See? He does care.
Sonic The Hedgehog
- Thread starter Paladin
- Start date
While I don't agree with everything said, I think some of the initial question and observation bears discussion. Especially since I've watched different videos that mostly don't ask the question but do brush against it. Sonic games don't really teach players the flow of the game. It's something you'll pick up if dedicated or have a certain combination of prior experiences but the game doesn't directly teach you. One of the problems is the narrative of "Gotta Go Fast" that causes people to rush on things that the game expects you to slightly slow down for. Like the hang time on jumps if you hold down the button. 2D kinda forced you to earn some of your speed and the lack of options forced you to pick up some of the nuance.
But second? There's this problem of catering to the pro players in ways that hurts newer players. Tutorials shouldn't be obnoxious but I've seen situations where Hint Rings or Omochao are pushed to the side to not get the way of players who complain abot tutorials but other players don't realize the tutorial is there. While it's an inconvenience for experienced players that Sonic Frontiers has so many unskippable tutorials at the beginning, this is also a game that had a lot of new players "get it" when it came to controlling Sonic.
And guess the third part is that...some players are kinda elitist and dishonest. Splash Dash complains about jumping a lot during the tower climbs in Frontiers. Um, this is a platformer. More to the point, each tower has a different specialty and that homing attack one is easier. The one I take bigger issue with is Shadow Generations. While I was surprised with the jump/homing range on one of the jumps, the other jump he was using the trick where an airborne Chaos Spear will increase hang time--a speedrun trick that a regular player won't pick up on.
I've definitely heard the argument that Sonic controls horribly in 3D before, more specifically that you're "going too fast to react to what's ahead of you"... which makes no sense when you compare it to the much-lauded 2D games in which anything more than a few meters in front of you was literally off the edge of the screen and you're also going fast most of the time. That sequence near the beginning of the video, where he's chaining bounces off enemies he absolutely could not see to aim for, is blowing my mind and makes me assume the game must have been carefully set up so if you successfully hit the first enemy at top speed and don't let go of the right arrow, the rest just happens automatically.
Something I've picked up on from various playthroughs I've watched is that doing suboptimally in a Sonic game is unsatisfying. Like, you'll survive to the end but not only are you given a low score, it won't have felt much fun either because you can feel every missed opportunity to nail the timing. But since you're encouraged to keep blowing through the campaign rather than retry the current level (if the game even lets you retry it instead of railroading you straight into the next one), that's going to be a first-time player's whole experience, just one unsatisfying run after another.
Compare that to some of the Super Mario games (starting with World) where there's also a lot of missable content in a level—alternate exits, pickups that count toward a completion percentage, etc.—but because you're in no hurry and exiting a level just dumps you right back to its entrance in the overworld map, players are much more likely to just hit A and try again, or even pull up short of the exit and backtrack to find the stuff they missed. Also, they kind of have to because the game requires them to hit a certain amount of that optional content to even finish the game, much less unlock all the bonus levels.
Something I've picked up on from various playthroughs I've watched is that doing suboptimally in a Sonic game is unsatisfying. Like, you'll survive to the end but not only are you given a low score, it won't have felt much fun either because you can feel every missed opportunity to nail the timing. But since you're encouraged to keep blowing through the campaign rather than retry the current level (if the game even lets you retry it instead of railroading you straight into the next one), that's going to be a first-time player's whole experience, just one unsatisfying run after another.
Compare that to some of the Super Mario games (starting with World) where there's also a lot of missable content in a level—alternate exits, pickups that count toward a completion percentage, etc.—but because you're in no hurry and exiting a level just dumps you right back to its entrance in the overworld map, players are much more likely to just hit A and try again, or even pull up short of the exit and backtrack to find the stuff they missed. Also, they kind of have to because the game requires them to hit a certain amount of that optional content to even finish the game, much less unlock all the bonus levels.
This is a big part of why Sonic 3 & Knuckles is such a masterpiece. Angel Island Zone is pretty well paced to get players used to the game mechanics, without being an obnoxious tutorial. You can breeze through it if you know what you're doing, but the lessons are there. The ziplines aren't at all necessary to navigate the level, but they teach players that there will be objects they can interact with, so poke around and try stuff. The platforms that periodically disappear behind the waterfall teach players to slow down and pay attention, in a spot where you won't die if you miss a jump. There's a few easy water sections that teach players those mechanics before they get thrown into a full water level. One of the secret rings is placed so obviously that players will almost certainly find it, so they'll know to slow down and look for those.
If only they taught us about that damned barrel.
If only they taught us about that damned barrel.
If the Tangle leak is legit, it'll bring about a world of bellyaching from the simp-munks about their waifu.
The same waifu that has way too much baggage attached to her; from her fan's obsessiveness to Penders having his hand all over her (yes, in the "Eww" way).
Yeah-yeah "bUT sEG@ 0Wn$$$ dA FrWEEE-dum Fight-aHs!!1!!1!1!!". But sega did not have a say in their creation unlike Tangle, Whisper, Jewel, etc and they'll do like nintendo does with the Super Mario Prawn-0 films: Own it to control it.
The same waifu that has way too much baggage attached to her; from her fan's obsessiveness to Penders having his hand all over her (yes, in the "Eww" way).
Yeah-yeah "bUT sEG@ 0Wn$$$ dA FrWEEE-dum Fight-aHs!!1!!1!1!!". But sega did not have a say in their creation unlike Tangle, Whisper, Jewel, etc and they'll do like nintendo does with the Super Mario Prawn-0 films: Own it to control it.
From other discussion I've seen, I really think the next Sonic game needs a fighting game style of Practice mode. But one of the good ones that actually teach you things. Frontiers having the mini Practice mode while loading was a great idea but it's not directed enough. Or, more that you can't return to specific lessons. While the first level should teach you the mechanics through play, some people pick up things through direct explanation. Also, it lessens the need to justify it in universe (though they should probably still make it exist in the world).
I imagine most players would skip a practice mode and jump straight to the main game. Even new players who would benefit from a practice mode. It's just how people are.
Maybe at that point all you can do is say "We gave you a manual and you didn't read it, and we gave you a practice mode and you didn't play it. It's on you now." I don't know. There must be a reason so many developers resort to unskippable tutorials instead of doing that.
Maybe at that point all you can do is say "We gave you a manual and you didn't read it, and we gave you a practice mode and you didn't play it. It's on you now." I don't know. There must be a reason so many developers resort to unskippable tutorials instead of doing that.
"God, why didn't you save me from drowning?" "I sent Rescue teams, a boat, and helicopter. What more did you want?"
"You should have removed the water!"
That's the catch, isn't it? Though it depends on the person on whether they complain about tutorials. I've been reviewing in my head a lot of the things Sonic Frontiers did to teach the game as you played. A lot was fairly well thought out, while there were interesting gaps. Subtle things like having Sonic in an area with a short ledge to jump up but nothing to be homing attacked so players learn the actual jump properties. You can tell that they used beta testers for most of the game.