Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: stock renders of upcoming Alpha Trion, Micronus, Flatline, Fireflight, Skydive, ++

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
There is no shortage of stories about gods and immortals secretly living amongst humanity without revealing their true nature. Alchemist/Maccadam is pretty explictly a Cybertronian example of that trope. Given that, I don't really understand why some, or even all, of the Thirteen still being alive is an issue. It's like saying there can't be Greek mythology in the world of Percy Jackson because the Greek gods are still alive.

The only things I see as being substantially different in this case are the facts that Cybertronians are mechanical and live MUCH longer than humans. Their being mechanical lends itself to concepts like "species that should be able to back everything they know onto the Cloud". However, that ignores two major facts:

1) Electromechanical systems are more reliable and longer-lasting than us fleshies, but still ultimately experience the same kinds of failures.
2) As has been often pointed out, TF fiction pretty consistently treats Cybertronians as being just giant metal humans. If we're going to toss that aside, the Thirteen are nowhere near the top of the list of things in TF fiction that don't really make a lot of sense.

Meanwhile, their extremely long lives might seem to throw a wrench in the works, but only at a narrow look. As already noted, they can still experience all the same sorts of issues we do: failing memories, lost history pre-written records, loss of records due to things like war or negligence, etc. It just takes a lot more time for all that to happen.

Only IDW1 has ever shown any significant character overlap between the era when the Thirteen were active and the present day. Even that didn't have very many, with most of them explicitly being either unknown, not present, or reclusive. Given that IDW1 explicitly subverts the Thirteen mythology concept by making them all normal bots and inserts its own justifications for how that era became lost to memory (regardless of how compelling or not that justification might be) even amongst the small handful of bots that bridge that gap, it really doesn't negate the concept.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
The keyword there is "mythology" If Zeus showed up today, he wouldn't be "mythology" anymore, he'd just be a fact. A similar thing happens with the 13; when they show up, they cease to become mythology and just become a factual part of the backstory.

Also, keep in mind that just because Transformers are made of technology doesn't mean they automatically understand it. It took hundreds of thousands of years before humanity went from "from trial and error, we've discovered that rubbing this caustic herb on your wound will make it heal faster" to "wounds can get infected due to microscopic bacteria, clean and sterilize them." Hell, there's still a ton we don't understand about the human body, even in this modern age.

IDW went whole hog on this concept, pre-Nova prime, where Cybertron was straight up in Conan the Barbarian "sword and shield" mode. Nobody was figuring out how to upload data to the cloud back then, they were busy beating each other over the head with clubs and axes.

EDIT: Also, this is just my headcanon, but I feel like Transformers extreme longevity should be a byproduct of their scientific progress as once they get a handle on their mechanical nature, replacing faulty parts becomes second nature, turning them from long-lived robots into a clinical near-immortal species. (I.e. won't die due to aging, but can still be destroyed if their spark is snuffed out.)

So between the constant warfare, and the lack of understanding about their bodies, they were dying off a hell of a lot faster back then compared to more modern eras, so even the hardiest specimen still had a limited lifespan and wouldn't have made it from the age of creation to the age of science.
 
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Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Maccadam being Alchemist was also a retcon.

IDW1 had made Alchemist fond of drinking, something that the Aligned novels and Covenant book never did (the Retribution novel even depicted Maccadam as someone who had no ties to the Thirteen), so then Chris McFeely made a suggestion to Jim Sorenson that AVP make a cheeky little nod to The Ultimate Guide hinting at Maccadam being one of the Thirteen by having its alternate roster of the Thirteen imply that Alchemist Prime goes on to change his identity and become the owner of a certain well-known pub on Cybertron, which the writers of the Cyberverse cartoon saw mentioned on the wiki and decided to canonize the idea completely.

But the original intent behind The Ultimate Guide suggesting Maccadam was one of the Thirteen was that it was a mere rumor from the pub's drunken patrons.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
The thing about the Thirteen being the first blah blahs is it'll inevitably leave out some stuff still, leading to odd implications about what an evolutionary or adaptive step is and what is rooted in their, well, roots. Like sure, first Mini-Con, first combiner, first multi-changer... first beast. But plant exclusions are so rampant in Transformers, with Botanica basically being it (and her own plant altmode the result of a BW-like reformatting to adapt to a planet). Most of the rest on the wiki are Botbots, who started out as potted plants etc brought to life. And the Treant Troop, which was someone on AVP going "I know Trent Troop" more than anything. IDW gave us Treecons, which are pretty explicitly modern experiments made by the Grand Architect (Adaptus, aka "we wasted a perfectly good Pharma").

Like I mean technically you could just gather flora and fauna under Onyx's purview, or maybe assign them to Quintus.

But that's kind of a big missed opportunity for "Asparagus Prime".

I don't actually care about that, I just wanted to say "Asparagus Prime"
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
Another week where it feels like EVERYTHING is comin in...
Right?
Mixmaster showed up yesterday. Got told Onyx and Alpha Trion will be in Friday. My SS86 Megatrons came in at TFSource. And then I get another email about one of the two remaining aerialbots. What's next?
 

Fullstrength Motleypuss

Well-known member
Citizen
Well, I'm glad BBTS has Skydive in stock because Amazon told me yesterday my Skydive was going to ship then I got an email this morning saying shipping was delayed and asking if I still wanted it. So I gave them the big middle finger, cancelled my order, and picked up Skydive (and Venin - BONUS!) at BBTS. hug Amazon!
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
Right?
Mixmaster showed up yesterday. Got told Onyx and Alpha Trion will be in Friday. My SS86 Megatrons came in at TFSource. And then I get another email about one of the two remaining aerialbots. What's next?

Mixmaster is like the ONE thing that's not come in for me. Aerialbots, Onyx, Micronus, ML Sunstreaker and Cordon, Selects g2 Dinobots, Venom/Venin...
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Must be nice.

The only thing that came in the mail this week was bills.

wv53nq45ax0e1.jpg
 

Donocropolis

Olde-Timey Member
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Must be nice.

The only thing that came in the mail this week was bills.

View attachment 31146

As an aside, my family has been using that joke for years. This last Christmas, we moved to a new house with a neighbor named Bill and a very sloppy mailman, so we actually ARE always getting Bill's mail. Life imitates art and all that.
 

Gizmoboy

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Venin, Onyx, Micronus, and SS Megatron are on the way to me now. Thank you BBTS for an expensive week indeed!
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
Got Scavenger yesterday, and Megatron and Fireflight are on the way. That's it so far from Pulse. I really want Mixmaster to get here soon.

The keyword there is "mythology" If Zeus showed up today, he wouldn't be "mythology" anymore, he'd just be a fact. A similar thing happens with the 13; when they show up, they cease to become mythology and just become a factual part of the backstory.
On this point, I mentioned Percy Jackson specifically for a reason. To quote from Lightning Thief:

The evening before my final, I got so frustrated I threw the Cambridge Guide to Greek Mythology across my dorm room.

It's explicitly there in the story that there is a mythology around these characters and events that are not just real within that universe, but are in fact still alive and active. Their presence does not mean that they aren't mythological.

We've come to associate the word myth with things that aren't real. You know, stuff like the myth of Donald Trump, the successful business man. But a myth in the sense that's relevant to the Thirteen is just a traditional cultural story. Whether it's true or false, or even whether the subjects of the myth are still present or not, doesn't really matter to whether it's a myth or not.
 

NovaSaber

Well-known member
Citizen
According to the way people who actually study myth, legend, and folkore distinguish between between those three, it's only a myth if it focuses on gods and/or the origins of things; a culturally important story that's about important people is a legend.
 


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