Generations 2027: No More Primes! It is the Age of Evolution!

Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
Citizen
LordGigaIce said:
And the same, however, it did unquestionably lay the foundations for the "two simultaneous lines, one of which is more fan geared" template that the brand would later embrace. Generations was a continuation of Universe 2008, which was a revival of Classics. Which replaced Universe 2003. Which itself a was a replacement for post-Armada RiD 2001. The bridge between that and MW is tenuous, but MW was certainly a second line at retail alongside the main line that had a more nostalgic focus.

Still, it was the first of what would become commonplace, a trend that would begat multiple collector-oriented lines.

I don't think you can easily discount that.
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I don’t really buy into ALL of that. I really don’t buy into the idea that Machine Wars was “fan geared” aside from reusing names, aesthetics and iconography that Beast Wars had reimagined. And I also don’t really buy into Machine Wars being THAT instrumental into how the brand would be handled years later.
I CERTAINLY don’t agree with any assertion that the Extended Robots in Disguise and original Universe lines were fan geared any meaningful way. Again, aside from a novel deco, they were simply “old stuff we could repaint to get more stuff to sell on shelves”. The fact fans got some nifty deco concepts out of it was a bonus.

In addition, Hasbro has said before that Classics was a filler segment due to the delay of the first feature film (the entire Minicon assortment were planned for release under Cybertron 2 pack format). Aaron Archer even remarked that, prior the retro designs, they actually made an effort to dig up some of the abandoned Transtech models. It wasn’t outright DESIGNED for fans, the fan focus was a bonus. Neither was Universe 2, which was a response to retailer desire for more “realistic” Transformers in contrast to the stylized nature of Animated. The fact they could carry on the fan-friendly approach of Classics was a BONUS, but not the core driver of its existence.

I think that, maybe, some of you are making more of what Machine Wars was, and potentially intended to be, than what it could ever have been in 1997: Beast Wars made Transformers a viable brand again, some at Hasbro/Kenner were still floating the idea of continuing/bringing back vehicular Transformers. Retailers didn’t seem interested, but Kenner got KB to carry Machine Wars to gauge consumer interest in vehicular Transformers. In doing so, Kenner was able to rush out some leftover G2 and Euro molds the US market hadn’t seen and make use of some trademarks that might not have been appropriate in the Beast Wars segment (yes, I know Prowl was ridiculously overused). The fact that approach correlated to what older fans were wanting was a BONUS, such as it was.
 
LordGigaIce

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Steevy Maximus said:
And I also don’t really buy into Machine Wars being THAT instrumental into how the brand would be handled years later....I CERTAINLY don’t agree with any assertion that the Extended Robots in Disguise and original Universe lines were fan geared any meaningful way.
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Agree or not, whatever. Factually speaking MW, post-Armada RiD, and Universe '03 were all stop-and-start experiments with running duel lines at retail. Which is what ended up becoming the norm for the line.

Regardless of what they were intended to be, they dabbled in that fan space and they absolutely provided Hasbro with lessons and experiences for how to split the Transformers brand among multiple lines at once.

Steevy Maximus said:
I think that, maybe, some of you are making more of what Machine Wars was, and potentially intended to be
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It ain't that deep man. Some of us liked the line and are happy to see it get its flowers twenty years later.

"YOU'RE MAKING TOO MUCH OF IT"

Cool. I'll be enjoying my updated MW Starscream and Megatron.
 
CoffeeHorse

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
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Council of Elders
Citizen
lastmaximal said:
I don't know that "geared to collectors" in 1997 means the same thing that "geared to collectors" means in 2026, and the comparison is a little odd to even make.

In 1997 they were clearly targeting people who wanted trukk, not munky, by giving them trukk, not munky. That was as "collector" as it got at the time, and as much as Hasbro (perhaps rightly) felt it called for. I don't think it was ever any deeper than that.
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Star Wars was absolutely giving Hasbro a first rate education about grumpy collectors at the time.
 
Sabrblade

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Of course, there was another side line that preceded Machine Wars that was the first side line to try to cashing in on nostalgia for the early years of the brand while newer products were on the shelves in the main line: the European "Classics" subline that ran from 1990-1991, during the Action Masters era, complete with its own unique gold-colored packaging that distinguished it from the main-line toys.
 
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LBD "Nytetrayn"

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Sciflyer said:
Edit: I am still salty about BM not getting much love. Those Vehicon Generals deserve some modern-day touches, and it would be such a breath of fresh air to see new versions.
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Yeah, nuts that they're just painting the whole show with one brush when I think the Vehicons might've had more fans than the Maximals!

At least in terms of designs/toys.
 
Andrusi

Andrusi

Lun!
Citizen
The Mighty Mollusk said:
Y'know, now I kinda want to see the Megatron combiner all repainted as various not-Megatrons. Megaplex, Archforce, Predacon, and.....I can't think of a not-Megatron from the Gobots mold, and I really don't want to say Legion. Maybe one of the Alternity color schemes?
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I mean, Gobots Megatron himself was a redeco of Blowout. He's an Autobot, but shh.
 
The Mighty Mollusk

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Andrusi said:
I mean, Gobots Megatron himself was a redeco of Blowout. He's an Autobot, but shh.
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....Okay, now I have the thought of Takara doing a set of all Autobots from the molds, but the tank is Reverse Convoy, and his master plan was to steal this new combiner's power all along. And now I kinda want to see that, too.
 
Sabrblade

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
The Mighty Mollusk said:
I can't think of a not-Megatron from the Gobots mold
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Andrusi said:
I mean, Gobots Megatron himself was a redeco of Blowout. He's an Autobot, but shh.
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The only other Decepticon release of that mold besides Megatron was as Frenzy.

G2-toy_Frenzy.jpg


Every later release was as the Car Robots/RiD Autobot Spychanger Art Fire/Hot Shot.
 
The Predaking

The Predaking

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Steevy Maximus said:
Not a chance would Overlord would have seen release. Too big, probably too expensive for the relative nature of the line in 1997-8. I basically see two scenarios for any follow up Machine Wars might have had:
If REALLY successful, Hasbro probably would have done some kind of relaunch in mid-1998 with new tools as I think Kenner was toying with in 1996.

The more likely scenario where Machine Wars just did okay, but well enough that KB would want more, I think "Series 2" would probably have been another round of unused G2 assets mixed with some Euro G1/G2 product with a focus on trademark securing:
The Auto-Roller APC and Jet probably would have been released (Prowl and Thrust?) in a deluxe-ish range
The top range probably would have been Pyro (Optimus Prime, again) and possibly Clench (Shockwave?)
The Mega-equivalent might have been the a mix of the Euro Lightformers and Trakkons. (Ironhide (Ironfist) and Starscream (Fearswoop)?)
The lowest end might have seen the final batch of GoBots, possibly individually for less than the going Basic rate. Which would be a trademark grabbag.
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Size wise, Overlord is a bit bigger than MW Starscream, but that is the thing. The way I proposed it, It's meant to be the big toy of the second wave. The crowning figure of the toyline. However, it runs into a problem where you have an issue that you can't just call it a pre-existing character that everyone knows. I mean, you could call it Megatron, but the base mode makes no sense for that. You could call it Blitzwing, given the alt modes, but that name wouldn't mean that much to the average person. So while I do agree with you that they probably wouldn't use the toy given what the line was meant to do, I still wish that they had done it. Then they could have brought back PM Optimus Prime with GB called Roller to have as the big Autobot toy. Like I said, I doubt that they could have done this, but it is nice to dream about.
 
The Predaking

The Predaking

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LordGigaIce said:
When I said "post-Armada RiD" I meant the RiD line that continued to be ordered by stores even after Armada launched.

It was post-the launch of Armada. Or post-Armada if you will.

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I am having flashbacks of arguing about that not being the RID toyline proper and basically just Universe 0.5 before they changed the name to get retailers to look at it again.
 
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