Energon Universe - ongoing Transformers and G.I. Joe comics from Skybound

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Ideally, something along the tone of Adult Swim's "My Adventures with Superman" would be great.
Yeah I dig that show. It's a good one.

I just find the notion of "this franchise can't be X 😠" to be really limiting.

I think both IDW and SkyBound have proven that you can go in a more mature direction with this franchise and have it work, so I'm not going to be hesitant about adaptations of that stuff.

This isn't to say that the more whimsy and kid stuff is bad- it's provided some of this franchise's best work- but the idea of "they said X, X is bad!" is counterproductive to creative storytelling.

X can be good if the time and effort is put into it. So let's not write it off because past attempts at X have fallen short.
 
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Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
It's just, when you hear the words "Adult Animation", that genre tends to come with the caveat of heavily featuring the likes of gore, sex, crass humor, and/or frequent F-bombs.

Batman: The Animated Series had none of that stuff and is largely considered to be more mature in the truest sense of the word than most actual "Adult Animation".
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Batman: The Animated Series had none of that stuff and is largely considered to be more mature in the truest sense of the word than most actual "Adult Animation".
I just think that sometimes fandom can be a bit.... bludgeon-y (as opposed to Bludgeon-y :p ).
Like... cards on the table? I love BTAS. Batman is one of my favourite characters in pop culture, and BTAS was in many ways my intro to that world, to the point where I hear Kevin Conroy's voice in my head any time I read Bruce's dialogue in a Batman comic.
But... and this may not be super popular in these parts... I kinda find it irritating when people either put it WAY up on like five pedestals or use it to put other versions of the franchise down. I'm just kind of over some people always bringing up BTAS when trashing whatever live action Batman series offended them that week.
It's a good show. Amazing even, and you're not wrong about the maturity level... but it's also not perfect. It can be dumb or goofy at times. None of this takes away from it, but I'm tired of everything being held to some impossible gold standard that even the thing in question didn't truly live up to.

Circling back, you mentioned a great CS Lewis quote, about how nothing is quite as childish as the desire to seem very grown up.
Which is a great quote, and one we in this fandom (and others) should take to heart.
But I also feel like it's used to bludgeon... well... topics like this.
Like BTAS, I've heard so much about how Rescue Bots is the greatest Transformers cartoon of the last fifteen or so years, and how it just embraces being a fun kids show and isn't afraid to be what it is, and it does it so well...
...only unlike BTAS, I've never seen Rescue Bots. And truth be told? The energy and forcefulness some of its fans push it any time it comes up make me not want to engage with it. Chances are it can't possibly live up to the hype that's been sold to me, even if it is quite good in its own right. The eagerness to use it as a shining becon has made me not interested, just how like the eagerness to always praise BTAS, even if it means bashing other adpatations, has made me weary of a show I genuinely enjoy and have many fond memories of.

And to take this a step further, yes... edginess and excessive violence, gore, swears, and sex are very adolescent, ie not really mature... but this "it's childish to want to seem grown up" mentality now seems like a fandom sacred cow in some circles, where if you even ponder the idea of a Transformers story that dares to actually try to be a bit more mature with its themes, you get lumped in with the Buckets of Blood crowd. And it can be frustrating, in terms of discourse.
This is compounded because IDW did all of this, and yet I can't help but wonder if the same people pontificating doom and gloom for a SkyBound adapation would be singing a different tune if IDW's stuff was getting adapted instead.

What's wild to me is that this much doom and gloom and "oh no they said 'adult animation' it'll be nothing but blood and gore and curse words" mentality is being bandied about for a show that will be adapting known material.
This will be a show about SkyBound's Transformers comic. A very commerically and critically acclaimed comic. That is a known quantity. You don't even have to read them to get the gist of the story. As of this post, TFWiki has summeries of the first 25 issues.

"OMG IT'LL BE SWEARS NON-STOP" or "OMG THE DECEPTICONS ARE GOING TO VAPORIZE HUMANS LEFT AND RIGHT" like... that's not what this comic is. There is action, there is violence, but that applies to like 90% of Transformers media. This will be a show based on a known comic, helmed by people with a track record making critically acclaimed adult-oriented animation based on comic books...

forgive me if I'm weary over the knee-jerk "they said 'adult,' assume the worst" reactions.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I just think that sometimes fandom can be a bit.... bludgeon-y (as opposed to Bludgeon-y :p ).
Like... cards on the table? I love BTAS. Batman is one of my favourite characters in pop culture, and BTAS was in many ways my intro to that world, to the point where I hear Kevin Conroy's voice in my head any time I read Bruce's dialogue in a Batman comic.
But... and this may not be super popular in these parts... I kinda find it irritating when people either put it WAY up on like five pedestals or use it to put other versions of the franchise down. I'm just kind of over some people always bringing up BTAS when trashing whatever live action Batman series offended them that week.
It's a good show. Amazing even, and you're not wrong about the maturity level... but it's also not perfect. It can be dumb or goofy at times. None of this takes away from it, but I'm tired of everything being held to some impossible gold standard that even the thing in question didn't truly live up to.
Truth be told, I was originally going to cite The Legend of Prince Valiant instead as an example of a very mature yet still G-rated animated series, but I opted out of it because I figured that's way more obscure a show and so went with a frame of reference that more folks round here would have a greater familiarity with.

Circling back, you mentioned a great CS Lewis quote, about how nothing is quite as childish as the desire to seem very grown up.
Wait, what? I didn't realize I was quoting Lewis. Genuinely. I pulled that out of my own subconscious. If I've heard it from somewhere else before, I've honestly forgotten.

forgive me if I'm weary over the knee-jerk "they said 'adult,' assume the worst" reactions.
They really need to invent a new term for animation that is aimed at older viewers without being crude or graphic. "Highbrow Animation", perhaps?
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
They really need to invent a new term for animation that is aimed at older viewers without being crude or graphic. "Highbrow Animation", perhaps?
"Prestige animation" perhaps? I donno.

Going back to Batman, not too long ago the comics introduced Punchline. A new female sidekick/protege of the Joker. News sites covering it called her "The Joker's New Girlfriend," or "The New Harley Quinn."
Neither was accurate to who or what Punchline was a character but "Joker's new girlfriend" or "the new Harley" were effective buzz phrases that could be used to generate clicks and interest.

I suspect the same thing is happening here. To the majority of the general audience, Transformers cartoons are aimed at kids. I would bet you could ask ten people on the street about the Prime Wars or WfC shows, and you could get all ten not even knowing they exist.
So when you have some big names behind this attempt to do it, leading with the "Transformers Cartoon But it's Adult" headline is an easy way to generate clicks. Those headlines may not even be strictly accurate, and they're not even for us anyway. They're for Joe Middle Management who remembers liking Transformers as a kid, and who might check out a more mature cartoon if he reads that it's for "adults."
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
"Prestige animation" perhaps? I donno.
Oh no. That calls to mind "Prestige Television", which can border on X-rated material.

Going back to Batman, not too long ago the comics introduced Punchline. A new female sidekick/protege of the Joker. News sites covering it called her "The Joker's New Girlfriend," or "The New Harley Quinn."
Neither was accurate to who or what Punchline was a character but "Joker's new girlfriend" or "the new Harley" were effective buzz phrases that could be used to generate clicks and interest.
Alas, no one ever remembers his one-episode sidekick Prank from The Batman.

I suspect the same thing is happening here. To the majority of the general audience, Transformers cartoons are aimed at kids. I would bet you could ask ten people on the street about the Prime Wars or WfC shows, and you could get all ten not even knowing they exist.
So when you have some big names behind this attempt to do it, leading with the "Transformers Cartoon But it's Adult" headline is an easy way to generate clicks. Those headlines may not even be strictly accurate, and they're not even for us anyway. They're for Joe Middle Management who remembers liking Transformers as a kid, and who might check out a more mature cartoon if he reads that it's for "adults."
We can also probably thank the Michael Bay movies for giving people an impression of what "Transformers but for ADULTS" looks like.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Oh no. That calls to mind "Prestige Television", which can border on X-rated material.
It can, but to me "Prestige Television" is more about turning tv seasons into one long narrative, forgoing the episodic aspect of storytelling. Criminal Minds is really useful because it ran for fifteen seasons as a standard tv show before it got picked up the "prestige streaming show" treatment and the way each format is handled is very starkly contrasted.

Which is preferred is up to the individual (though I am starting to miss tv shows that embraced being tv shows instead of drawn out movies) but yeah... my mind tends to go there when I hear "prestige television."
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
I think that’s where our disconnect is.

You can absolutely be mature with themes. Swerve realizing that peace and happiness are different things? That’s mature. Nightshade having to find out who he is and where he fits in? That’s mature.

I’m not against *violence* but it doesn’t need to be exploitive or graphic. Superman has similar (or more) strength than Invincible characters but his fights don’t use several metric tons of blood to get across conflict like both the show and comic Invincible do.

Starscream can crush a pilot in his hands but we don’t need to see him open them up again with a crushed rib cage and dangling entrails with the human spitting up blood and gasping for breath.
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
I just think that sometimes fandom can be a bit.... bludgeon-y (as opposed to Bludgeon-y :p ).
Like... cards on the table? I love BTAS. Batman is one of my favourite characters in pop culture, and BTAS was in many ways my intro to that world, to the point where I hear Kevin Conroy's voice in my head any time I read Bruce's dialogue in a Batman comic.
But... and this may not be super popular in these parts... I kinda find it irritating when people either put it WAY up on like five pedestals or use it to put other versions of the franchise down. I'm just kind of over some people always bringing up BTAS when trashing whatever live action Batman series offended them that week.
It's a good show. Amazing even, and you're not wrong about the maturity level... but it's also not perfect. It can be dumb or goofy at times. None of this takes away from it, but I'm tired of everything being held to some impossible gold standard that even the thing in question didn't truly live up to.

Circling back, you mentioned a great CS Lewis quote, about how nothing is quite as childish as the desire to seem very grown up.
Which is a great quote, and one we in this fandom (and others) should take to heart.
But I also feel like it's used to bludgeon... well... topics like this.
Like BTAS, I've heard so much about how Rescue Bots is the greatest Transformers cartoon of the last fifteen or so years, and how it just embraces being a fun kids show and isn't afraid to be what it is, and it does it so well...
...only unlike BTAS, I've never seen Rescue Bots. And truth be told? The energy and forcefulness some of its fans push it any time it comes up make me not want to engage with it. Chances are it can't possibly live up to the hype that's been sold to me, even if it is quite good in its own right. The eagerness to use it as a shining becon has made me not interested, just how like the eagerness to always praise BTAS, even if it means bashing other adpatations, has made me weary of a show I genuinely enjoy and have many fond memories of.

I kinda have the same reaction to the original Final Fantasy 7. With how many pedestals it gets put on.
 

Swerve

Life of the Party
Citizen
I am fine with a more adult storyline similar to what the Skybound comics are.....my concern is when they say they want an MA rated show I feel they are going in a different direction than the comics. I don't feel we need a direct adaptation of the Skybound comics per se, but a story similar in spirit would be okay.
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
FF IX appreciators rise up!

My favorites go 6, 9, and 4. Six still has one of the best plots for me, just becuase the Bad guy wins... and that's only half the story. You don't get many stories that explore what happens if/when the bad guy wins. But 9 has one of the best emotional arcs in the series and has what is still my favorite song 'You are not alone.'
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I am fine with a more adult storyline similar to what the Skybound comics are.....my concern is when they say they want an MA rated show I feel they are going in a different direction than the comics. I don't feel we need a direct adaptation of the Skybound comics per se, but a story similar in spirit would be okay.
This right here. It's like back when Bay was still directing the live action movies and some fans kept wishing that he would stop being such a weenie and go for a full R rating, as if that would somehow prove that Transformers is totally for mature adults and not sissy babies.
 


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