Post Pictures of your Transformers: Autumnbots and Halloween Horrorcons!
- Thread starter Ave Destron
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In the Nintendo store at CityWalk?
It's funny how modern interpretations of Alpha Trion as one of the Thirteen now depict him as already being a bearded old man at the dawn of time when the OG version from the G1 cartoon was shown to have originally been a youthful rebel leader with a teeny tiny black mustache just 11 million years in the past.
Like, he wasn't born old, Archer and Alvarez.
Like, he wasn't born old, Archer and Alvarez.
Maybe he was, like Arn Anderson.
I've said it before. People think they're tired of the G1 cartoon, but most retreads borrow basically nothing from it other than TFTM quotes. The lore and most of the characters' personalities are utterly abandoned.
"Care... Bear..."
"...STARE!!!"
It's one reason I was very happy to see SkyBound use the "crashed and unconscious in the Ark" setup.
That hasn't been done since actual G1. It's a retread, sure, but it feels shockingly more refreshing to go back to that stuff then another fandom reboot where they're all on Earth for the first time in the present.
Didn't the Devil's Due TF/G.I. Joe crossover minis and Hearts of Steel both do that too?
Maybe DD did that? That whole run is a blank spot in my knowledge.
HoS had the same general setup but instead of the Ark they were, IIRC, in stasis in a cave.
Which is conceptually similar, but I'm talking about the Ark as it was in 1984. That exact set piece and starting point.
For being such a central element to the most widely known version of G1, it gets shockingly little play in the various reboots that dot the franchise.
It's so uniquely tied to the 80s that sure it's a retread, but it still felt fresh when SkyBound went with it. It's far less common than one might assume.
And helps distinguish SkyBound from IDW- which will fair or not, is its primary point of comparison- which opted for a "our main cast of Autobots just recently got to Earth in the present day" setup when it started.
Early Transformers fandom discussions seemed to revolve around debates about which was superior, Marvel or Sunbow.
I wasn't a part of the fandom back then, but as someone looking back it seems like Marvel won out in the general consensus?
Like... the Primus creation story is what Hasbro eventually settled on as the Big C Canonical origin of Cybertron, with Hasbro treating the Quintesson aspect from Sunbow as a begrudging obligation more than anything.
Which is weird. More people know Transformers from the Sunbow show than Marvel comics. I don't think that's a wild claim to make.
But the early fandom seemed to arrive at the consensus that the show was dumb and goofy while the comics were "epic" and "mature." This lead to the Sunbow stuff, despite being so crucial to the franchise, getting co-signed to the dustbin of franchise history.
Cobra found the Ark and excavated the unconscious Autobots and Decepticons out of it.
I think it was also done in Dreamwave, but never actually shown since the first story was set years later. Although, a story written in the Transformers Legends anthology book titled "Parts" was set in Dreamwave G1 and did feature the "wake up aboard the crash-landed Ark" story.
From a UK perspective, the Marvel comics were the default definitive version of Transformers fiction, due to how the cartoon barely aired on TV over there.
Not to sound dismissive to the UK fanbase but... well... I don't think this being true makes my statement about the Sunbow cartoon being more well known overall any less true either.
The cartoon was airring on a channel called ITV but they weren't exactly consitant, same thing happened with Beast Wars but on channel 5 which at the time was a rather new channel to the setup at the time as in the UK for standard none cable or satellite setup we had five channels in total:
BBC 1
BBC 2
ITV
Channel 4
Channel 5
Channel 5 had the wrost signal, not a pirate station or anything, it just cost money or something to get the equipment setup at the places that boost the TV signals across the country so there was a lot of static on the screen and not a crystal clear picture as you would get with the other channels, but then it was analog back then and various parts of ITV and channel 4 airred stuff at different times of the day in diferent parts of the country!
As for the Dreamwave comics, I always thought they were a sort of a bridge between season 2 & the 86 movie
Maybe "hasn't been done since actual G1" is not the way to make the case, but those counterexamples cited ARE all in the neighborhood of 20 years old. And in that time we've had a range of different expressions of the Arrival To Earth. (I would disagree and say that the specific "crash, Teletraan I reformats, etc" sequence in particular isn't what's iconic or essential about that Arrival, and appreciate that we haven't always been locked into that comparatively narratively slow setup.)
I haven't missed that specific one myself, but it's fair to say it was due to be seen again, to be revisited and experimented with.
The question of which (Sunbow/UK comic) would be more familiar to the general public shouldn't really influence which origin would be more sensible to use in media, I don't think. As CoffeeHorse notes elsewhere, while people may have been more exposed to the cartoon (whether via terrestrial broadcast or the movie), it's not like the broader public followed or retained much about it in depth, let alone the origin story only revealed in the third season (after a polarizing movie that killed off the lead and that many then thought ended the franchise).
For fans I can see the appeal of the Primus origin as something more ambitious than "these goofy aliens from what felt like a random filler scene in the movie? They actually made the Transformers". Especially as an alternative rather than the primary idea, if some (like me) encountered or became aware of this after having seen the Quintesson origin, maybe having to seek it out in a niche of a niche (not just the comics, at the time far less mainstream, but an outside-the-US run). The more florid writing and the leaning on familiar mythological/even religious tropes help sell it too, and a mystical or mythical element is a useful, fun narrative card to play. Even the narrative mess of the movies looked to reconcile these a bit with Quintessa, who is a fascinating way to play with the concept that isn't done much with, in traditional Bayhem fashion.
It also kind of avoids muddying the situation by having the Transformers (aliens) be created by aliens who are aliens to them. (For stories where the Transformers are presented as aliens this kind of requires two layers of presenting a set of characters as alien and unfamiliar and bringing in all the associated tropes.) TF One has them both just be neighboring alien races, which is an easier story to tell.
(I'm not saying the Quintesson origin is without merit, as there are a lot of narrative possibilities there too. I'm mostly just trying to trace how the Primus origin might have ultimately won out at Hasbro as the more marketable option.)
I haven't missed that specific one myself, but it's fair to say it was due to be seen again, to be revisited and experimented with.
The question of which (Sunbow/UK comic) would be more familiar to the general public shouldn't really influence which origin would be more sensible to use in media, I don't think. As CoffeeHorse notes elsewhere, while people may have been more exposed to the cartoon (whether via terrestrial broadcast or the movie), it's not like the broader public followed or retained much about it in depth, let alone the origin story only revealed in the third season (after a polarizing movie that killed off the lead and that many then thought ended the franchise).
For fans I can see the appeal of the Primus origin as something more ambitious than "these goofy aliens from what felt like a random filler scene in the movie? They actually made the Transformers". Especially as an alternative rather than the primary idea, if some (like me) encountered or became aware of this after having seen the Quintesson origin, maybe having to seek it out in a niche of a niche (not just the comics, at the time far less mainstream, but an outside-the-US run). The more florid writing and the leaning on familiar mythological/even religious tropes help sell it too, and a mystical or mythical element is a useful, fun narrative card to play. Even the narrative mess of the movies looked to reconcile these a bit with Quintessa, who is a fascinating way to play with the concept that isn't done much with, in traditional Bayhem fashion.
It also kind of avoids muddying the situation by having the Transformers (aliens) be created by aliens who are aliens to them. (For stories where the Transformers are presented as aliens this kind of requires two layers of presenting a set of characters as alien and unfamiliar and bringing in all the associated tropes.) TF One has them both just be neighboring alien races, which is an easier story to tell.
(I'm not saying the Quintesson origin is without merit, as there are a lot of narrative possibilities there too. I'm mostly just trying to trace how the Primus origin might have ultimately won out at Hasbro as the more marketable option.)
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I wouldn't say so either, but I do think it's interesting that the more widespread version of G1 isn't necessarily what became the basis going forward like you'd think it would.
Not saying it's a bad thing- the Marvel version has its merits and you did a good job explaining why the Primus origin is probably an easier sell- but it is still fascinating. Like the Pokemon Adventures manga tells a deeper story than the anime, but the anime is still going to be that touchstone for people re: extra-game media because it's the version more people experienced.
But for Transformers the version most people saw kind of got usurped. There's an interesting case study in how fandom interacts with the material somewhere in all of that.
I didn't think I was missing it either, but when SkyBound led with that, it was like cold water. Like "oh yeah! This thing! G-d, it's been a minute hasn't it?"
Kind of like when you wander back into your old neighbourhood years after you move. Maybe you haven't thought about it in years, but there's a refreshing excitement once you start looking around again.
DWJ has also said that the SkyBound EU tends to lean into Sunbow stuff because it tends to get overlooked. Like how they went with the Cobra-La origin for Cobra.
Like... the serious business terrorist org born from a disillusioned used car salesman or the centuries old secret society with a SPECTRE like grip on the world's criminality are both fun, but each has been done plenty of times.
Makes for a return to the animated stuff that was rejected as too goofy years ago suddenly feel refreshing.
I'm always down for a take that revisits lesser-lights of the past. Not so much to "fix" things or "do them right", because that way is also fraught with possible self-indulgence and blind spots (but it's nice when it works), but just to keep things fresh and to make use of stuff that's just been in boxes. Morrison's RIP-era, Black Casebook remixes of Batman history was a fascinating run partly for that reason.
Like I said, the cartoon origin was likely more widespread but wasn't quite as entrenched in the general audience's minds partly because it was delivered so late. So that aspect of the mythos was still malleable for that audience, as opposed to things established AND maintained earlier on. Cynically but, I feel, accurately, the next big part of the puzzle there might have just been whoever got the pen first and longest got to make the call for what direction to set. But it may also be a pendulum, and it may swing back at some point.
Part of me likes the Quintessons being displaced as THE creators, because the need to find new roles for them can be fun. I was curious about where this would go in early IDW, but I don't know if that amounted to anything. The notion of them being a ruthless economic force in Animated was intriguing. And the notion of them being connected in some way to Quintus, and whatever's up with Quintessa, could be interesting to explore too.
Like I said, the cartoon origin was likely more widespread but wasn't quite as entrenched in the general audience's minds partly because it was delivered so late. So that aspect of the mythos was still malleable for that audience, as opposed to things established AND maintained earlier on. Cynically but, I feel, accurately, the next big part of the puzzle there might have just been whoever got the pen first and longest got to make the call for what direction to set. But it may also be a pendulum, and it may swing back at some point.
Part of me likes the Quintessons being displaced as THE creators, because the need to find new roles for them can be fun. I was curious about where this would go in early IDW, but I don't know if that amounted to anything. The notion of them being a ruthless economic force in Animated was intriguing. And the notion of them being connected in some way to Quintus, and whatever's up with Quintessa, could be interesting to explore too.
Excuse you?!
"Not iconic"?!?
Would they have made this, if that scene weren't iconic?
Check and mate.