I can see the error too. My brain is just willing to go all Pepe Silvia until I have a solution that fills in the gap.
So I recently learned something about myself...
- Thread starter Videomaster21XX
- Start date
Just a quick bit, but I do cut them some slack on this particular instance for Made in Manehatten. I'm pretty sure most of my aggravation was coming from people trying to tell me it's 'just how it works' or 'It's not worth focusing on/bringging up' because those are NOT options I have.
My brain isn't going to accept either. I understand perfectly that the writers simply overlooked it. I understand perfectly (especially now) that they might not have even noticed it, and I understand perfectly to most people this minor little detail isn't going to be important to most watching it.
The thing is. None of that changes the fact that it doesn't make much logical or narrative sense. So... it's still going to get pointed out to me.
Then imagine you get people trying to tell you how minor a thing it is when your brain does this. I've often wanted to scream "How in the bleep am I supposed to DO that huh?"
Certainly confirms what must be happening when I dream. It's so ironic too. My brain can't properly mimic things like air pressure, or atmospheric sound. And yet BECAUSE of how it is, it points that out to itself and immediately concludes that I'm dreaming.
And yeah, that's probably the reason I mostly lucid dream.
No worries buddy, like Med mentioned, we've all got our little idiosyncratic personality ...uniquenesses. lol. I didn't want to re-litigate a decade old fim episode debate again so deeply, but it was the only example of your brainism I could really speak to. Point being, it is good to know that it has helped... after a fashion... at least. My brainism is mild dpd, and that tends to manifest with me trying to be who people need me to be... I just meet a lot of people who don't have an "oh its this asshole again" in their lives apparently. XD...
I genuinely wasn't trying to upset you. Just point out, that we on the outside are always going to be on the losing side of this fight with your brain... when it holds all the cards regarding what data it will accept... especially in cases where the data it does want... doesn't exist.
I genuinely wasn't trying to upset you. Just point out, that we on the outside are always going to be on the losing side of this fight with your brain... when it holds all the cards regarding what data it will accept... especially in cases where the data it does want... doesn't exist.
This kinda makes me think of my mom- she likes things a certain way (eg cleaning/minimalism) and cannot comprehend that I do not like those things the same way. When I try to explain, she just ends up lecturing me again on how wrong I am.
Video, at least you're able to recognize what your brain is doing and making an effort.
Video, at least you're able to recognize what your brain is doing and making an effort.
I hope so.
The main problem I know I'm having here that my brain is clashing with. Well let me give this example. Destorn you said this:
Okay so A. Random thing I thought of. I can possibly give you that, but to me like I said it seems pretty obvious how it doesn't make sense narratively or logically. And "it's not an actual problem with the episode."
But like... WHY isn't it a problem? I've given the work on my side on why it seems like a problem. But I'm not seeing a reason here on why not. So my brain is just kinda going. "We don't understand why you are telling us this. You are making a statement without anything to back it up."
B. I can see what you are saying, but to me, just because there is an ooc reason for why a thing happened doesn't actually change the fact that as far as I can tell it's still an error.
Like most of us noticed back in season one for the Grand Galloping Gala episode, how that one stallion became a cyclops for a split second. Minor animation error. Most probably didn't notice it. However if I said: "That's an animation error" I wouldn't have people arguing with me that it was in fact NOT an animation error.
C. I know the episode isn't asking me to fix it, and I know we can't fix the error. I can even accept that 'Plot hole' might be a strong way to say it. "Narrative error" might be better phrasing. I can't even really see what I'm doing as tangential as you say.
Because at the end of the day, my brain has settled that it's an error based on a list of information it's gathered. Info based around logic and probability. Everything seems to check out.
I'm being told "But it's not something wrong" and not being given any reasons on WHY it's not. The best I seem to be able to conclude is basically: "Most people aren't going to care" Which is fine and all, but that doesn't magically change the fact that it's clearly an error. At least based on current information.
So I get all worked up and frustrated, because I keep being told. "But it's NOT a mistake!" Without any information on WHY everyone doesn't think it's a mistake, and my brain starts trying to figure out what they mean. What info did we miss? Is there an observation that we overlooked? WHY WHY WHY.
Before I knew what was up, my conclusion was I wasn't giving the right information to YOU. That's why I'd start giving examples of things, and repeat things over and over, because my brain figured your brain was just overlooking the obvious data point we had and if you had it. It'd click and you'd realize what we were saying, and could properly argue the point back.
Except I guess to you guys there isn't any info missing. I can't really put what you think into words, because the way you see and process the world is so incredibly different then how my brain works I don't think I'll ever comprehend it.
I guess the main point I want to make is that for my brain. If it looks at something, has the data to back it up, and has no data that in fact proves what it's saying is wrong. Then it, and I just can't comprehend how we are WRONG when all the data we have appears to be RIGHT.
Please bear with me, because knowing what seems to be the problem is one thing. I'm not entirely confident I'm going to be able to adjust to it right away though.
The main problem I know I'm having here that my brain is clashing with. Well let me give this example. Destorn you said this:
Okay so A. Random thing I thought of. I can possibly give you that, but to me like I said it seems pretty obvious how it doesn't make sense narratively or logically. And "it's not an actual problem with the episode."
But like... WHY isn't it a problem? I've given the work on my side on why it seems like a problem. But I'm not seeing a reason here on why not. So my brain is just kinda going. "We don't understand why you are telling us this. You are making a statement without anything to back it up."
B. I can see what you are saying, but to me, just because there is an ooc reason for why a thing happened doesn't actually change the fact that as far as I can tell it's still an error.
Like most of us noticed back in season one for the Grand Galloping Gala episode, how that one stallion became a cyclops for a split second. Minor animation error. Most probably didn't notice it. However if I said: "That's an animation error" I wouldn't have people arguing with me that it was in fact NOT an animation error.
C. I know the episode isn't asking me to fix it, and I know we can't fix the error. I can even accept that 'Plot hole' might be a strong way to say it. "Narrative error" might be better phrasing. I can't even really see what I'm doing as tangential as you say.
Because at the end of the day, my brain has settled that it's an error based on a list of information it's gathered. Info based around logic and probability. Everything seems to check out.
I'm being told "But it's not something wrong" and not being given any reasons on WHY it's not. The best I seem to be able to conclude is basically: "Most people aren't going to care" Which is fine and all, but that doesn't magically change the fact that it's clearly an error. At least based on current information.
So I get all worked up and frustrated, because I keep being told. "But it's NOT a mistake!" Without any information on WHY everyone doesn't think it's a mistake, and my brain starts trying to figure out what they mean. What info did we miss? Is there an observation that we overlooked? WHY WHY WHY.
Before I knew what was up, my conclusion was I wasn't giving the right information to YOU. That's why I'd start giving examples of things, and repeat things over and over, because my brain figured your brain was just overlooking the obvious data point we had and if you had it. It'd click and you'd realize what we were saying, and could properly argue the point back.
Except I guess to you guys there isn't any info missing. I can't really put what you think into words, because the way you see and process the world is so incredibly different then how my brain works I don't think I'll ever comprehend it.
I guess the main point I want to make is that for my brain. If it looks at something, has the data to back it up, and has no data that in fact proves what it's saying is wrong. Then it, and I just can't comprehend how we are WRONG when all the data we have appears to be RIGHT.
Please bear with me, because knowing what seems to be the problem is one thing. I'm not entirely confident I'm going to be able to adjust to it right away though.
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Trust me, I understand what you're saying. Most people's brains can do this, you just don't seem to be able to turn it off, or adjust the volume... yeah that seems like a more accurate analogy. Personally speaking when I read your list of factual evidence that for you proves to you that there was an "error in long form character consistent narrative". I can see that and say yes I agree with you on the level that:
Were Applejack an actual living creature she would not fail to be consistent in her character without significant external stimulus. however, my brain has this big ass volume dial that i turn down and it lets me think things like. A, she isn't real and is being written over time by a collection of flawed an fallible people. B, the episode isn't about her... so it can justify spending the screen time elsewhere. C, events in this fictional world are not stagnant, 'stuff happens in the margins' one might say... and perhaps if you want to you can imagine at one point when she wasn't in a scene maybe she ran off and called her aunt, but they weren't home and that's why they didn't come help or why she doesn't mention doing it, because doing so wouldn't be productive in any way.
And then I just accept that, sometimes you have to provide your own mental self-care. Then I turn that volume dial back up to see if my brain is still chattering away at me like it wasn't paying attention... sometime it wasn't and I try to think of more things like.
D. The writer just didn't think about it even being a potential problem. E. Maybe this is a subtle rarjack shipping thing, and she needs to do this for rarity for smoochy yuri horse reasons. F. Yeah it for sure is E.
lol that got away from me at the end there. Point is, I understand where you're coming from. I'm just not willing to compromise my reality enough to lie and agree that you are correct about the scope of this issue.. because to me that feels a little condescending... like I'd be patting you on the head like you would a little kid and saying "good job timmy you found the thing and now the episode is forever ruined for me too... what were those writers even thinking?"...
And I Don't want to do that.
Were Applejack an actual living creature she would not fail to be consistent in her character without significant external stimulus. however, my brain has this big ass volume dial that i turn down and it lets me think things like. A, she isn't real and is being written over time by a collection of flawed an fallible people. B, the episode isn't about her... so it can justify spending the screen time elsewhere. C, events in this fictional world are not stagnant, 'stuff happens in the margins' one might say... and perhaps if you want to you can imagine at one point when she wasn't in a scene maybe she ran off and called her aunt, but they weren't home and that's why they didn't come help or why she doesn't mention doing it, because doing so wouldn't be productive in any way.
And then I just accept that, sometimes you have to provide your own mental self-care. Then I turn that volume dial back up to see if my brain is still chattering away at me like it wasn't paying attention... sometime it wasn't and I try to think of more things like.
D. The writer just didn't think about it even being a potential problem. E. Maybe this is a subtle rarjack shipping thing, and she needs to do this for rarity for smoochy yuri horse reasons. F. Yeah it for sure is E.
lol that got away from me at the end there. Point is, I understand where you're coming from. I'm just not willing to compromise my reality enough to lie and agree that you are correct about the scope of this issue.. because to me that feels a little condescending... like I'd be patting you on the head like you would a little kid and saying "good job timmy you found the thing and now the episode is forever ruined for me too... what were those writers even thinking?"...
And I Don't want to do that.
Yep I wish I had that volume control.
Here's what goes on in MY brain!
"Hey brain, look at line A."
Brain: Yes that's obvious. However, this does not change the fact that it should have been addressed. Therefore an error.
"Uh B?"
Brain: You say that like it means something. It not being about Applejack does NOT change the fact that this is an error you should be aware of. It not being focused on her, as we pointed out earlier only ADDS to the reasons this should have been addressed. Because it's not a problem the writers are trying to show her deal with. Therefore an oversight, and thus error. If we are not focused on Applejack, why have her make this error at all?
Brain: And before you say it, we are very well aware it was a simple oversight, and 'D' the writers didn't think it would be a big problem. Hell I'm sure most don't. However at the end of the day, or after all it said. It still doesn't really make logical sense for Applejack to have acted this way. Thus, say it with me now, an error.
C: This honestly is the only logical answer we can really come up with. She must have done something off screen. We feel this messes with the narrative personally. However we are very much aware of how minor an issue it is to others. We don't feel that means you should just overlook this though.
E. Hey it could be. Doesn't change the fact that Rarity should know Applejack enough to ask why she didn't call family though.
It's such a minor thing to most people, but it sticks out so strongly to me.
Why? Because you wouldn't see this mistake in a show like Avatar the Last Airbender, or Gravity Falls. Heck in Gravity Falls for the Sock Puppet Theater episode, The commentary has Alex Hirsch talking about how they worked on the plot of the episode over and over because they HAD to find the right balance of events that would make having Dipper make a deal with Bill Cipher believable.
The results of such care in crafting the world and characters are shows considered masterpieces by most who watch them.
I only wish the same care was put into Pony.
In the end that one little point about Applejack's error sticks with me because deep down I just feel that you should look out for those little points and correct them when you can. I can't fix this episode, but when I create things. I can remember how this didn't flow properly, and make sure I don't do the same.
It helps I just find working out a logical solution to such things well, rather easy and fun. It's why I love to write.
I'm not out to ruin the episode for anyone. This little glitch doesn't ruin it for me. I perfectly understand that people will consider it minor.
I'm just trying to spell out the reason I see it in the first place, and my frustration comes from people trying to tell me to ignore it, or trying to convince me it's not worth noting. Because that isn't a mindset I'm able to take.
And well since I see no cons and only pros to keeping little things like this in mind when it comes to storytelling. That's basically all she wrote.
You are allowed to interpret and enjoy this episode in anyway you want. Just... don't tell me to think differently about it unless you can give me a logical reason as to why I should.
The problem here is, these are logical reasons. You're just choosing an illogical reason to ignore them. "My brain doesn't like those." To which you can say to any argument given. So while you get frustrated because people end up telling you this thing you're focused on isn't a big deal is because they're frustrated that nothing they say will ever work, because you're actually only going to be satisfied by some sort of magic recon of reality that ends up with the episode rewritten the way you want it. So it's an exercise in frustration for all of us.
But I don't want the episode re-written the way I want it. All I feel I'm saying is it makes sense why what happened was an error, and I don't see why it wouldn't be classified as an error.
That's all I feel I'm doing. My frustration is coming from people trying to explain to me that it's not an error, and I'm sorry. I don't understand how it's not.
From my perspective, I've listed out all these reasons it is an error and why it should be considered one, and I get back things I can look at logically and find logical reasons those don't prove it's not an error.
The actual error itself isn't the issue. Getting an answer for the error isn't the goal.
I'm just pointing out why I personally am looking at the thing and arriving at the conclusion I've gotten. It just feels like after I say that everyone comes in and is trying to get me to stop looking at it like it's an error, and I don't see why the fact I AM looking at it like it's an error matters to everyone.
I'd get so worked up trying to defend my answer, because it always felt like everyone was trying to get me to stop looking at it this way, when I can't figure out a logical reason as to why I should.
Why does it matter to everyone that I feel this is an error? I can comprehend why someone wouldn't think it's a big deal, but to just outright say: "That's not an error" is the part I don't think I can ever wrap my head around.
However if your response is that you just can't see it as an error, well okay then. It's just a tv show. It doesn't matter if you don't, you could even have a way of looking at it that I'll never know. I feel we can both look at it however we want. I'm not trying to say my way of looking at it is the one true way.
I just always felt it was weird that I'd compile all this information. Decide it makes logical sense to me that it works, and then have this feeling everyone is trying to get me to look at it THEIR way and not my way.
Like I'm sorry. It looks like an error to me. I've sat here and tried to see things your way but I can't. I can't see it as a minor thing not worth noting. I can't see it as part of the episode making process. Everything screams out to me that it's an error. Doesn't matter we can't fix it, it's just there. I acknowledge it's there and move on. That's what I'm able to do.
It feels like everyone wants me to look at it differently, but I can't. Nothing else makes sense.
My brain and me are one person. I thought maybe trying to phrase it as something my brain was doing would help others understand why I'm so stuck on this.
It's so frustrating to be living this, try to explain it, and have everyone look at you like you're insane.
That's all I feel I'm doing. My frustration is coming from people trying to explain to me that it's not an error, and I'm sorry. I don't understand how it's not.
From my perspective, I've listed out all these reasons it is an error and why it should be considered one, and I get back things I can look at logically and find logical reasons those don't prove it's not an error.
The actual error itself isn't the issue. Getting an answer for the error isn't the goal.
I'm just pointing out why I personally am looking at the thing and arriving at the conclusion I've gotten. It just feels like after I say that everyone comes in and is trying to get me to stop looking at it like it's an error, and I don't see why the fact I AM looking at it like it's an error matters to everyone.
I'd get so worked up trying to defend my answer, because it always felt like everyone was trying to get me to stop looking at it this way, when I can't figure out a logical reason as to why I should.
Why does it matter to everyone that I feel this is an error? I can comprehend why someone wouldn't think it's a big deal, but to just outright say: "That's not an error" is the part I don't think I can ever wrap my head around.
However if your response is that you just can't see it as an error, well okay then. It's just a tv show. It doesn't matter if you don't, you could even have a way of looking at it that I'll never know. I feel we can both look at it however we want. I'm not trying to say my way of looking at it is the one true way.
I just always felt it was weird that I'd compile all this information. Decide it makes logical sense to me that it works, and then have this feeling everyone is trying to get me to look at it THEIR way and not my way.
Like I'm sorry. It looks like an error to me. I've sat here and tried to see things your way but I can't. I can't see it as a minor thing not worth noting. I can't see it as part of the episode making process. Everything screams out to me that it's an error. Doesn't matter we can't fix it, it's just there. I acknowledge it's there and move on. That's what I'm able to do.
It feels like everyone wants me to look at it differently, but I can't. Nothing else makes sense.
My brain and me are one person. I thought maybe trying to phrase it as something my brain was doing would help others understand why I'm so stuck on this.
It's so frustrating to be living this, try to explain it, and have everyone look at you like you're insane.
I can't call it an error. Because that implies a mistake. Which, didn't happen. Why I keep saying that what you want is the episode rewritten is because if it was, than this could be an error. It's not about applejack using her extended family to build a stage... the episode is about Rarity.
This is like complaining that uncle Ben shouldn't have died, because there were like 400 other marvel superheros active in New York at the time.
I'm sorry you live with this, but like it isn't the world that's wrong this time.
This is like complaining that uncle Ben shouldn't have died, because there were like 400 other marvel superheros active in New York at the time.
I'm sorry you live with this, but like it isn't the world that's wrong this time.
Okay I've had my time to decompress and I think I have a theory on what is happening.
So the way I'm seeing it is we are both technically correct. We're just looking at it from different angles, and it turns out they don't play well together.
So, there are exceptions to the rule, but 90% of the time when I watch something I fall into a particular mindset.
I'm not seeing the thing as 'Just a cartoon'. Call it my writing instinct, call it that I'm insane. I don't know anymore.
So it's very important to not see them as just characters that you are manipulating. They are real people (Or ponies in this case) in a real world. See the thing is Rarity and Applejack DON'T KNOW THEY ARE CARTOON CHARACTERS. I'm not shouting that. I'm just bolding it to show how important I feel that point is.
Therefore when they do an action in the world, the background characters also need to act in a logical manner. This is VERY IMPORTANT to me to the point that you can basically say it's engraved into my very being. I can NOT see it any other way. This isn't to say that I think I'm going to be able to open a portal to the world someday. I know it's just a damn cartoon, but when writing. I personally feel that to get the best possible story you can. You HAVE to look at it as if they are real people doing real things, and the world needs to react in a logical realistic manner.
If I wrote: "A guy enters the crowded lobby of a hotel. He pulls out a gun and fires a few rounds into the ceiling. The crowd began to scream and run for cover"
I imagine the majority of people reading it would think: "Yeah that feels like an appropriate response to that."
If I wrote: "A guy enters the crowded lobby of a hotel. He pulls out a gun and fires a few rounds into the ceiling. Only a few people even glance his way, the rest ignoring him completely."
I would then imagine that the majority of people would be wondering why the crowd is acting like that. That isn't normal. They might start to ask questions like "Do they know this guy? Does he do this often? Is the gun fake? What is the reason no one is responding?"
If I wrote: "A guy enters the crowded lobby of a hotel. He pulls out a gun and fires a few rounds into the ceiling. The crowd yells "Areeba!" They then proceed to put a trout on their heads and do the river dance."
I imagine the majority of people would probably read that and go: "What the BLEEP is this?" Because NONE OF THAT makes any sense for people to do in that situation.
So here we have an episode where Rarity and Applejack are confronted with a problem. Now logically, each of the mane six would tackle this issue a different way.
Rainbow Dash would probably do something flashy to get ponies attention, then see if she can get them to help out.
Fluttershy would ask the nearby animals for help, and maybe get some of the owners in on helping.
Twilight might cast a spell, but I feel she'd likely more find a way to give a big friendship speech, and inspire ponies to help.
Pinkie Pie would just go out into the street, start a song, and it'd end with half the block helping out.
I feel Rarity is pretty much on brand for how she acts. The important thing I'm seeing is that these characters that I've mentioned, don't really know anyone in Manehatten, so they have limited options on what they can do. The only ponies Rarity knows are Coco, who is there, and Suri, who I really doubt she'd go try to get help from, and that's assuming Suri is even THERE.
Applejack. Applejack knows family in the city. She keeps in contact with family, they have a reunion every year. That's at least a few hands which is better than none. She's smart and wants to help. Logically speaking, I just can't see any other first step then. CALL THEM.
Now when I noticed this, I want to be clear. I didn't yell at the screen. WHY DIDN'T YOU APPLEJACK!? I didn't go put up a board with pictures of her family and her and started making yarn trails. I really don't know what it is you think I did or am doing. I simply went: "Oh that's odd. They made a small boo boo there." And just continued to watch the episode. That was it. I thought it was pretty good, it just has that one small hiccup.
And now a very important thing I want to say is that I'm literally LOCKED into looking at this from the viewpoint of: "They think this is a real world, so everything has to logically react and progress as a real world."
I'm aware it's just a show, and I'm aware of the reasons why Applejack didn't mention trying to contact her family. The issue is that anything from the viewpoint of "It's just a TV show" Will NOT work as an argument for "There was no mistake/hiccup/whatever you want to call it"
You are giving me things like: "There wasn't time in the episode" And that's true, and I GET why you guys can accept that and just move on.
I can't. Because looking at it from my viewpoint that makes no sense.
Rarity: Oh we need help to finish this and we have limited time! What should we do Applejack?
Applejack: Well I'd call my family to help, but there isn't enough time in the episode!
Rarity: What? What are you talking about!? *shakes Applejack* This isn't a tv show! This is real! We need REAL help Applejack! Stop joking around!
Yeah that doesn't work.
Rarity: Oh we need help to finish this and we have limited time! What should we do Applejack?
Applejack: Well I could call in ma family.
Rarity: NO Applejack! This episode isn't about YOU it's about ME!
Applejack: Begging yer pardon, but what in the hay are you going on about Rares?
Look I'm sorry but that doesn't work either. It makes no sense for them to say that or act that way. You can't use a meta solution, that implies they know they are in a show, which they don't.
Now you aren't wrong in how you are looking at it. Logically, it's just a show. These things happen. I know that, but I can't ignore that from the perspective of "The world has to react in a logical manner" I can't just ignore that.
I'm REALLY not trying to say I'm right, I'm just trying to say that there is a GOOD REASON I have my opinion on this. I feel given what I've just said that it's perfectly understandable to mark that one thing as a mistake or error. It's something that I know I can't fix, but I'm not TRYING TO. I'm just noticing it because for me it sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't unsee it, and unless I can reason out a way that makes sense for the viewpoint of why someone would do things like this in basically real life. My brian is just going to keep pointing it out to me.
I honestly have no idea how people just go: "Eh it's just a show" I can't do that. I don't mean won't. I mean I literally CAN NOT. It feels like I'm trying to ignore the information my brain sat in front of me. Or to put it another way. It's like I'm trying to not think about umbrella's, and someone just ran into my room screaming: "QUICK DON'T THINK ABOUT UMBRELLAS!"
Yeah maybe it IS possible not to do that, but I'm going to be thinking of Umbrella's and why I'm not supposed to.
I can't do anything about this. It makes sense, it's my default way of looking at things. I don't know what to tell you. It's clear as day to me a mistake was made. You don't have to agree with me, but you aren't going to convince me otherwise. At least not with answers that only work from the viewpoint of "It's just a show"
Yes it's annoying, there are shows I can't watch because of this crap, but far as I'm aware, there isn't a switch in my brain to fix this.
So the way I'm seeing it is we are both technically correct. We're just looking at it from different angles, and it turns out they don't play well together.
So, there are exceptions to the rule, but 90% of the time when I watch something I fall into a particular mindset.
I'm not seeing the thing as 'Just a cartoon'. Call it my writing instinct, call it that I'm insane. I don't know anymore.
So it's very important to not see them as just characters that you are manipulating. They are real people (Or ponies in this case) in a real world. See the thing is Rarity and Applejack DON'T KNOW THEY ARE CARTOON CHARACTERS. I'm not shouting that. I'm just bolding it to show how important I feel that point is.
Therefore when they do an action in the world, the background characters also need to act in a logical manner. This is VERY IMPORTANT to me to the point that you can basically say it's engraved into my very being. I can NOT see it any other way. This isn't to say that I think I'm going to be able to open a portal to the world someday. I know it's just a damn cartoon, but when writing. I personally feel that to get the best possible story you can. You HAVE to look at it as if they are real people doing real things, and the world needs to react in a logical realistic manner.
If I wrote: "A guy enters the crowded lobby of a hotel. He pulls out a gun and fires a few rounds into the ceiling. The crowd began to scream and run for cover"
I imagine the majority of people reading it would think: "Yeah that feels like an appropriate response to that."
If I wrote: "A guy enters the crowded lobby of a hotel. He pulls out a gun and fires a few rounds into the ceiling. Only a few people even glance his way, the rest ignoring him completely."
I would then imagine that the majority of people would be wondering why the crowd is acting like that. That isn't normal. They might start to ask questions like "Do they know this guy? Does he do this often? Is the gun fake? What is the reason no one is responding?"
If I wrote: "A guy enters the crowded lobby of a hotel. He pulls out a gun and fires a few rounds into the ceiling. The crowd yells "Areeba!" They then proceed to put a trout on their heads and do the river dance."
I imagine the majority of people would probably read that and go: "What the BLEEP is this?" Because NONE OF THAT makes any sense for people to do in that situation.
So here we have an episode where Rarity and Applejack are confronted with a problem. Now logically, each of the mane six would tackle this issue a different way.
Rainbow Dash would probably do something flashy to get ponies attention, then see if she can get them to help out.
Fluttershy would ask the nearby animals for help, and maybe get some of the owners in on helping.
Twilight might cast a spell, but I feel she'd likely more find a way to give a big friendship speech, and inspire ponies to help.
Pinkie Pie would just go out into the street, start a song, and it'd end with half the block helping out.
I feel Rarity is pretty much on brand for how she acts. The important thing I'm seeing is that these characters that I've mentioned, don't really know anyone in Manehatten, so they have limited options on what they can do. The only ponies Rarity knows are Coco, who is there, and Suri, who I really doubt she'd go try to get help from, and that's assuming Suri is even THERE.
Applejack. Applejack knows family in the city. She keeps in contact with family, they have a reunion every year. That's at least a few hands which is better than none. She's smart and wants to help. Logically speaking, I just can't see any other first step then. CALL THEM.
Now when I noticed this, I want to be clear. I didn't yell at the screen. WHY DIDN'T YOU APPLEJACK!? I didn't go put up a board with pictures of her family and her and started making yarn trails. I really don't know what it is you think I did or am doing. I simply went: "Oh that's odd. They made a small boo boo there." And just continued to watch the episode. That was it. I thought it was pretty good, it just has that one small hiccup.
And now a very important thing I want to say is that I'm literally LOCKED into looking at this from the viewpoint of: "They think this is a real world, so everything has to logically react and progress as a real world."
I'm aware it's just a show, and I'm aware of the reasons why Applejack didn't mention trying to contact her family. The issue is that anything from the viewpoint of "It's just a TV show" Will NOT work as an argument for "There was no mistake/hiccup/whatever you want to call it"
You are giving me things like: "There wasn't time in the episode" And that's true, and I GET why you guys can accept that and just move on.
I can't. Because looking at it from my viewpoint that makes no sense.
Rarity: Oh we need help to finish this and we have limited time! What should we do Applejack?
Applejack: Well I'd call my family to help, but there isn't enough time in the episode!
Rarity: What? What are you talking about!? *shakes Applejack* This isn't a tv show! This is real! We need REAL help Applejack! Stop joking around!
Yeah that doesn't work.
Rarity: Oh we need help to finish this and we have limited time! What should we do Applejack?
Applejack: Well I could call in ma family.
Rarity: NO Applejack! This episode isn't about YOU it's about ME!
Applejack: Begging yer pardon, but what in the hay are you going on about Rares?
Look I'm sorry but that doesn't work either. It makes no sense for them to say that or act that way. You can't use a meta solution, that implies they know they are in a show, which they don't.
Now you aren't wrong in how you are looking at it. Logically, it's just a show. These things happen. I know that, but I can't ignore that from the perspective of "The world has to react in a logical manner" I can't just ignore that.
I'm REALLY not trying to say I'm right, I'm just trying to say that there is a GOOD REASON I have my opinion on this. I feel given what I've just said that it's perfectly understandable to mark that one thing as a mistake or error. It's something that I know I can't fix, but I'm not TRYING TO. I'm just noticing it because for me it sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't unsee it, and unless I can reason out a way that makes sense for the viewpoint of why someone would do things like this in basically real life. My brian is just going to keep pointing it out to me.
I honestly have no idea how people just go: "Eh it's just a show" I can't do that. I don't mean won't. I mean I literally CAN NOT. It feels like I'm trying to ignore the information my brain sat in front of me. Or to put it another way. It's like I'm trying to not think about umbrella's, and someone just ran into my room screaming: "QUICK DON'T THINK ABOUT UMBRELLAS!"
Yeah maybe it IS possible not to do that, but I'm going to be thinking of Umbrella's and why I'm not supposed to.
I can't do anything about this. It makes sense, it's my default way of looking at things. I don't know what to tell you. It's clear as day to me a mistake was made. You don't have to agree with me, but you aren't going to convince me otherwise. At least not with answers that only work from the viewpoint of "It's just a show"
Yes it's annoying, there are shows I can't watch because of this crap, but far as I'm aware, there isn't a switch in my brain to fix this.
No worries. I get it... I can see why it's frustrating to deal with the rest of us.
It's too the point that it's the sole reason you get sparse responses from me on here right now. I've spent so much of my life with people getting mad at me for what I feel is just the natural way to think and break things down that I need that time to prep myself for the possible retaliation.
And yet you want to know what baffles me the most? I've been hyper-fixated on this one little point. (Which my brain has let me come up with more I could say to argue why it's still a mistake BTW. When something bugs me it REALLY sticks in there)
Anyway, I can get something so small stuck in my mind like this. But you want to know what my brain has no problems with?
In any pony episode they'll stop and start to sing and dance about something revelent to the plot. Like when Rainbow Dash wanted a new pet. Fluttershy and her sang about it. That's not something you'd see happen in a real world, or see people actually do, but my brain is just like: "No that's fine."
So for THAT it can apparently accept people in this world just do that, but since it's breaking down the options for Applejack in this one episode, and what she could do and the most logical thing she can do. THAT I can't unsee.
But if half the town stopped to sing about how great the weather is? No that's perfectly fine. >_>
And yet you want to know what baffles me the most? I've been hyper-fixated on this one little point. (Which my brain has let me come up with more I could say to argue why it's still a mistake BTW. When something bugs me it REALLY sticks in there)
Anyway, I can get something so small stuck in my mind like this. But you want to know what my brain has no problems with?
In any pony episode they'll stop and start to sing and dance about something revelent to the plot. Like when Rainbow Dash wanted a new pet. Fluttershy and her sang about it. That's not something you'd see happen in a real world, or see people actually do, but my brain is just like: "No that's fine."
So for THAT it can apparently accept people in this world just do that, but since it's breaking down the options for Applejack in this one episode, and what she could do and the most logical thing she can do. THAT I can't unsee.
But if half the town stopped to sing about how great the weather is? No that's perfectly fine. >_>
Why would they sing about how great the weather is? They can arrange that any time they want.
Do you REALLY doubt they have a 'The weather today is perfect' song? Even if they made it that way themselves?
Let me start off that I perfectly understand if you are tired of me rambling on about this stuff, and if you feel that having to read through a wall of my text on the matter would be a slog. Once more I understand. No hard feelings if you skip this.
I've still been thinking on these topics, and I have a theory on why I'm having trouble, and much as it might be egotistical to say, I think it's because certain observations are well. So obvious that I never thought to actually spell them out before. So here goes:
The thing about the PT demo. My issue is that I don't like the fact that by requiring you to use a microphone to solve a puzzle, a mic you had no indication of needing to use, leads to a certain percentage of players that, given they wouldn't possess this knowledge and it's never properly given to them, could in theory spend HOURS bumbling around in this thing, only to find out later all that time was WASTED because they didn't know this.
The system having a mic is irrelevant as the issue isn't if it has one or not, it's the unclear instructions, or general lack of ANY hint, that you would have to use one. While I understand it was likely intentional for the demo alone, and that they probably intended for a streamer to discover it first all along. It was my worry they'd pull crap like that in the main game that bothered me.
Naturally we had no idea what they'd do, and we never will. Sorry to open that wound again. However to put it as simply as I can. If they DIDN'T do things like that, aka needing to use something that exists outside of the game with no clear indication you'd need to do so, then a much LESSER percent of players are going to have their time wasted, then the HIGHER percent we had possible in the demo.
There is also the issue with the fact that TO THIS DAY, we don't have a direct CLEAR set of instructions to in a sense "Beat" the demo. It's a bunch of random: "Well if you do this and this, you might trigger this, we THINK it's set off by doing these three random things."
This very much feels to me like it takes RNG to win the damn demo. I do not care for having to rely on RNG to beat a game, even a free demo. I feel structuring it in a way that as long as you know what to do, a high to possibly 100% of your playerbase is able to successfully complete said activity is the best scenerio to aim for.
This is of course just my personal feelings on the matter, and not reflective of other people's feelings. I believe this didn't bother most people, which is good. However I personally still feel that the lesser percent of players that end up frustrated and roadblocked. The better.
Moving along:
Using my loose definition of me being a writer, and I've published nothing so I just can't bring myself to feel it has that much weight. Regardless, I'm serious about writing and as such I can say that when approaching any situation in a story, you want to immediately jump into their POV, or at the very least imagine you are sitting next to them helping them solve their current problem.
To do this you must know the rules of the world, the tools available to your characters, and how their personality might shape the situation.
From my perspective, to do literally anything else, is just dumb. By doing things this way, you add depth to the world, to the characters, you give the situation they are trying to solve realism, and it helps readers connect with the story/world and characters. There is simply no downside I can perceive.
So much that my mind has defaulted to it, or maybe it just naturally always did. The point is that I will never and I mean NEVER be able to change approaching things while utilizing that mind set. It's not possible to think of stuff from the, honestly what I find, shallow viewpoint of "It's just a fictional show". Staying on that level runs the high risk of you treating characters as minor NPCs. Pawns in a board game. Basically a nobody with no depth, only meant to stand there for scene dressing.
This is why we ended up with things like Pinkie Pie in Filli Vanilli, where despite in season 1 showing that she is careful not to hurt ponies feelings, just flat out says things that would do this to Fluttershy over and over again. Which many agree is not in her character. (Unless you subscribe to the fan theory she was doing it on purpose to manipulate the situation to help Fluttershy in the long run, but that is in fact only a fan theory and can't probably be considered as canon)
With all that being said, when presented with, and yes I know you're groaning, the issue of Rarity and Applejack needing to solve the problem of needing quick help for that stage show. Well looking at it from AJ's POV, or even if I was like her friend and we had to solve this problem together. Well everything we know of her family, it seems very plausible that they'd drop everything and help. Regardless we can consider it reasonable that if this was a real life situation and our friend had that card to play. They'd play it.
This as a writer will ALWAYS feel off to me. I feel it's something that should have been addressed in the show. Minor to others or not, I can't unsee it, and imagining I'm Applejack. I can't imagine a reason I wouldn't call my family when they are so important, and the general motto of the Apple family seems to be to help family out.
Just feels off, and I can't shake that feeling.
Naturally there are many reasons why this might have happened, time constraints, the writers just didn't think of it, ETC.
Still going to feel off to me.
While on the subject the reason: "The episode isn't about AJ" Well one I can't say that's entirely accurate, as if she wasn't meant to be part of the episode, she wouldn't have been chosen to accompany Rarity in the first place. If AJ didn't have anything to contribute, why not send Pinkie or Rainbow instead?
Yes I'm aware you could argue her role was more minor then Rarity's, but still. AJ was important for the solution. It's just she had a solution she could have used earlier, just didn't.
Also by that same reasoning, I can craft the following scenerio:
I'm a writer for the show in season 1. I want to make an episode about Fluttershy's fear of heights. The premise of the episode is that a baby kitten has climbed a VERY tall tree and is now stuck. She's crying her eyes out.
Fluttershy is distraught, but the fear of having to fly THAT high is getting to her. While trying to face this fear, her friends each come to hype her up. This includes Rainbow Dash, Twilight, and Rarity.
In the end Fluttershy faces her fear and rescues the kitten.
By the logic used of "That episode wasn't about AJ" I could use the same reasoning, and if someone asked me "Why doesn't Rainbow Dash fly up to get the kitten? Why doesn't Twilight use magic to get her down? Or Rarity? Why doesn't Pinkie just pop up there, grab the kitten then pop back down somehow?"
And apparently I can just say: "Well the episode wasn't about them" and that works...
This is why I struggle with those type of responses. I'm not sure how it wasn't so clear that that answer couldn't possibly work.
Why didn't character do thing that would be easy for them to do is a valid question.
In short, I'm bothered by this because I'm trying to work out a reason from AJs POV of why she wouldn't do a thing. The meta reasons are obvious, but I'm not here to discuss those, I'm here to figure out why someone wouldn't act like their normal self, from the viewpoint that they're a real person trying to solve a real problem. It's just out of character in my opinion for AJ to not consider calling her family. I feel inserting a line: "I wish I could get ahold of my family!" Would have solved this inconsistency, and helped deepen the realism of the situation, thus deepening the story and characters, but I perfectly understand this is a thing that's only going to bug ME.
It's just it does bug me, and I'm sick of being shamed for it.
I've still been thinking on these topics, and I have a theory on why I'm having trouble, and much as it might be egotistical to say, I think it's because certain observations are well. So obvious that I never thought to actually spell them out before. So here goes:
The thing about the PT demo. My issue is that I don't like the fact that by requiring you to use a microphone to solve a puzzle, a mic you had no indication of needing to use, leads to a certain percentage of players that, given they wouldn't possess this knowledge and it's never properly given to them, could in theory spend HOURS bumbling around in this thing, only to find out later all that time was WASTED because they didn't know this.
The system having a mic is irrelevant as the issue isn't if it has one or not, it's the unclear instructions, or general lack of ANY hint, that you would have to use one. While I understand it was likely intentional for the demo alone, and that they probably intended for a streamer to discover it first all along. It was my worry they'd pull crap like that in the main game that bothered me.
Naturally we had no idea what they'd do, and we never will. Sorry to open that wound again. However to put it as simply as I can. If they DIDN'T do things like that, aka needing to use something that exists outside of the game with no clear indication you'd need to do so, then a much LESSER percent of players are going to have their time wasted, then the HIGHER percent we had possible in the demo.
There is also the issue with the fact that TO THIS DAY, we don't have a direct CLEAR set of instructions to in a sense "Beat" the demo. It's a bunch of random: "Well if you do this and this, you might trigger this, we THINK it's set off by doing these three random things."
This very much feels to me like it takes RNG to win the damn demo. I do not care for having to rely on RNG to beat a game, even a free demo. I feel structuring it in a way that as long as you know what to do, a high to possibly 100% of your playerbase is able to successfully complete said activity is the best scenerio to aim for.
This is of course just my personal feelings on the matter, and not reflective of other people's feelings. I believe this didn't bother most people, which is good. However I personally still feel that the lesser percent of players that end up frustrated and roadblocked. The better.
Moving along:
Using my loose definition of me being a writer, and I've published nothing so I just can't bring myself to feel it has that much weight. Regardless, I'm serious about writing and as such I can say that when approaching any situation in a story, you want to immediately jump into their POV, or at the very least imagine you are sitting next to them helping them solve their current problem.
To do this you must know the rules of the world, the tools available to your characters, and how their personality might shape the situation.
From my perspective, to do literally anything else, is just dumb. By doing things this way, you add depth to the world, to the characters, you give the situation they are trying to solve realism, and it helps readers connect with the story/world and characters. There is simply no downside I can perceive.
So much that my mind has defaulted to it, or maybe it just naturally always did. The point is that I will never and I mean NEVER be able to change approaching things while utilizing that mind set. It's not possible to think of stuff from the, honestly what I find, shallow viewpoint of "It's just a fictional show". Staying on that level runs the high risk of you treating characters as minor NPCs. Pawns in a board game. Basically a nobody with no depth, only meant to stand there for scene dressing.
This is why we ended up with things like Pinkie Pie in Filli Vanilli, where despite in season 1 showing that she is careful not to hurt ponies feelings, just flat out says things that would do this to Fluttershy over and over again. Which many agree is not in her character. (Unless you subscribe to the fan theory she was doing it on purpose to manipulate the situation to help Fluttershy in the long run, but that is in fact only a fan theory and can't probably be considered as canon)
With all that being said, when presented with, and yes I know you're groaning, the issue of Rarity and Applejack needing to solve the problem of needing quick help for that stage show. Well looking at it from AJ's POV, or even if I was like her friend and we had to solve this problem together. Well everything we know of her family, it seems very plausible that they'd drop everything and help. Regardless we can consider it reasonable that if this was a real life situation and our friend had that card to play. They'd play it.
This as a writer will ALWAYS feel off to me. I feel it's something that should have been addressed in the show. Minor to others or not, I can't unsee it, and imagining I'm Applejack. I can't imagine a reason I wouldn't call my family when they are so important, and the general motto of the Apple family seems to be to help family out.
Just feels off, and I can't shake that feeling.
Naturally there are many reasons why this might have happened, time constraints, the writers just didn't think of it, ETC.
Still going to feel off to me.
While on the subject the reason: "The episode isn't about AJ" Well one I can't say that's entirely accurate, as if she wasn't meant to be part of the episode, she wouldn't have been chosen to accompany Rarity in the first place. If AJ didn't have anything to contribute, why not send Pinkie or Rainbow instead?
Yes I'm aware you could argue her role was more minor then Rarity's, but still. AJ was important for the solution. It's just she had a solution she could have used earlier, just didn't.
Also by that same reasoning, I can craft the following scenerio:
I'm a writer for the show in season 1. I want to make an episode about Fluttershy's fear of heights. The premise of the episode is that a baby kitten has climbed a VERY tall tree and is now stuck. She's crying her eyes out.
Fluttershy is distraught, but the fear of having to fly THAT high is getting to her. While trying to face this fear, her friends each come to hype her up. This includes Rainbow Dash, Twilight, and Rarity.
In the end Fluttershy faces her fear and rescues the kitten.
By the logic used of "That episode wasn't about AJ" I could use the same reasoning, and if someone asked me "Why doesn't Rainbow Dash fly up to get the kitten? Why doesn't Twilight use magic to get her down? Or Rarity? Why doesn't Pinkie just pop up there, grab the kitten then pop back down somehow?"
And apparently I can just say: "Well the episode wasn't about them" and that works...
This is why I struggle with those type of responses. I'm not sure how it wasn't so clear that that answer couldn't possibly work.
Why didn't character do thing that would be easy for them to do is a valid question.
In short, I'm bothered by this because I'm trying to work out a reason from AJs POV of why she wouldn't do a thing. The meta reasons are obvious, but I'm not here to discuss those, I'm here to figure out why someone wouldn't act like their normal self, from the viewpoint that they're a real person trying to solve a real problem. It's just out of character in my opinion for AJ to not consider calling her family. I feel inserting a line: "I wish I could get ahold of my family!" Would have solved this inconsistency, and helped deepen the realism of the situation, thus deepening the story and characters, but I perfectly understand this is a thing that's only going to bug ME.
It's just it does bug me, and I'm sick of being shamed for it.
Who is shaming you? Also... these aren't real people, they don't have agency... they actually are npcs in a world the writers play with. Applejack no more has a set of logical things she "should" do than a rock. On the road of canterlot.
Another angle... Manehattan is a big place... maybe her family are from far enough away that their help would be counter productive to the community building plot of the episode.
As for pt... its a demo, you're like the first person I've heard ever even call it "beating" a demo... I've always called it 'finishing' because its only meant to be a small part of the game.
Another angle... Manehattan is a big place... maybe her family are from far enough away that their help would be counter productive to the community building plot of the episode.
As for pt... its a demo, you're like the first person I've heard ever even call it "beating" a demo... I've always called it 'finishing' because its only meant to be a small part of the game.
I was stuck on the Barrel of Doom for 20 years so I can understand the frustration with the PT demo. Games have to at least give you a hint.
Sure games do... this was a demo. And not even a finished one as far as that goes