Hyrule Town Square
- Thread starter Caldwin
- Start date
Except Nintendo has always perpetuated the notion that one game comes before or after another. They left a few vague, at least for a time, but even without them, they still had something in place.
Now, they could just throw their hands up and go that route, and it would solve a lot of headaches... but it seems pretty clear they ain't gonna. Not at this point, and not when it generates so much discussion regarding the franchise. And probably not as long as there are people who likely think they need to play everything to get the full picture, thus allowing them to keep old games relevant and primed for re-releasing with NSO, remakes, and the like.
I won't be surprised if they say the movie is canon, too. Because why not?
Thanks for the information. Right on first viewing, the thing that stands out to me is that this is showing discrepancies between OoT with Link victorious and the ALttP backstory. I think we've already agreed that OoT, as a game where you successfully complete it and watch the ending, doesn't match ALttP. Nintendo apparently agrees, hence the Downfall timeline. This table doesn't appear to be intended to address the Downfall timeline at all.So, exactly the same as it has been since OOT itself first released, then.
These are all of the major contradictions between ALTTP's backstory and OOT:
(P.S.: I do not know why the columns in the above table aren't the same width, nor can I figure out how to make them the same width, instead of having the first column being so much wider than the second)
A Link to the Past backstory lore Ocarina of Time in-game story events Ganondorf led a band of thieves in search of the Sacred Realm, whose entrance no one (including Ganondorf) knew the whereabouts of. Ganondorf knew the Sacred Realm's entrance was inside the Temple of Time all along, and meticulously manipulated Link, Zelda, and the tribes of Hyrule into granting him access to it. Ganondorf first set foot inside the Sacred Realm along upon initially finding the entrance by complete chance/coincidence/happenstance with his band of thieves, who all entered the Sacred Realm along with him. Ganondorf first set foot inside the Sacred Realm after his aformentioned meticulous manipulation led to Link opening the entrance to the Sacred Realm located inside the Temple of Time, which Ganondorf entered alone, by himself, with no band of thieves to accompany him. Ganondorf acquired the full Triforce after his first setting foot inside the Sacred Realm and being the last one left alive when he and his band of thieves all fought each other over the Triforce while inside the Sacred Realm; Ganondorf then keeps the full Triforce in his possession all the way up until his defeat at the very end of the game, centuries after the Imprisoning War. When Ganondorf first touched the Triforce upon his first setting foot inside the Sacred Realm, the Triforce split because Ganondorf's heart was out of balance, so he only got the Triforce of Power, and never acquired the full Triforce before he got sealed away at the end of the game. Ganondorf couldn't figure out how to get back out of the Sacred Realm after he first entered it, and stays inside it from the moment he first entered it all the way to his defeat at the end of the game, never physically returning back to Hyrule outside the Sacred Realm (one of the Maidens subtly indicates that Ganondorf's lack of knowing how to get back out of the Sacred Realm is meant to contrast with Link's own ability to warp in and out of the Dark World via the Magic Mirror, indicating that Ganondorf needed the mirror in order to get back out, but couldn't because he didn't have it or possibly didn't even know about its existence or its Light World/Dark World warping ability). Ganondorf got right back out of the Sacred Realn with no trouble at all right after he first acquired the Triforce of Power from there; he then went on to rule over Hyrule for seven long years. Ganondorf became his pig-demon Ganon form after first getting the Triforce from within the Sacred Realm (there is more nuance to this as well, as the Japanese game manual also indicates that, back when he was the human man Ganondorf, he was also better known by the alias of "Demon Thief Ganon" before ever first becoming his pig-demon form, indicating that he was already using the name "Ganon" before ever even first becoming a porcine beast Demon King. There are also hints in the game that his pig-demon form was actually the form he became when the Sacred Realm was corrupted into the Dark World, as we see the Dark World transforming people from the Light World into animal or monster forms upon their first arriving there, like how Link is changed into a rabbit during his first visit to the Dark World before acquiring the Moon Pearl that lets him keep his Light World human form while inside the Dark World, but later games would never touch upon this notion ever again). Ganondorf remained in his human Gerudo form for seven whole years, not yet becoming his pig-demon Ganon form until the very end of the game (a transformation which was explicitly triggered by his use of the Triforce of Power, just that single piece rather than either all three pieces together or via exposure to any corruptive otherworldly influence like how the Dark World affected people from the Light World who did not have a Moon Pearl to let them keep their Light World forms). Ganon then reverted back to his human Ganondorf form after being defeated. The Seven Sages who were active in this Imprisoning War were all bearded/mustachioed elderly human men dressed in different colored robes according to the game's official promotional art found in the likes of the game's manual and player's guide. The Seven Sages who were awakened during this game's events were a bearded Hylian old man dress in a golden robe, a Kokiri girl, a Goron, a Zora princess, a Sheikah woman, a Gerudo woman, and a Hylian princess. Only one of them matches the description (and species) of the Seven Sages of ALTTP's backstory. During the Imprisoning War, the Sages are aware of the legendary Master Sword but its location has become lost to time. They search for both the sword and for a hero who could wield it in Hyrule's defense, but are unable to find either, due to the urgency of the escalating war. During this game's events, the Master Sword's location is known of and Link, the sword's chosen hero, wields it in Hyrule's defense. But the Sages (minus Rauru) all need to be found, discovered, and awoken as Sages, rather than there already being a fully active preexisting group of Seven Sages during this time. To end the Imprisoning War, the Seven Sages were summoned by the King of Hyrule (who was still around during this war) to cast a seal on the source of evil pouring out of the Dark World while the Knights of Hyrule fought off this evil, sacrficing their lives so that the Sages could complete their seal on Ganon, cutting the Demon King off from the Light World for good. To end the events of this game's story, the Seven Sages sealed Ganondorf inside a void beyond the world of the dead. There is no King or no Knights of Hyrule involved, as Link is present and does all the fighting against Ganon by himself The final battle of the Imprisoning War takes place across the Light and Dark Worlds, with Ganon inside the latter while the King, Sages, and Knights remain within the former. The final battle of this game takes place in Hyrule amid the fallen ruins of Ganondorf's castle, with Ganondorf having transformed into Ganon and battled Link directly in close combat, while the Sages (minus Zelda) remained inside the Chamber of Sages within the Light Temple of the Sacred Realm. When he is sealed by the Seven Sages, Ganon still has the complete Triforce in his possession. When he is sealed by the Seven Sages, Ganondorf only has the Triforce of Power in his possession. The Sacred Realm remains as a World of Darkness from the moment Ganondorf first touched the Triforce all the way up to his defeat at the end of the game, centuries after the Imprisoning War The Sacred Realm is seemingly de-corrupted after Ganondorf is sealed away, reverting back to a heavenly cloud world based on Link and Zelda's surroundings after the final battle with Ganon (that is, if that final scene where Zelda sends Link back in time really is set inside the Sacred Realm, as from the game's technical perspective it was situated high up in the sky above Hyrule Field rather than being a new location built from scratch, but there is no sensible reason for Link and Zelda to suddenly literally be high up in the sky above Hyrule Field at that--or at any--point in the game).
Not that the Downfall timeline would let someone just handwave away all the discrepancies. I mean, Ganondorf doesn't simply stumble his way in, but knows he needs Link to claim the Master Sword to open the way. But the biggest discrepancies are either mitigated with the Downfall timeline, or can be relatively easily smoothed over. I'd say Ganondorf only having the Triforce of Power is the biggest discrepancy listed, and that doesn't apply if Ganon kills Link and has Zelda right there, now undefended, with the final piece. Likewise, the Sacred Realm would still be the Dark World in that scenario, since Ganon hasn't been defeated (if that even is supposed to be the Sacred Realm in OoT's ending). The Sages didn't need to go searching for the Master Sword or a hero to wield it in OoT, but you could argue that they weren't able to find a hero worthy of it if OoT Link ultimately failed.
The biggest real discrepancy between the Downfall timeline and ALttP is still the Imprisoning War, IMO. I did get to spend a bit more time going over the TotG manual translations. The Imprisoning War does take place after Ganon is stuck in the Sacred Realm with the full Triforce, but there's nothing in the ALttP backstory that supports the idea that there was one conflict to seal Ganon away in there, and then a separate one to seal the Sacred Realm itself. I stand by my preference of treating the entire conflict to seal Ganon away after Link's failure as the Imprisoning War. It's still not a perfect fit, but I believe it's the smallest modification that brings the official timeline in line with what's actually in the games.
I know, double post, but these two posts combined with all the text from Sabrblade's table was too long for one post.
I completely agree with the idea that web site metadata cannot overrule anything in the games themselves. It's a moot point though, because the games don't touch on this. Like the entire timeline itself, it's supplemental to the games. If the games were explicit on all this, there'd be nothing to discuss.
Beyond that, I disagree with the further step she tries to take it. The timeline numbering does not have any deep meaning that somehow undercuts the argument, as she seems to imply. There are six segments to the timeline:
- The beginning up to OoT
- The downfall timeline
- The Wild era shared epilogue
- OoT Link is victorious, but before choosing which timeline split
- The child timeline
- The adult timeline
The Wild era is segment 3 simply because it first appears immediately after segment 2. Since it's shared, it's still segment 3 regardless of whether segment 2, 5, or 6 is the one you choose for any particular viewing. It's just that simple. Trying to assign some deeper meaning to it, seemingly for no other reason than to try to discredit the "shared epilogue" wording, undercuts her entire argument. IMO, she would have been better off just not including that entire segment.
I also still disagree with the idea stated in the video that Nintendo hasn't placed it on the timeline. They have, years ago now. It's long after the classic games, regardless of which timeline you go down. The only thing they haven't done is tie it to a specific timeline through specific events... because they don't want it tied to a specific timeline or set of events. I mean, by all means, dislike that approach all you want. Headcanon it away, provide alternative possibilities, rail at Nintendo for a poor choice, whatever. But watching someone essentially say, "I don't like that choice, so I'm going to tell everyone they never made a choice" is incredibly frustrating.
Whenever people start fussing about the Zelda “canon” or “timeline”, my eyes cross, my head begins to ache, and I think back to when Takara tried their convoluted mess of trying to incorporate anything even tangentially related to G1 into a singular canon.
Best Buy still has their Zelda Switch 2 as coming soon. Hopefully I will be able to get my kids one from there. They really want to get the new switch.
Eh, call me when they do a Zelda 2 Switch, then I'll be interested!
I was wondering what that would look like, but I think it would have Link on one side and his shadow on the other, with maybe Zelda laying down on her sick bed in between.
Good luck. Today I once again saw the Preorder button light up, waited in line, and they were all gone. I'm wondering now if they really have units available, or the site is glitching (or they're lying about it to keep site traffic up).
I have been watching that pre-order page, but it hasn't come back for pre-ordering in the last two weeks. Unfortunately, the $400 in credit I have expires in November, so I might have to get a different version of the Switch 2. Other than the games, is there any reason to get the Switch Sports Resort bundle over the Mario Kart bundle or the plain Switch 2?
I just had that happen to me just now. I clicked the yellow button, it made me wait in line, made me log back in again despite being logged in, and then said it was unavailable.
Yeah, that's happened quite a few times to me. I've been keeping the site open and refreshing about once an hour when I'm awake/not busy. I've noticed a pattern where the "shipping not available" changes to a yellow prompt showing my zipcode. Sometime after that, the Preorder button will highlight. Even if it says "sold out" right away, if you refresh a few times and retry, then it gives the "waiting in line" msg.
Once I caught the Preorder button very quickly after it highlighted, and it was sold out. I definitely suspect scalpers have bots ordering these, and/or the site is wonky. I'm skeptical that Best Buy is continually getting units in while every other site has remained sold out. Still, I keep trying...
Once I caught the Preorder button very quickly after it highlighted, and it was sold out. I definitely suspect scalpers have bots ordering these, and/or the site is wonky. I'm skeptical that Best Buy is continually getting units in while every other site has remained sold out. Still, I keep trying...
Wow! I can't believe they just put Rapidash right into the game!
Well Nintendo does own part of the Pokemon company.
So my daughter was playing Tears of the Kingdom last night and was trying to find a Lord of the mountain also called a satori. She found the place where you get him to show up to reveal places to get components for his armor. However, she can't find anywhere to get the mount. I looked online but I can't find any videos on where to look for it to get the mount. Any ideas where to look for it?
Not sure what you mean by "the mount." If you mean like how in Breath of the Wild where you could sneak up on him and ride him temporarily, you can't do that in this game. In this game, there are 8 cherry blossom trees you can offer fruit at and he'll show you cave locations. That's his only role in this game.
Thanks for the help! There is a video showing someone sneaking up on one, freezing it, taming it, and then riding it, but maybe that is just them trolling.
So Amazon has the Switch 2 Ocarina of Time pre-order for $59.99 today, so I went ahead and pre-ordered it there for my kids to have at Christmas since I doubt it will be on sale for much cheaper before this Christmas. Still no luck on the Zelda Switch 2, but I have resigned myself that it's just not going to happen, and that a normal Switch 2 will be just as loved by the kids. I am thinking of getting the one without any games, and trying to find Mario Kart World on sale this holiday season. Mainly, I just would prefer to have it on physical media rather than just the code on the machine.
So Amazon has the Switch 2 Ocarina of Time pre-order for $59.99 today, so I went ahead and pre-ordered it there for my kids to have at Christmas since I doubt it will be on sale for much cheaper before this Christmas. Still no luck on the Zelda Switch 2, but I have resigned myself that it's just not going to happen, and that a normal Switch 2 will be just as loved by the kids. I am thinking of getting the one without any games, and trying to find Mario Kart World on sale this holiday season. Mainly, I just would prefer to have it on physical media rather than just the code on the machine.
So I Googled "Zelda Switch 2 Console" and that seems to be the best way to get to the Amazon page. (Searching on the Amazon site itself didn't bring it up weirdly enough) But the Pre-Order button seems to be working, so I assume they have some pre-orders available.