Star Trek General Discussion

[Copper Bezel]

Makes sense, since what we see on screen in that case could only have matched the official record, and anything that wasn't public knowledge in the 24th century couldn't have happened there. No other Star Trek episode explicitly frames itself as a historical reconstruction like that (which is itself unfortunate, of course, because if we could move to accepting that all canon is inspired by the events of the world of Trek instead of insisting that every word is God-breathed, entire YouTube channels would go out of business.)

I fully adopt "the Baskin-Robbins Gang" into my lexicon and personality.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

It's funny you mention that....

One of the cardinal rules imposed on Pocket Books by both Richard Arnold's reign of error and subsequent administrations within Paramount was "Thou Shalt Not Contradict What Was Shown On Screen." But such was the audience reaction to "These Are the Voyages", that Pocket had no qualms commissioning The Good That Men Do, in which we learn that a key character death on that infamous episode was in fact an in-universe cover story to hide his wartime-and-early-Federation adventures with the Baskin-Robbins Gang (as I sometimes call a certain numbered department).

Makes sense, since what we see on screen in that case could only have matched the official record, and anything that wasn't public knowledge in the 24th century couldn't have happened there. No other Star Trek episode explicitly frames itself as a historical reconstruction like that (which is itself unfortunate, of course, because if we could move to accepting that all canon is inspired by the events of the world of Trek instead of insisting that every word is God-breathed, entire YouTube channels would go out of business.)

I fully adopt "the Baskin-Robbins Gang" into my lexicon and personality.

Yeah. "These Are the Voyages" presented a unique opportunity. The novels were able to utterly reinterpret those events without actually contradicting anything, since the whole thing was a holodeck recreation, told from the perspective of the 24th century, rather than from the perspective of Archer's crew in the 22nd. As a result, the "cardinal rule" (as Tuxedo Prime called it) was actually upheld.

Perhaps you'd call that cheating, but it's certainly no worse than Kirk's (and others') insistence that they're never actually broken the Prime Directive.

 

[Cybersnark]

As a result, the "cardinal rule" (as Tuxedo Prime called it) was actually upheld.

Indeed, that's the only reason they could write "The Good That Men Do."

Part of why I love tie-in novels (not just Star Trek, but generally) is that there's a level of artistry necessary in taking the exact words of canon and finding spaces to tell new stories without contradicting anything.

It's a rule that non-prose works (like video games, comics, and TV spin-offs) never bother to uphold (look how Star Trek Online is still chugging along post-Picard, long after Pocket Books was forced to throw out their continuity), but I never see anybody shitting over them for being "glorified fanfic."

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Indeed, that's the only reason they could write "The Good That Men Do."

Part of why I love tie-in novels (not just Star Trek, but generally) is that there's a level of artistry necessary in taking the exact words of canon and finding spaces to tell new stories without contradicting anything.

It's a rule that non-prose works (like video games, comics, and TV spin-offs) never bother to uphold (look how Star Trek Online is still chugging along post-Picard, long after Pocket Books was forced to throw out their continuity), but I never see anybody shitting over them for being "glorified fanfic."

To be fair, I can point to any number of prose works for other franchises that singularly FAIL to maintain their parent series' continuity. The first Murder, She Wrote novel infamously depicted Jessica Fletcher as driving a car (this was later fixed in a revised edition, but other errors remain).

 

[wonko the sane?]

And, logistically speaking: given how long and how much trek has been created by so many people: it's literally impossible to make new content which does not step on something past. It's part of why some companies (like DC.) are constantly rebooting the franchises, and doing stand alone stuff: it just makes it easier to tell stories.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Ok, I saw the first two original Star Trek movies with a friend (after I told him I was watching some Star Trek shows). Since I just finished the musical SNW ep, have to stuff to reconcile.

But first, the first motion picture was slooooow. So much panning scenery shots of space stuff. Maybe the sfx blew people's minds before but it was boring. People did get killed by the entity though. They never explained why it selectively chose the lady to murder, poor girl. But I figured out what was going to happen after they name dropped the entity and said it was after it's Creator on Earth. The whole thing felt like it could have been a Twilight Zone ep, just really stretched out.

Friend said Decker was the guy from Seventh Heaven and had molestation charges on him. All I saw was the skin tight pants in his earlier appearance that got covered up by a long shirt later on, haha.

Wrath of Khan, I already knew about Spock dying at the end. And how the Khaaaaan shout by Kirk gets parodied. The action scream was underwhelming but when I saw the trailer in the DVD as an extra, I assumed it was repeatedly playing it as a commercial made it famous.

I didn't know Kirk had a son, even though he didn't have a wife (cuz I know he fooled around with a lot of alien ladies, I think). Soooo the lady scientist Carol was the one SNW Kirk referred to when he broke La'an's heart in the musical ep. I thought the Khan stuff about why he was angry with Kirk was just backstory made for the movie. I didn't know it was from an actual TOS ep, which was cool.

Anyhow, it was ok. Creepy stuff with the mind control worms and the murders. Khan's group looked like barbarians but they knew how to operate ships.

Oh and I was surprised to see Kristie Alley. I figure that she was to be the replacement Spock after he died. Also, is this the first time the Kobayashi Maru thing was mentioned? Or Spock saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? I'm assuming that it is.

 

[Copper Bezel]

But first, the first motion picture was slooooow. So much panning scenery shots of space stuff. Maybe the sfx blew people's minds before but it was boring. People did get killed by the entity though. They never explained why it selectively chose the lady to murder, poor girl. But I figured out what was going to happen after they name dropped the entity and said it was after it's Creator on Earth. The whole thing felt like it could have been a Twilight Zone ep, just really stretched out.

It is deeply a movie that has seen 2001: A Space Odyssey. I blame that influence for why there's that bizarre and out of place transporter accident scene as well. But at least it wasn't Star Wars!

 

[MrBlud]

And, logistically speaking: given how long and how much trek has been created by so many people: it's literally impossible to make new content which does not step on something past. It's part of why some companies (like DC.) are constantly rebooting the franchises, and doing stand alone stuff: it just makes it easier to tell stories.

I’ve always found that a lazy excuse as people manage to tell non-fiction stories without “stepping on canon” despite there being a whole hell of a lot more human history over a 87 year old fictional universe (in DC’s case).

 

[DefaultOption]

But first, the first motion picture was slooooow.

The fandom dubbed it "The Slow-Motion Picture" for a reason.

It's less bad if you keep in mind that the story was originally intended to be the pilot for a new Trek TV series until the studio decided at the last minute that it wanted a movie instead.

 

[Andrusi]

Also, is this the first time the Kobayashi Maru thing was mentioned?

Yes. It's kind of fun to think about how it's basically just a thing they made up so the movie could have an action-y opening. and then the fandom fell in love with it to the point that you'd think it was a much bigger part of the setting than it was. "How did this character approach the Kobayashi Maru?" is one of the Standard Star Trek Tie-In Media Stories.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Sl

The fandom dubbed it "The Slow-Motion Picture" for a reason.

It's less bad if you keep in mind that the story was originally intended to be the pilot for a new Trek TV series until the studio decided at the last minute that it wanted a movie instead.

Slow Motion Picture!!! Hahaha!!!

Cool, I was right about the Kobayashi Maru first mention. It's been a bit of a game for me, getting these Trek references since I'm sorta watching the media backwards. Sometimes fun, hehe

 

[Ryougabot]

 

[Stepwise]

That's a very special brand of geek humor, Ryougabot.

(and yeah, I'm still laughing)

 

[TM2-Megatron]

Ok, I saw the first two original Star Trek movies with a friend (after I told him I was watching some Star Trek shows). Since I just finished the musical SNW ep, have to stuff to reconcile.

But first, the first motion picture was slooooow. So much panning scenery shots of space stuff. Maybe the sfx blew people's minds before but it was boring. People did get killed by the entity though. They never explained why it selectively chose the lady to murder, poor girl. But I figured out what was going to happen after they name dropped the entity and said it was after it's Creator on Earth. The whole thing felt like it could have been a Twilight Zone ep, just really stretched out.

Did you watch the director's cut or the theatrical? It makes a big difference.

It's only in the last few months, thanks to the recent 4K blu-ray release of the pre-Abrams Trek films, that both cuts of TMP have finally been made available in properly-remastered HD.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Oh, I have no idea. I watched a DVD set (Blu ray?) at a friend's place. Director's cut would be loooooonger, I'd assume? If I saw the theatrical, then it was already too looong for me, haha

 

[TM2-Megatron]

Oh, I have no idea. I watched a DVD set (Blu ray?) at a friend's place. Director's cut would be loooooonger, I'd assume? If I saw the theatrical, then it was already too looong for me, haha

It's only a 5 minute difference, but the pacing of the Director's Cut has been heavily modified and it doesn't feel nearly as slow.

 

[The Predaking]

It is still not a great film, especially when compared to any of the other 5 TOS films. TWOK followed it up with people that knew what they were doing and cared about the franchise. They had to convince Nimoy to return by offering him the best death scene of all time, as he was so miserable making the first film.

 

[Ungnome]

I don't know. I wouldn't say "What Does God Need With a Starship" is BETTER than the 70's style rehash of "Changeling". TMP is the least memeable TOS movie, though.

 

[The Predaking]

I don't know. I wouldn't say "What Does God Need With a Starship" is BETTER than the 70's style rehash of "Changeling". TMP is the least memeable TOS movie, though.

At least you know a line form Star Trek V.

 

[Shadewing]

At least you know a line form Star Trek V.

TBF, I think most would know that line regardless of seeing the moive or not. Cultural Zeitgeist and all that.