It's the Muppet Thread
- Thread starter Cybersnark
- Start date
I saw it, and honestly, I really liked it. Very true to the original!
I liked it, but I do have notes:
Lose the cameos. I know Seth is the producer, but he and Maya Rudolph didn't actually add anything. The movies are stuffed with cameos, but the show was always meant to spotlight one particular guest (unless the "guest" is specifically a group). This is the same thing that made the previous "The Muppets" series such a mess; the more celebrities want to poke their heads in, the less focused everything feels. If Seth and Maya wanted to be onscreen, then they should get turns as the guest star.
Lose the cameos. I know Seth is the producer, but he and Maya Rudolph didn't actually add anything. The movies are stuffed with cameos, but the show was always meant to spotlight one particular guest (unless the "guest" is specifically a group). This is the same thing that made the previous "The Muppets" series such a mess; the more celebrities want to poke their heads in, the less focused everything feels. If Seth and Maya wanted to be onscreen, then they should get turns as the guest star.
He's played by Matt Vogel now, after they fired Steve Whitmire ten years ago.
TBF this could be a one-off, so I kinda understand them getting Cameos, Seth more then Maya tbh becuase Seth's first scene was gold imo.
The cameos seemed off to me, but we're still funny. The humans in the audience threw me off a bit. I loved it otherwise. Yeah, Matt Vogel still sounds off...like someone tried to replace Kermit and hoped nobody noticed (wait isn't that a movie plot?)....but it's getting better and unfortunately for the Muppets to move forward we got to get used to it.
I actually thought the new Kermit was pretty okay, myself. I noticed it a lot more in the trailers than the actual show. I think he still needs to grow into the role a little, but he's not bad. There are times he sounds off, but other times he's spot on. I almost feel like he's trying a little too hard to do a voice, rather than actually act or get a emotion across. He sounds more natural in the role when he's more casual. I'll admit, it's a little weird, just because the other guy has been doing the role for...30 years. So, it's a bit of a uphill battle, but I think this new guy can do it.
The laugh track though...I feel they went a little heavy on the laugh track. I think I'm anti-laugh track on a show like this. Especially during musical numbers. It makes the show feel less like a performance, and more like a Disney Channel tween sitcom. Maybe it's just the "type" of laugh track they were using that got to me, I don't know. There may be a certain "art" to using a laugh track that this just lacks. A laugh track may be best used as a "seasoning" not as a "sauce" that you drench the entire show in. Or just cut it entirely.
And I feel like there's something a little off about the editing? I'm not sure about this one, but it's just a feeling I have. I feel like there's too many close ups and cuts between shots? Part of the appeal of the Muppets is seeing it all work in real time. Letting the choreography work with the puppetry. When you're cutting back and forth all the time, and characters just show up in the shots, it kind of takes away a bit of the magic to it all. I suppose it might make it easier to edit, and it might be editing in a way to keep people's shorter attention spans on the screen, but I feel like you're losing something with so many cuts and edits. I don't know, I just feel like they maybe overdid it a bit. I'm not saying I want them to have no edits or close ups, but I think it's a matter of degree.
But, I did like a lot of the skits. Statler and Waldorf are pitch perfect. I liked Rizzo's musical number. The "Islands in the Stream" number with Miss Piggy taking over the sketch was great. The "I grew up watching you, my parents grew up watching you, their parents grew up watching you" line actually had me laughing. And the "Don't Stop Us Now" finale was actually pretty good!
This felt...safe. Which I suppose is fair for a "pilot". But, I'll admit, I think it needs something. Maybe it's just a bit more conflict? A bit more friction between the characters? Something. But, for right now, this was nice. I'm definitely open to seeing more. Just...maybe kill the laugh track. Maybe literally, since that could be a fun sketch.
Also...have a few more shorts. Because you can't say they didn't try to promote this special!
The laugh track though...I feel they went a little heavy on the laugh track. I think I'm anti-laugh track on a show like this. Especially during musical numbers. It makes the show feel less like a performance, and more like a Disney Channel tween sitcom. Maybe it's just the "type" of laugh track they were using that got to me, I don't know. There may be a certain "art" to using a laugh track that this just lacks. A laugh track may be best used as a "seasoning" not as a "sauce" that you drench the entire show in. Or just cut it entirely.
And I feel like there's something a little off about the editing? I'm not sure about this one, but it's just a feeling I have. I feel like there's too many close ups and cuts between shots? Part of the appeal of the Muppets is seeing it all work in real time. Letting the choreography work with the puppetry. When you're cutting back and forth all the time, and characters just show up in the shots, it kind of takes away a bit of the magic to it all. I suppose it might make it easier to edit, and it might be editing in a way to keep people's shorter attention spans on the screen, but I feel like you're losing something with so many cuts and edits. I don't know, I just feel like they maybe overdid it a bit. I'm not saying I want them to have no edits or close ups, but I think it's a matter of degree.
But, I did like a lot of the skits. Statler and Waldorf are pitch perfect. I liked Rizzo's musical number. The "Islands in the Stream" number with Miss Piggy taking over the sketch was great. The "I grew up watching you, my parents grew up watching you, their parents grew up watching you" line actually had me laughing. And the "Don't Stop Us Now" finale was actually pretty good!
This felt...safe. Which I suppose is fair for a "pilot". But, I'll admit, I think it needs something. Maybe it's just a bit more conflict? A bit more friction between the characters? Something. But, for right now, this was nice. I'm definitely open to seeing more. Just...maybe kill the laugh track. Maybe literally, since that could be a fun sketch.
Also...have a few more shorts. Because you can't say they didn't try to promote this special!
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It felt perfect to me. Exactly like an episode of the Muppet Show. Which is fairly astounding and wonderful.
-ZacWilliam, yes Kermit's voice is weird, that's mostly unavoidable, but everything else was so perfectly on target, on tone, and on style that it's very easy to let it go.
-ZacWilliam, yes Kermit's voice is weird, that's mostly unavoidable, but everything else was so perfectly on target, on tone, and on style that it's very easy to let it go.
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There are any number of people out there who could do a Kermit voice we're less likely to be distracted by, but they refuse to recast with outsiders because, I dunno, something about the camaraderie of the team I guess. This worked well the first few times they lost members (especially Frank Oz), but only by pure luck. The other valid reason they have to keep doing it this way is that it's one thing to be able to do voices, but they need people who are skilled and proven puppeteers as well.
Which brings me to my next point, which is that for the first time I can remember, the puppeteering felt rough in spots as well. The worst was Gonzo's stunt because they insisted on using the animatronic for closeups instead of swapping him out for a real puppet, but there were subtler moments of jankiness I'd have to go back and rewatch to pinpoint.
Incidentally, I recently scored a 3-season set of the original Muppet Show on DVD and I've been watching through those, and it struck me that a lot of the comedy falls flat compared to most of their movies. There are a number of possible reasons why this might be, and it's probably a combination of all of them: comedy ages poorly in general (I had a similar reaction to seeing Airplane the first time), slapstick is tougher to pull off with puppets (especially to a generation spoiled by cartoons with their physically impossible movement and frame-perfect timing), the writers were still finding their feet and needing to squeeze out a whole season's worth of material in a year compared to multiple years for one 90 minute film, limited time available for retakes... And that was when they were at least trying; owing to its variety-show format, often they would have a whole segment where they'd just let their guest star or even the Electric Mayhem perform with no gags at all.
It's been said before on this forum that one of the biggest things an attempt to revive The Muppet Show would have working against it is that variety shows are long dead. And vaudeville, which they specifically chose to pattern the original show after, is so far past dead that so is every person old enough to have ever seen it. Muppets Tonight dealt with this by tweaking the format just enough to more closely resemble Saturday Night Live, which was at least still relevant back then. To now dial that back feels like a sign that they don't know what they're doing, how to market the Muppets to anyone younger than literal boomers.
And, yeah, this mostly felt like a new episode of the 1970s Muppet Show. It feels like the product of writers who managed to internalize its style of humor despite growing up a generation or more later, and faithfully spat out more of the same. If they continue to air this on ABC rather than make it a Disney+ exclusive, I'll continue to watch to see if just to see where it goes. But I'm hoping it goes somewhere interesting, or I won't be surprised to see it go away.
Which brings me to my next point, which is that for the first time I can remember, the puppeteering felt rough in spots as well. The worst was Gonzo's stunt because they insisted on using the animatronic for closeups instead of swapping him out for a real puppet, but there were subtler moments of jankiness I'd have to go back and rewatch to pinpoint.
Incidentally, I recently scored a 3-season set of the original Muppet Show on DVD and I've been watching through those, and it struck me that a lot of the comedy falls flat compared to most of their movies. There are a number of possible reasons why this might be, and it's probably a combination of all of them: comedy ages poorly in general (I had a similar reaction to seeing Airplane the first time), slapstick is tougher to pull off with puppets (especially to a generation spoiled by cartoons with their physically impossible movement and frame-perfect timing), the writers were still finding their feet and needing to squeeze out a whole season's worth of material in a year compared to multiple years for one 90 minute film, limited time available for retakes... And that was when they were at least trying; owing to its variety-show format, often they would have a whole segment where they'd just let their guest star or even the Electric Mayhem perform with no gags at all.
It's been said before on this forum that one of the biggest things an attempt to revive The Muppet Show would have working against it is that variety shows are long dead. And vaudeville, which they specifically chose to pattern the original show after, is so far past dead that so is every person old enough to have ever seen it. Muppets Tonight dealt with this by tweaking the format just enough to more closely resemble Saturday Night Live, which was at least still relevant back then. To now dial that back feels like a sign that they don't know what they're doing, how to market the Muppets to anyone younger than literal boomers.
And, yeah, this mostly felt like a new episode of the 1970s Muppet Show. It feels like the product of writers who managed to internalize its style of humor despite growing up a generation or more later, and faithfully spat out more of the same. If they continue to air this on ABC rather than make it a Disney+ exclusive, I'll continue to watch to see if just to see where it goes. But I'm hoping it goes somewhere interesting, or I won't be surprised to see it go away.
This isn't Muppets, but...it's Muppets-adjacent?
Earlier this month, PBS put out a half-hour special from the Jim Henson Company. Wowsabout!
I'm just posting this because I feel like it's pretty easy to overlook it. I feel like this is destined to be one of those things people are going to be looking for, but can't remember the name of for the life of them, since they only saw it once. Destined to end up in a "Top Ten Most Obscure Jim Henson Specials" list. And that's kind of a shame.
It's fine. It's for really little kids. And it's a glorified commercial for Sequoia National Park. But, there's some lively puppetry here. And the voice acting is fun enough. And the songs are kind of catchy. It won't blow your socks off. But, it's pleasant enough. If you're in the right mood, you could enjoy this.
Earlier this month, PBS put out a half-hour special from the Jim Henson Company. Wowsabout!
I'm just posting this because I feel like it's pretty easy to overlook it. I feel like this is destined to be one of those things people are going to be looking for, but can't remember the name of for the life of them, since they only saw it once. Destined to end up in a "Top Ten Most Obscure Jim Henson Specials" list. And that's kind of a shame.
It's fine. It's for really little kids. And it's a glorified commercial for Sequoia National Park. But, there's some lively puppetry here. And the voice acting is fun enough. And the songs are kind of catchy. It won't blow your socks off. But, it's pleasant enough. If you're in the right mood, you could enjoy this.
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