Marvel Cinematic Universe - General Thread

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Honestly? It's a damned if they do damned if they don't thing. The MCU has run into the same problem the shared comic book universe it's based on ran into- after a hot start it becomes so continuity heavy that most general audience types will simply find it inaccessible.

A full-on universal reset (what a DC-esque thing to do, Kev) could potentially alleviate that issue for most, but it could send the wrong message to the fans who have stuck with them through all of this.

Ultimately? A reboot or remake of the MCU was inevitable eventually, but I think simply letting it rest after Endgame, and then revisiting it with a fresh continuity and direction ten years down the line would have been the smarter move. Give people a chance to miss it.

I like the idea of maybe just loosening the continuity, having the characters go on adventures that don't redefine their status quos, and can be watched independently or as part of the whole.

James Bond and Indiana Jones are the comparisons I've seen for that idea. They'll have references, sure, but little more than that most of the time. The Tim Burton Batman movies were basically like that, too.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Finished Ironheart.

What in heavens was that ending?

How in the world did they go from an Iron Man take to that?

I can see this tying to Visionquest because of the mix of technology (Vision) and mystic (whatever the hex Speed will be). Man, Wakanda had a very spiritual side too. It could have worked too.

Overall, I liked it well enough but the ending was whaaaa? To be fair, it works with her nature. Sorta.

Was this a moderate success that they'll continue it? Reeeeeally would have been cooler if it was a live action Moon Girl. Moon Girl even says Moon Girl magic, haha. And has the music part.

Also is Joe Mcgillacuddy whatever a character with a name name?

 

[LordGigaIce]

I like the idea of maybe just loosening the continuity, having the characters go on adventures that don't redefine their status quos, and can be watched independently or as part of the whole.

James Bond and Indiana Jones are the comparisons I've seen for that idea. They'll have references, sure, but little more than that most of the time. The Tim Burton Batman movies were basically like that, too.

That's how I would have handled Andrew Garfield Spider-Man. Don't start with an origin, just start with him as Spider-Man doing Spider-Man things. If someone asks if they're in continuity with the Tobey Maguire films just go "they are if you want them to be."

And yeah... technically the Joel Schumacher Batman movies were in continuity with the Tim Burton ones, but they never dwelled on it.

That has to be the way forward. Sadly nerds like us became so mainstream every studio became continuity obsessed, so I don't know if going back is even possible.

James Bond is the saddest of them all. It was the master of not caring, but using past films for emotional moments when necessary, and it worked wonders.
In Licence to Kill, for example, Felix Leiter's new wife tosses her bridal girdle to Bond, and he just sighs and goes "thank you, but no." When Della asks Felix what's wrong, Felix just goes "he was married... once."
It's a clear reference to George Lazenby's Bond's tragic marriage to Tracy di Vicenzo from On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
The film never demands you be super familiar with Bond's history, but there's a subtle nod to that history for added pathos if you do know.

The reason I say that's sad is that this is gone. Craig's era rebooted the Bond films, and they deliberately made everything in his era very continuity dependent, with the reveal that Bloefeld and SPECTE had orchestrated EVERYTHING. Not only that, but the decision to kill Craig's Bond at the end of his run means that when they make more it was almost certainly start with a reboot that will kick off a MCU-like series of interconnected films.

The days of Bond films not caring to be hyper continuity focused and only playing that card when needed are over, sacrificed at the alter of the MCU. A style of franchise filmmaking that even Marvel is finding unwieldy now.

 

[MrBlud]

Being a part of Disney, “resting the brand” was never an option on the back of Endgame. The need to feed the machine to feed the shareholders was too strong. The Variety interview Feige just did basically had him admitting the fundamental issue was over-saturation of Marvel, by order of Disney. At this stage, I’ve not really kept up with most of the MCU short particular “sections” that appeal to me.


I do find it amusing how both Marvel and DC have stumbled into similar paths for “fixing” the current state of their films, but we’ll see how things turn out. Or maybe more accurately, which corporate overlord STEPS IN first.

Disney is big enough, with enough properties, they could do like Farmers and rotate the crops. Need to let Marvel rest for a decade after Endgame? Throw Gargoyle's up there (or something else)

Executives want to run the same thing that’s worked before endlessly until it doesn’t. That’s harmful and stupid.

 

[Stepwise]

You'd think they could "rotate the crops," but they don't. Franchise movies seem like they get most of the attention. (so I guess we should ask when Oppenheimer 2 is coming out?)

I wish that "passing the torch" worked - I really do like Anthony Mackie as Falcon and as Cap - but I went back and watched Brave New World, and it was averagely okay. It didn't have the chemistry between the cast that's been there in other movies. Marvels was fun, and I love Kamala Khan, but it felt like an episode of Agents of Shield. Thunderbolts* was the only one I've really enjoyed and want to go see again.

Someone else mentioned ending things after Endgame - that could've worked, or Spider-Man 3 could've been the epilogue. I know the counter-argument is that there are so many other stories from comics that could still be brought over into movie form, but if they don't have a beginning, middle, and end in mind, they'll have to just keep cycling around and finding ways to bring back the big characters the same way the comics do. And since real actors get too old (or pass away,) they'll have to recast the characters or have "new versions" with some time travel/multiverse/variant shenanigans.

 

[MrBlud]

Hot take: Professional wrestling is the only form of original long form story telling left.

Everything else is endless reboots and rehashes but they *can’t* bring in another Hulk Hogan (rest in piss) or Stone Cold so they have move on and truly elevate others.

 

[Rhinox]

. . . . i mean, you're not wrong.

 

[Ultra Magnus13]

Wiping the slate and starting a whole new MCU would be the MOST fatiguing thing for me. What I want it is probably not possible. I get it. But for the record what I want is to cast a slate of actors that are willing to play their character every couple of years for the rest of their careers.

The writing was on the wall as soon as they announced they were doing "Secret Wars". Its an event literally designed to be a soft reboot that allows them to cherry pick whatever they want to mush into a new "main" universe.



I imagine after this we are going to strip back to more street, and world level threats instead of Galaxy and reality, and multiversal threats. We will get a new "main" MCU that will pull forward people that are still available, and still work. I think we will get Hugh Jackman as "old man Logan" who will exist at the same time as a new younger Wolverine. I can see them keeping Hemsworth Thor, but he goes back to a newly restored Asgard to rule, while a newly cast Thor operates on Earth. A new Steve Rogers that starts out as a sidekick to Captain Falcon etc. We may also get some pocket or isolated universes as well. Then after a sufficient build up we will have a new all of reality threat, and a council of Reeds or something will assemble an all star team.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

. . . . i mean, you're not wrong.

Especially about the "resting in piss" part.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Hot take: Professional wrestling is the only form of original long form story telling left.

Everything else is endless reboots and rehashes but they *can’t* bring in another Hulk Hogan (rest in piss) or Stone Cold so they have move on and truly elevate others.

Even then... WWE is helmed by a guy who has been open for his love of 80s NWA JCP booking and AEW is helmed by a guy who has been open for his love of 90s ECW booking. It shows in both.

As you said, wrestling has certain limitations that keep it original by necessity but even then... you can see the nostalgia peaking back up. Goldberg just had a main event in WWE after all.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I imagine after this we are going to strip back to more street, and world level threats instead of Galaxy and reality, and multiversal threats. We will get a new "main" MCU that will pull forward people that are still available, and still work.

They've already talked about the need to recast Tony Stark and Steve Rodgers, so this will almost certainly happen.

I have a mixed take on it...
On one hand, Iron Man is my favourite Marvel character and while RDJ did a great job with him, the MCU Iron Man diverged from the source material in a lot of ways. If a reboot/recast means that we get an Iron Man closer to the comics run (I'd love a late 80s/early 90s Iron Man/IMTAS vibe) then I'll be down, if only for some more Iron Man content that couldn't happen in the MCU as it currently exists.
I'd also be cautiously optimistic to see what they can do with the X-Men without leaning on the Fox continuity/actors.

On the flip side... even if this reboot goes as well as can reasonably be expected, they're gonna run into the same issue every comic publisher runs into when they hit the "reset" button.
Eventually the scope becomes too ludicrous and the continuity too inaccessible and every attempt to bring things back to basics works until it doesn't- because eventually the stakes will get ludicrous again and the continuity will become inaccessible again.

And as we've seen in comics themselves... hitting the "reset" button is a solution with diminishing returns.

Disney is big enough, with enough properties, they could do like Farmers and rotate the crops. Need to let Marvel rest for a decade after Endgame? Throw Gargoyle's up there (or something else)

Executives want to run the same thing that’s worked before endlessly until it doesn’t. That’s harmful and stupid.

Disney, if it was properly managed, could easily "rotate the crops." Problem is... they've ruined a lot of those seeds.

Live action remakes of their animated films were huge... until they ran those into the ground and now those returns have dried up.

Star Wars should be their ace in the hole any time they need a sure fire hit and create some distance for their other franchises, but that's been so mismanaged that even the genuinely good outings seem to be nothing more than rage bait for incel manchildren. They seem genuinely terrified of putting another Star Wars movie into theatres.

Indiana Jones is deceptive because it seems like it should be a huge thing but it's so tied to one actor who basically wants nothing to do with it anymore, and is too old to do anything else even if he wanted to.

They have loads of hot 90s animated properties that they could dust off but seemingly don't want to because they're not Marvel.

And finally you have the failure of stuff like Tron: Legacy, John Carter, and the Lone Ranger that convinced Disney to over-saturate with Marvel and Star Wars in the first place.

Who knows? Maybe Tron: Ares will be a sleeper hit, but I doubt it. Shame, because I liked Tron: Legacy and John Carter.

All in all Disney has a deep library where, if they were even a little bit savvy, they could rotate things so nothing ever felt stale... but they've handled their sure things so poorly lately that those aren't making any money... and neither will the smaller projects because of how ignored they've been.

 

[Axaday]

And finally you have the failure of stuff like Tron: Legacy, John Carter, and the Lone Ranger that convinced Disney to over-saturate with Marvel and Star Wars in the first place.

I loved the Lone Ranger as a little kid. I don't even remember any stories. But there was a comic a decade ago that would have made such a nice movie, but they made what they made instead.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Goldberg just had a main event in WWE after all.

A Saturday Night's Main Event, at that!

 

[Daith]

It's time to bring in the greatest hero to the MCU.