X Men Thread

wentwood

Active member
Citizen
I started watching the X Men movies with X 1. I had seen a few after The Last Stand so watching them in order. X 11 The New Mutants is the last of the first run.

Deadpool and Elektra are branch off movies. I just got X 8 Apocalypse and X 10 Dark Phoenix on order. Ordering X 9 Logan and X 11 The New Mutants when I finish X 8.
 

Daith

Bustin make feel Good!
Citizen
Elektra is a spinoff of the Ben Affleck Daredevil movie. Nothing really to do with the X-men franchise in the movies.

But just into the movies? What about the comics or cartoons?
 

Caldwin

Woobie Destroyer of Worlds
Citizen
Okay, so, back in the 90's and even a bit into the 00's, I read X-men religiously. But then they started to get to the point where they had several different X books and if you didn't read them all you'd fall behind in the few you were reading. So I eventually dropped it. I've pretty much been in and out since then.

When I heard that this whole Krakoa thing was starting up and would be a good jumping on place, I tried. I really tried. But the characters I liked were getting shoved to the background and I just didn't care for where the plot was going.

All that to say this. Thanks to TvTropes, I was directed back to a couple issues. I heard Jubilee used her powers to the max and I wanted to see it. Well, now it seems Jubilee is dead and Moira MacTaggert is alive. No real issues on either point. No one stays dead in comics after all. But one thing is nagging at me..,

Why is Moira a villain now? And King Pin, Mystique and others are good guys? I mean, I realize there's always going to be heel turns and face turns. But what the heck is going on?

AND WHY THE HELL IS MOIRA A VILLAIN?????
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
I hadn't heard she was a villain now, but last I knew it had turned out she was a mutant with something like Loki's time-slipping from the recent show, except she had to die to time-travel. So after the first time she died she kept trying to tweak the timeline to make things better, and went through several iterations before the current timeline with the krakoa stuff. There was an implication though that she was running or had run out of lives, so maybe that's related?
 

Daith

Bustin make feel Good!
Citizen
Moira got found out once Mystique finally revived Destiny. Essentially even though this is the best attempt at creating a mutant nation throughout all Moira’s previous timelines there is one inevitable outcome. The Sentinels will gain true sentience and destroy the mutants, overtaking the humans and becoming dominant.

But in order to prevent the secret from being spilt any precogs were prevented from being revived again. Once Mystique and Destiny were reunited through a lot of back handled deals, Destiny sought revenge against the still hidden in a unknown part of Krakoa, Moira (she hadn’t been revealed to be alive to anyone besides Charles, Magneto, Cypher and Krakoa itself.) So there were to be no more resets, Mystique and Destiny gave her a version of the Mutant cure, making her human and sending her away from Krakoa. This being the life number a previous Destiny had told her would be her last. Moira said **** it all and joined the “winning” team. She’s now pretty much an Omega Sentinel AI or something now.

But that’s just the Moira side of things. Sinister has pretty well screwed shit up too although most of that got wiped after the Sins of Sinister arc concluded. But there are 4 main versions of him running around. Mr. Sinister himself tried inserting his mental patterns into every resurrected Mutant ( never give him full control of the gene banks🙄). Dr. Stasis is a pro humanist version working with the ORCHIS group ( the anti mutant forces including the Sentinels). Mother Righteous is a version of Essex’s wife who has become a prominent magic user and has presented herself as a self styled god. And Orbis Steleris is withered old version stuffed in a giant orb who looks to the future in the stars and their alien technology. And each has the playing card suit of their own on their forehead. Sinister has the Diamond, Righteous has the heart, Stasis has the club, and Orbis the Spade.

Oh, wouldn’t call Mystique good really, just playing her own ends as usual. Kingpin married Typhoid Mary a while back. Her being a Mutant granted her citizenship on Krakoa and thus Fisk by marriage. He’s currently allied with Mutantkind to get her back and screw over ORCHIS.
 

ZakuConvoy

Well-known member
Citizen
Personally, I think it's FAR weirder that Jubilee got turned into a vampire for the better part of a decade. And then adopted a baby who was being used as a body by a supervillain bacteria and who is currently a dragon in another dimension.



Why is Moira a villain now? And King Pin, Mystique and others are good guys? I mean, I realize there's always going to be heel turns and face turns. But what the heck is going on?
Daith hit the high points, so I'll try not to repeat what he covered.

But, I will add that, at the VERY start of this Krakoa Saga, it was revealed that Moira was secretly a mutant all this time. She had the mutant power to basically relive her life over from the start every time she died. And every time she died from different events wiping out the mutant race entirely. So, she tried using her powers to create a plan to stop mutants from being wiped out, since she couldn't keep reincarnating unlimited times. It was Destiny herself who actually told her that she could only do this 10 or 11 times, max, in one of these alternate timelines. So, Moira decided that THIS would have to be the time where everything went right, since she believes she's currently on her last life.

(This part is my headcanon: I think it's possible that the original head writer for this saga, Jonathan Hickman, was originally going to use Moira's different lives to try and attempt to explain why there are so many different alternate futures for the X-Men. Days of Futures Past. The Cable future. The Bishop future. Etc. I think Hickman was originally going to have them ALL be from different lives that Moira lived. Those timelines lived on, even if she reincarnated, and caused those alternate timelines that are so predominate in X-Men comics. Explaining why there are so many different bad futures and alternate future X-Men running around in the comics. And also explaining why these alternate future X-Men don't disappear whenever the timeline changes. (Other than Marvel's stance that all alternate futures BECOME their own realities and don't get over-written by one another) It's ALL the result of Moira's other lives. But that's just MY theory, and has never been confirmed.)

So, Moira told Xavier about ALL of that. And Xavier told Magneto. And all 3 of them ended up making a plan to create Krakoa to change the future, and avoid all the bad ends that Moira experienced in her other lives. They hid her in a underground bunker in order to avoid anyone finding out about her. And so that if needs must, she COULD try and use her power in order to reset the timeline and try again.

It's also worth noting, that Xavier granted amnesty to ALL the mutant villains, since this was supposed to be a fresh start for all mutant kind. And...frankly, they needed some of the skills and abilities some of the villains had to make Krakoa work as it's own independent nation. It DID backfire on them, in numbers of ways, over the course of DOZENS of books.

Moira tried to keep Destiny SPECIFICALLY from being resurrected, because Moira and Destiny had beef from that other timeline I mentioned before. Moira was worried that Destiny would tell everyone about how doomed the mutant race was, causing everyone to panic, ruining Moira's plans. Like she did in that OTHER past life that I mentioned, where Moira tried to create a mutant cure, but Destiny had stopped her. And everyone died from robots. Again. Mystique REALLY wanted her girlfriend back, though. And eventually found a way to bring Destiny back.

All these lives that Moira had lived had also left Moira bitter about the fate of mutant-kind, believing that they might be doomed no matter what she did, so she was already tempted to try to use a mutant cure she created in one of these past lives on all the mutants, so that they wouldn't end up dying. She thought if all the mutants all lost their powers, they wouldn't be targeted to be killed. Like in every other timeline she had lived through. Mystique actually ended up using Moira's own cure on Moira herself, in order to prevent her from over-writing this timeline with another of her lives. Moira did end up escaping, though.

Oh, and Moira turned herself into a cyborg, after she lost her mutant powers and found out she had lung cancer. She was also being hunted down by Mystique, who wanted to kill her. So, ALL that kind of lead to her going to the villains, just to protect herself from getting murdered.

So, Mystique is basically a "good guy" now, as a combination of amnesty for her past crimes as well as basically being treated as a Catwoman-type. A sympathetic villain who only really wanted to live a happy life with her girlfriend in a immortal mutant paradise. That didn't work out, either.

So, yeah, it's POSSIBLE that going over to the villain's side is somehow all a part of Moira's plan, and that she's going to do something at the last minute to redeem herself, but...they're going to have to do some serious work, if they EVER want to make her a "hero" again, after what she did to her ex-lover, Banshee. And killing Jean (she's...probably coming back soon as the Phoenix returns to the X-Men comics after a LONG stint of the Phoenix playing a big role in Jason Aaron's Avengers).

There's a whole theme in the Krakoa era of mutants, who are the "natural" evolution of humanity, having to ultimately face off against robots and cyborgs. Because, that's the "artificial" evolution of humanity. Humans can just side-step mutantdom and augment themselves with robotics and AI, in order to avoid dying out to mutants. It's two different paths to the future fighting against itself, ultimately. Which I think is a neat high concept.

Also, it's worth noting it's not really the Sentinels who will gain sentience and eventually rise up. It's the Dominion. Who are...do you remember Warlock from the New Mutants? Well, they retconned it so that his race the Technarchy, are actually just ONE stage of a Matryoshka Doll style cosmic robotic hivemind, with different scales of complexity and power. The Phalanx were retconned to be the next step up on this new hierarchy. With the Dominion being the highest level of this robotic intelligence, living inside of black holes outside of time itself. Basically, they're a cosmic-level version of the Borg, integrating everything and everyone into their robotic hivemind. The goals of 3 out of the 4 Mr Sinisters is to try to BECOME the head of this Dominion. But, one of them has already succeeded, somehow, and there can BE ONLY ONE Dominion, since they rule all timelines and can manipulate the timeline itself.

(We haven't actually seen who the head/creator of the Dominion is yet, but it's HEAVILY implied to be one of the Sinisters. Again, I have my own theory for this: I think it MIGHT be NONE of the Sinisters we actually know. I think it might be a version of Mister Sinister from a timeline where Hickman's original plan played out. Basically, a world where Hickman never left the X-Men comics. That way, we can get a miniseries where Hickman can write HIS version of the story...and it can still be kinda-sorta-canon. It can just be the origin story for the Dominion-Sinister. The Dominion can manipulate timelines after all, and there's no reason to think that the Dominion originates from the world we've actually been following. Giving us a way to have our cake and eat it too. Quantum!)

So, currently, most of the mutants on Earth have been teleported off world. Some are on Mars, which the mutants terraformed to be habitable earlier, and it's HEAVILY implied that the villains are lining things up to just BLOW up Mars entirely. Most are actually in the White Hot Room, where the Phoenix comes from. And there's only a handful of mutants left on Earth to fight back against the cabal that framed them for trying to take over the world.

As far as the Kingpin being a good guy goes. It's less about him being on the side of the mutants, and more about getting revenge on the people who took his wife from him. I guess over in the Daredevil books, Kingpin really grew to love Typhoid Mary. Weird couple, but go figure. He thinks ORCHIS killed her, but she's actually in the suburbs of Asgard. It's complicated.

This has all been a VERY interesting saga, and I'm hoping they can do justice to the conclusion. It sounds like it's all going to wrap up by July or so. I would definitely recommend parts of these books. But...there are a LOT of books, that's the biggest problem. And there HAVE been some ups and downs. But, the road to the ending has been fun so far.

*Looks over what I wrote* This turned into more of a thing than I originally planned. But, that's what happens when you try to summarize 4 years of X-Men comics. Hopefully, this all made some semblance of sense.
 
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Caldwin

Woobie Destroyer of Worlds
Citizen
*head explodes*

Damn I miss the days when they all lived in a mansion and it was all about the villain of the month. It was also nice when there were only two main X-Men titles and you didn't have to read them both to know what was going on.
 

Daith

Bustin make feel Good!
Citizen
So yeah we are coming to the endpoint of the Krakoan era seemingly. ORCHIS staged a massive plan that not only seemingly killed the majority of Mutants, but like ZakuConvoy said were only teleported to places ORCHIS didn’t know or intend to.

The last mutants on Earth are trying to take out ORCHIS both inside and out. There’s a team in the old Morlock Tunnels trying to sabotage their efforts directly. Another group have reformed with Captain America to make the Unity Squad (Uncanny Avengers title) and are fighting off an imposter Captain Krakoa and his New Mutant Liberation Front. Captain K was an identity Cyclops used to hide the fact he had been resurrected after publicly dying. But Cyke is held prisoner by ORCHIS and the new Captain K is
Evil Hydra Steve

Cable and Bishop are trying to contain another evolutionary humanity offshoot that aren’t homo superior, the Children of the Vault, but I’m not really reading that one to know what’s going on.

Likewise it sounds like the X-Force book has been going with Beast’s slow burn into complete mad scientist with cloning himself over and over with Logan trying to stop the crazy.

Emma has publicly married Tony Frost… ok not going to correct that just because it’s funny. But no Emma married Stark posing as his new assistant under an alias when the ass that currently owns Stark Industries caught Tony trying to slip on Emma’s mutant masking ring back on. Said jackass also is a head honcho of ORCHIS, so Tony has quite a few reasons to side with Mutantkind.

Storm is fending off the ancient wife of Apocalypse on Mars with what refugees are left and the Arrakan mutants still loyal to her. Woof yeah Arrako is another headache. Krakoa is 1/2 of another whole with Arrako being the other. At one point it was the home of Apocalypse and his family before the were shunted into Marvel’s magic realm and such. They came back during a crappy event, caused to much friction with the contemporary mutants and that prompted them to use Arrako to terraform Mars…..

and holy crap the well of this keeps going and going. Haven’t even gotten to Madelyn Pryor retaking Limbo, and having an embassy in NY, where her dark X-Men are trying to rescue other mutants still left.

It’s weird to believe we have been on the Krakoan age for almost 5 years now.
 

Caldwin

Woobie Destroyer of Worlds
Citizen
So what I'm hearing is that I shouldn't even try to think about jumping back on any time soon.
 

ZakuConvoy

Well-known member
Citizen
I mean, you still COULD, but it would be kind of like starting the Lord of the Rings with Return of the King. At least with the very most recent floppies.

And I honestly think parts of this story are rather good. You could try picking up a trade for House/Powers of X, if you want to start from the beginning (I'm not sure how far you got, originally). Or if you want something more recent you can try and read Sins of Sinister, which might be enough to see if you WANT to go on the rest of the ride. Sins of Sinister is basically a Age of Apocalypse-like story, so it's building off of things, but it's also it's own thing. It might be throwing you in at the deep end in some ways, but you might find that you like it.

Nowadays, it's probably easier to read through the big event books to kind of give yourself a idea of the broader story. (House/Powers of X. X of Swords. Inferno. X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine. Avengers/X-Men/Eternals Judgement Day. Sins of Sinister. With the Hellfire Gala Specials sprinkled in between some places.) That way you can kind of hit the high points and see what else might interest you in the wider line. Although, they DO have tons of collections that collect EVERYTHING in reading order, if you want.

But...if you just want to wait until it's over and see what happens afterward, I can't blame you. X-Men is a LOT, sometimes. And we MIGHT be getting a more "back to basics" approach after Krakoa is over, anyway.

If you haven't read it already, I MIGHT suggest Wolverine and the X-Men by Jason Aaron. It's mostly about Wolverine running the school. From the sounds of things, you might like it. Maybe you've already read it, but it might have been something that passed you by. It's a pretty well received run, all things considered. There are other good runs, like Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men and Rick Remender's Uncanny X-Force. It might be easier to read a couple of solid trades, rather than trying to catch right up to the very newest stuff all at once. And there's PLENTY of other past X-Men books to read between when you fell off and the Krakoa era, if you want to try and get back into the X-Men.

I really didn't mean to scare you away with all these plot details. And I'm sorry if I did. But, I'd be lying if I said it WASN'T very complex.


Cable and Bishop are trying to contain another evolutionary humanity offshoot that aren’t homo superior, the Children of the Vault, but I’m not really reading that one to know what’s going on.

Well...
The biggest thing that happened is that one of the Children of the Vault basically got a "vision" that revealed that they're ALL being manipulated by the Dominion. We don't see anything, but the girl realizes they're all being played by this force outside of time.

Other than that, it's mostly the Children brainwashing everyone into thinking they're the biggest superheroes ever for 4 issues (kind of reminds me of the Authority, a bit). And Cable and Bishop blowing stuff up.

I think it's fun. And it casually throws in a few bigger ideas here and there, which I think is fun. Like "Hawk's Pox" a meme-virus so complex that it integrates all other narratives into itself. It doesn't really play into the plot, it's just a cute reference.

But, it's totally skippable. Unless you REALLY love the Children. And I don't think anyone does.

Edit - ugh, what a dumb, ugly way to dispose of poor Banshee.

Well, he actually came back almost immediately. He was...scarred by the experience, but he got resurrected before the Fall.

Then he became a Ghost Rider! Because comics!

 
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Caldwin

Woobie Destroyer of Worlds
Citizen
Well, I see Amazon has some nice collections of the old x-men comics for Kindle. I may just have to re-read the Jim Lee era.
 

Daith

Bustin make feel Good!
Citizen
Woof! Big retcon in the new X-Men Blue special this week.

The results are in! Nightcrawler, Mystique is
not the mother! She’s the Father! So retconning the already awful Drago storyline, Destiny was around during the events as a Maid to Ravens then husband. And lo and behold Irene set the whole situation up. She had Raven get involved with Azazel so she could mimic his genes as Mystique is not a shapeshifter as much as a “gene shaper”. Destiny had a vision that Azazel would have conquered the cosmos unless he believed an heir was around to stop him. But she wanted a child with Raven so she conceived and Raven made herself look pregnant at the same time to convince her then Husband and Azazel.

She immediately told off Azazel and then her Husband found Raven and Irene together. Raven killed him and impersonated him and her disguise until Irene gave birth. And then it plays out similar to what the Drago shows. Irene tells Raven to flee with Kurt, but Raven hides him to go back to Irene only to find her gone already and Kurt gone afterwards too. Mystique and Destiny wouldn’t meet together until 5 years later just as they take in a young Rogue. Afterwards they both went to Xavier and had Irene’s mind completely wiped of Kurt, but Raven wouldn’t let completely go and that’s why she remembered the previous version of events. Xavier also wiped the knowledge from his own mind, but during his recent forced command for all mutants to vacate Earth, Mystiques resistance not only broke his control but the previous memory of events as well.

So overall unless they plan on using this point in a future story. Not too big a change. Though it does make you wonder about other kids.
 

ZacWilliam1

Well-known member
Citizen
It is a retcon but given that

1) This is the Parentage that Claremont wanted for Nightcrawler originally but wasn't allowed to write.

2) The Draco was awful and everything else about the situation was repeatedly told in contradictory and/or nonsensical ways in multiple past tellings and this fixes all that,

I think it's a pretty strongly positive one.

-ZacWilliam, likely the only big difference will be a stronger relationship between Kurt, Raven and Irene.
 


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