapons, engines, and shields on the old girl.

And the WTF?

Spoiler

So Jack is just going to go run to the Borg for reasons? I am sorry but this is a huge plot point and the whole BBEG plot hinges on it happening, and it just happens for no reason.

The whole transporter plot is kind of nuts, but I will give it to them, that it makes sense as far as a borg plan goes. Use a slow subterfuge tactic when brute force and time travel fail.

 

[Kalidor]

Spoiler

It HAS to be the Borg though. This is the true end of the story for Picard and the crew. Picard has been connected to the Borg since nearly the very beginning when he became Locutus in season 2.

Something they stuck with and added to his story over and over again. It would be less fulfilling if it was just ignored.

Also, if it makes you feel any better

Spoiler

 

[Axaday]

Spoiler

So how are our heroes going to stand up to an entire fleet of superior ships? They are most definitely "Out gunned, Out manned, Out numbered, Out planned" as the song goes. I hope that Geordi has upgraded the weapons, engines, and shields on the old girl.

Spoiler

It wouldn't be credible, even in the Enterprise-F, for them to go take on the whole evil Starfleet. But more importantly I don't think they have a useful project over there. Stopping the threat AND rescuing Jack requires them to figure out where that Cube that is running things is. Scary as a Cube is, I like their chances better there than against all of Starfleet.

 

[Copper Bezel]

She didn't sound like Vadic. That was Alice Krige reprising her role, confirmed and credited

Thanks for checking IMDb on the idea I replied to. Your sacrifice of fifteen seconds I did not care enough to spend will be remembered.

Spoiler

Well, to refine: BBEG doesn't have to be a Changeling OR a Borg. Maybe BBEG found the Cube and manipulated the Changelings to make his plan work. But the Borg don't need Starfleet ships. The only purpose THEY would have for taking control of the fleet would be to make it stand down. And honestly? If the Borg came with 7 or 8 cubes and Picard can no longer hear them? I'm not sure they'd even be afraid of the whole Starfleet, which wouldn't USUALLY even be all together like this. I'm laying my $3 on the table and betting that the real Borg still aren't behind this.

Spoiler

Oh. Well I don't like that idea at all. I mean really, this could be another rogue mini-collective, and it'd still be "the Borg" in some sense even if only a cube's worth, I'd be okay with that. I'd also be okay with a double turn reveal that the changelings are in the driver's seat. But a third party controlling some Borg and also some changelings? I don't see the point. We'd be approaching Spiderman 3 levels of villain redundancy. And Lore and Q are dead and dealt with, so it's not like there's another better antagonist from TNG to bring into the mix. Maybe I lack imagination, and there's another box somewhere in the back they haven't opened yet, but I can't think of what it would be.

Spoiler

So Jack is just going to go run to the Borg for reasons? I am sorry but this is a huge plot point and the whole BBEG plot hinges on it happening, and it just happens for no reason.

Spoiler

"For reasons" makes it sound like this comes out of nowhere. Jack's plan has been to find out who he needs to punch in the face and go punch them in the face since the moment we met him. He wants to avoid putting others at risk and find out what's going on with his head, and he still thinks that only directly facing his enemy will allow him to do those things. Everything he's done that wasn't turning himself over has been because someone was pleading or actively restraining him not to. Now, Picard crossed a line and doesn't have any standing to bargain with him, and nobody's restraining him anymore, so he's hard back on plan A.

 

[Kalidor]

Thanks for checking IMDb on the idea I replied to. Your sacrifice of fifteen seconds I did not care enough to spend will be remembered.

Spoiler

Oh. Well I don't like that idea at all. I mean really, this could be another rogue mini-collective, and it'd still be "the Borg" in some sense even if only a cube's worth, I'd be okay with that. I'd also be okay with a double turn reveal that the changelings are in the driver's seat. But a third party controlling some Borg and also some changelings? I don't see the point. We'd be approaching Spiderman 3 levels of villain redundancy. And Lore and Q are dead and dealt with, so it's not like there's another better antagonist from TNG to bring into the mix. Maybe I lack imagination, and there's another box somewhere in the back they haven't opened yet, but I can't think of what it would be.

Spoiler

"For reasons" makes it sound like this comes out of nowhere. Jack's plan has been to find out who he needs to punch in the face and go punch them in the face since the moment we met him. He wants to avoid putting others at risk and find out what's going on with his head, and he still thinks that only directly facing his enemy will allow him to do those things. Everything he's done that wasn't turning himself over has been because someone was pleading or actively restraining him not to. Now, Picard crossed a line and doesn't have any standing to bargain with him, and nobody's restraining him anymore, so he's hard back on plan A.

Spoiler

Yes. Everything Jack has ever done since the very start was "I'll go with them" and "Let them take me" and anything else that involved him going to the source to keep others from being harmed.

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

Yeah, but when you hear that source is a Borg queen, any rational person would be like, "Okay, lets hang out until Frontier Day is over and then go tell Star fleet what we found."

 

[tec]

This goes all the way back to Encunter at Farfoint Q warned Picard that there are things out here that hmanaty was not ready or then later showed them what that was the Borg I knew it was the Borg from the get go it was always gonna be them the real twist is the Dimonions or should I say changelings involvement
Im gonna call it here the Fediration is more then just Starfleet and it vessels and we will see something speical

 

[Axaday]

Maybe I lack imagination, and there's another box somewhere in the back they haven't opened yet, but I can't think of what it would be.

Pakleds. Whoops! I mean

Spoiler

Pakleds

 

[tec]

The Kazon
*everybody laughs*

 

[Kalidor]

I could watch this 10000 times. The best scene in all of Star Trek

Spoiler

 

[MrBlud]

Spoiler

Yeah, but when you hear that source is a Borg queen, any rational person would be like, "Okay, lets hang out until Frontier Day is over and then go tell Star fleet what we found."

Spoiler

The Changeling infiltrators were responsible for pushing the Federation to interconnect all the ships together. So *that* part of the plan would’ve still caused MASSIVE DESTRUCTION even if Jack stayed away and the under-30 crew members weren’t also compromised in addition to that.

And yes, that would be rational but sometimes for stuff to happen during a story you can’t play things logically. They laid the proper groundwork for Jack to be impulsive so it’s not a big deal to me

 

[Copper Bezel]

I could watch this 10000 times. The best scene in all of Star Trek

Spoiler

Cards on the table, the best bit for me this episode was the Jack and Picard scene, and that exchange I quoted earlier. Fully earned moment of awesome.

 

[Deathy G1]

Spoiler

Why does someone keep cutting onions every time I watch this scene?

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

"That" scene from Picard reminded me of this, but at least they didn't steal anything...

because as Janeway once said about them...

 

[TM2-Megatron]

Spoiler

The biggest shock for me was that someone actually allowed them to show a bridge set on screen without any moody lighting.

Since I'd heard pretty much nothing but positive things about this season of Picard, and the fact even Mike & Rich over at Red Letter Media (with whom my opinions on Trek more or less align) are liking it, I decided to finally catch upon it prior to the final episode,

I have to say, it's truly a shame that this wasn't the first season of Star Trek: Picard. Even if it'd been the only season, as some kind of limited mini-series event. But at least we finally got it. Kudos to Terry Matalas.

Is it perfect? No. There are some elements to the Pocketverse I still prefer, and would've enjoyed seeing adapated. But by God, it's been a great ride. I simply won't acknowledge seasons 1 or 2.

 

[Echowarrior]

Let me preface this by saying that I haven't watched a single episode of Picard. The vast majority of what I've seen have been clips on YouTube, and mostly from this season. I have, however, kept up on this season through other means...and I'm liking what I'm seeing.

I do have a couple small things I'd like to point out.

One - I wish that they had found some way of getting Denise Crosby into the show. They don't even have to bring back Tasha Yar (though I can think of a good way to do that which doesn't stretch credibility), as what happened to Sela after the events of TNG is one big blank. What is she up to now that the Romulan Star Empire is now the Romulan Free State? What did she do during the Dominion War? The character could've easily fit into the events of Season One with very little work, and it feels like a missed opportunity that she wasn't there.

Two - This is a very personal thing for me, but I sincerely hope that what I am about to discuss behind spoilers is what happens in the finale.

Spoiler

I want them to take the Borg, or at least the original incarnation of the Collective, off the table. Permanently.

Now, having the Borg in Picard makes sense. Picard was assimilated into the Collective, and that event left lasting scars on him, the Federation and Starfleet. And I personally think that, for all their faults, the first two seasons used the Borg in more interesting ways than before. But boil it down to the basics, and the Borg are ultimately an unrelenting enemy, an existential threat that borders on a force of nature, that's never going to stop and will always come back, no matter what. And because there are people out there who are enamored with them to the point of obsession, they will. If S3 of Picard is meant to be to the crew of TNG what the sixth feature film was to the original series cast, then the conflict with the Borg needs to be resolved. And the only way to do that is to permanently wipe out the original collective.

Part of this, I admit, is personal bias. I had a childhood friend who was obsessed with the Borg and that obsession grated on me after a while. That being said, it makes sense to resolve the Borg as a story, resolve them as a threat, and the only way to do that is to make it definitely clear that they're gone. Let the Jurati Collective remain, if only to avoid continuity woes.

Anyway, can't wait for Thursday.

 

[Axaday]

So anyway, going forward after the finale is Starfleet

Spoiler

Almost entirely made of Ensigns? Are a bunch of senior officers barricaded in mess halls and such or were they mainly slaughtered wholesale across the entire fleet?

Also, I know Klingons are probably fairly tight allies and Romulans are off the table as a big threat right now, but does Starfleet have an important neighboring enemy?

Spoiler

Now would be an excellent time for someone to go have themselves a planet somewhere while Starfleet is all in one spot. Especially when they hear that the fleet is sidelined.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Also, I know Klingons are probably fairly tight allies and Romulans are off the table as a big threat right now, but does Starfleet have an important neighboring enemy?

While I had no hope that the Destiny trilogy itself would be used for story material -- although I don't think it would have prevented Season 2, Seasons 1 and 3 would need a bit more finessing -- the astropolitical changes wrought in its aftermath were just too good to not have through other means, in my opinion.

In a nutshell, the alliances between multi-stellar states become bigger and more entangling. The Khitomer Accords mentioned above are expanded to include the Cardassian Union and the Ferengi Alliance. This is in part a response to a group of formerly isolationist states -- the Breen Confederacy, the Gorn Hegemony, the Romulan Star Empire, the Tholian Assembly, and the Tzenkethi Coalition -- forming a unified currency zone, signing mutual defence assurances, and sharing cloaking technology in what becomes known as the Typhon Pact.

The Pact is not a uniform body -- the Gorn and Romulans pursue back-channel diplomacy with the UFP prior to Hobus, while the Tholians push to destabilize the peace and the Tzenkethi manipulate their allies to varying degrees. The Breen primarily look for technological advantages against a Federation they view as the threat of a counterexample to how they handle a multi-species polity. (Which is why I thought they would have made great cutouts for the Zhat Vash....)

Anyway, since 2009 I've been wanting to see how the Typhon Pact handled the Hobus Event....

 

[tec]

How far we come Deforest Kelly takes a look at TNG during its 4th season production

 

[Cybersnark]

Anyway, since 2009 I've been wanting to see how the Typhon Pact handled the Hobus Event....

My (fanfic) money is still on someone within the Pact causing it (accidentally), then scrambling to pin the blame on the Federation. Note that the supernova (2387) happens just a few months after the Section 31 exposé (late 2386), so the Federation's reputation would be at an all-time low. The Pact could use this to prevent Federation aid from entering Romulan space (helped along by the Federation's own swing toward isolationism [echoing the Picard timeline]), further putting the Romulan successor-states at their mercy --and giving them casus belli to declare war.

(Destabilizing Romulus also removes the wealthiest power within the Pact, allowing the Tzenkethi to gain influence [the Kinshaya and Breen are hurting after their disastrous attempts to meddle in Klingon politics, and the Tholians mainly joined this thing to get everyone to leave them alone], and leaving the Gorn as the sole moderate voice, easily drowned out.)

It falls to certain heroic Starfleet crews (and two renegade Tal Shiar agents) to uncover the truth and prevent a full-scale war. (Meanwhile, Wesley, Spock, and 11-year-old Rebecca Sisko are the only ones who can prevent spacetime itself from being torn apart; sacrifices will be required.)